Anyone have guesses on why the big empty condos are holding pat at wild high prices?

Which ones, specifically?

ones that have started closings, or others? the ones that have started closings want to work through the people who are in contract, trying to get them as close to their contract price as possible, before lowering prices for remaining units.

some of the other developments (Tempo is a good example havve zero chance of sales right now and are just hoping that when they are closer to completion the economy will be better and they can generate sales then. no reason to lower prices now.

the ones that are in the middle, needing to make payments on construction loans, not just meet sales quotas, and those that have closed or not the backlog in contracts signed, those will be the most interesting.

rarely correct my posts, but or not the backlog should read or do not have the backlog in contracts signed.

About read makes some good points. Another factor is the bank construction loan financing agreement often limits the ability of a sponsor to sell below the price listed in the offering plan without first seeking permission from the bank lender.

If your waiting for developers to lower their prices, don't hold your breath:

City Federal Condominium Auction Ends Abruptly Due To Low Bids.

The owner of the City Federal condo tower abruptly halted an absolute auction of 20 units in the building after just 11 sold, saying the bids were too low.

Condos that had been on the market for $239,000 to $935,000 ended up selling for $80,000 to $320,000.

Atlanta-based Synergy Realty Services LLC exercised its right to end the auction at any time, even before the 20 condos National Auction Group had advertised it would be selling. A two-bedroom, two-bathroom condo on the 16th floor selling for $80,000 proved to be the last straw.

http://blog.al.com/businessnews/2009/05/city_federal_auction_end_abrup.html

a few years ago, a devleoper by the name REMI held an auction for a project they had in Hoboken called Velocity. They shut the auction down at the half way point. From what I heard, they converted the remaining units to rentals.

alpine:
"If your waiting for developers to lower their prices, don't hold your breath:"

Am I lost in space? I think the article you posted is just proof that you should hold your breath!. The auction was a complete disaster for the owners. Good luck for all the neighboring properties. Looks like massive markdowns and bank repossesions are coming in that community. I guess they learned where the market will clear and can't deal with it. Just because behind the scenes developers, bankers and mezz financiers aren't happy with price discovery doesn't mean that will change the clearing price.

bank posessions for who? The building is empty! And I just went to the website for the Velocity project I mentioned above, and apprently the domain name is vacant. I wonder what happnended to it...

Many developers have agreements with their lenders that stipulate price per square foot. They have to renegotiate those deals before they can start a fire sale. You better believe they are trying to convince the banks to renegotiate, but the banks are probably dragging their feet. Nobody wants to realize losses or even diminished expectations.

whatever happnened to Quinn's crazy proposal for the city to buy all the unsold condos and convert it to "middle class" housing?

Alpine: who the hell is Quinn?

Christine, Speaker.

Alpine, truly how is a developer who was shocked by low bids a call for me not to hold my breath?

To answer the questions posed early...I truly just mean any and all that are still asking in the $1400-1600+/psf range. They don't seem to have even adjusted to 20%, when the truth of it is that they would need to reduce 30% to sell, as the financing that was propping them up is gone... In other words, its a harder fall from marketing to the 10% down crowd than it would be for coops per se.

Alpine I can't help but call you an idiot. Again. WTF would you post something from Alabama?

Maybe specifically I am talking about condo buildings less than 70% sold... I mean what is their end game?

Was it not clear that I was talking about Manhattan... And if Birmingham and California are such great analogs, why do you appear to be a Manhattan bull at -20%?

My point behind my question is really how can people like you begin to call this a bottom in Manhattan with so many condo buildings less than 70% sold? No effing way.

suburbanite:
I would if I could! Doesn't change the fact that you are a shill. Let it go, what did they freeze your account rebnyidiots.com?
If you make some dumbass claim, defend your position, don't change topic, otherwise, don't post.

I don't have to defend my positon. liquidpaper just did it for me in my "Prices are not down 20%" thread.

How did you win your point by someone posting an unrealistic ask, when earlier people blew up your arguments with actual sales? Honestly, what makes you so stupid?

your an idiot. If your so smart, then post sales to back up your outrageous claims.

Alpine: you fucking idiot!. That is an "ask" price, not a sale. JC, WTF!. I have an 8mm mansion in Florida. If I list it for 16mm, did prices go up 100%. Turn out the lights, go to bed.

alpine, off to the dark side for you? prices are down. way down. you think those last listing prices are low, wait until you see the closing prices that will come out this quarter. i was feeling some positive mojo for you today went you admitted you wanted to dump the NJ f****r (btw, SE generally doesn't seem to care), but you lost me here.

Why do I need to post sales when an Elliman report just confirmed median resale prices were down 20% in Q1 and people have given you example after example. Then you counter with an unrealistic ask. Is the joke that you're really a 10 year old? Why would you say -20% is my "outrageous claim"? Do you know what that word means? Its neither my (sole) claim, nor outrageous if its in a published report you child.

let me just emphasize that you can't rely on asking prices. Take this apt. below in the LES. I'm using it ans an example since I used to be very good friends with the seller. It's listed at $669k. Original ask was $850k. But as someone who lived only a frw floors below in the same line, I'll tell you right now that $850k was a pipe dream. There was no way she ever stood a chance of getting it, even at the peak of the market. So while the decline in the asking price was significant, it means nothing.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/379816-coop-417-grand-street-lower-east-side-new-york

This market has clearly declined 20% from attainable asks of Q1 2008... You are in dream land. People above have shown you actual sales vs. current asks. That's not a pipe dream if a similar unit actually sold. Why do you care so much?

I have yet to see an apt. sell for 40% below it's last purchase price. I'm still waiting. Find an example below 96th St. and I'lll shut up.

Are you a mental patient? Didn't you say you would shut up if someone illustrated -20% on another thread? And then multiple people did? Take your medication and go to sleep. Let the adults talk.

Can we answer the original question? I only know about the 3 large condo projects in my nabe. Linden - now that most, if not all purchasers have received their deposits back, the project is in deep trouble. I suspect the devs are now in talks with lenders to find some way out of the situation before putting apts back on market at lower prices. This puts the control of the proj. up in the air because I suspect the dev. don't have money to finish - kinda catch22. Rushmore - I think Extell has a little bit more of a financial cushion, so I think they're just dawdling on putting apts back on market at lower prices. Harrison - ditto with Related.

Sure nyc10023...we think it really depends on the building too. We've seen at least some evidence of "shadow pricing" over at 20 Pine, where the units are listed at high asks (or not listed at all) and then sold at a significant discount, as well as 90 William where a true 2BR, 2BA just sold for $875k:

http://curbed.com/archives/2009/05/12/20_pine_the_discounts.php
http://downtowny.blogspot.com/2009/05/90-william-st-bewilliam.html

-DT

10023, with Extell and Related, i don't think it's their financial cushion. I think they are hoping that buyers will perceive them as strong players who don't need to take this shit from uppity buyers. Each development generally has an llc behind it, which doesn't particularly care if it goes bankrupt. Bankruptcy wouldn't matter greatly to the developers, but they'd like to get their money up front ASAP so they can siphon off whatever those stupid lending docs allowed for before they go BK. And the banks aren't pushing because they don't want the potential losses on their books. Who gets screwed?

They'll put the listings back on after they get through those who are already in contract, at a huge discount.

downtownser, it's worth mentioning though that the A line at 90 William has the most overstated square footage imaginable: if you add up every closet space, corridor and nook imaginable you probably get to a grand total of (drumroll) 750 sqft, and it's listed as 1156. Not worth 700K IMHO.

http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/jon-gollinger-staging-a-better-auction

Look at Grosvenor House (22 West 15th) which had original sales in 1989/90 till ?Citibank? pulled the plug and auctioned most of the rest (I attended that auction).

PHA sold for $515,000 12/22/1989
PHD sold for $521,500 1/16/1990
22A sold for $499,000 and closed 7/3/92
22D sold for $504,000 and closed 3/8/90
20A sold for $489,000 and closed 12/7/89

21A sold at the auction for $365,000 and closed 7/3/92
21D sold at the auction for $350,000 and closed 4/8/92
20D sold at the auction for $314,500 and closed 4/8/92

The setback in the building is at the 18th floor, so the 18th floor, so they have setback terraces. 19,20,21,22 and PH are essentially the same.

11F sold for 203,000 and closed 1/11/1990
15F sold at the auction for $130,00 and closed 9/2/92

Rhino - we'll say it again - Which. Buildings. Are. You. Talking. ABOUT....

This is the first time you've said anything. I. Am. Speaking. BROADLY.

While the lenders might be hesitant to lower the asking prices, it is clearly in their best interests. The real issue, IMO, would like be the equity holders not willing to lower the prices. They have the pricing control, but their equity is essentially worthless in the current market. There is not much incentive for them to lower the price if all proceeds go to the lenders. The lenders should be stepping in and taking over these projects, but that is a headache most of them do not want. I sense a great opportunity for an operating firm to come in and solicit lenders to reclaim the developments and they will run it for them

They owe a lot of money.

The lenders don't want to "mark to market" the losses. they are contingent assests only in the loosest sense of the term, but they are hoping that the economy will improve and that buyers will come forward, averting the bankruptcy process. false hope, but one they are clining to.

I meant financial cushion from their current projects. Harrison & Rushmore both have closings, so one presumes (I haven't been inside either) that they have finished the project to a certain extent and have some $ in the bank to cover interest charges & the remainder of the units. While the holding cos. are all standalone LLCs, Extell & Related have other projects - might not be in their best interest to let one fail because it'll have a knockon effect. Linden is as dead as a dodo. Hopefully, it gets finished enough so that it's protected from the elements & vandals. It's not in the interest of our nabe to have a decaying carcass of a building.

The less they've sold the more flexible they are. Some sponsor are even offering to hold the mortgage with market rates and more flexible financing. Those that aren't are more willing to negotiate the back end. It's almost standard for them to pick up all closing costs. Forget the ask...it's all about the negotiation.

"Am I lost in space? I think the article you posted is just proof that you should hold your breath!. The auction was a complete disaster for the owners. "

Welcome to the bizzaro world of alpine.

There everyone wanted to rent means that sales prices will rise (he actually tried a logical proof on that).... so, of course, developers not being able to sell also means prices will rise.

And, of course, prices haven't decline in the first place in his world.