I agree with jason10006

where is the comparison to harlem in the links.

iamlooking, you can compare each area from the "Neighborhood Data" section in the center column of http://topics.nytimes.com/top/classifieds/realestate/locations/newyork/newyorkcity/manhattan/index.html

From the NYT real estate homepage, you can find links to the same data for the provinces.

wow thanks alanhart.

As I said stop bashing Harlem.

i just read about muggings on the upper east side (80's) to women...it happens all over.

My particular theory is that people who mug might all or at least mostly come from Harlem, or the Bronx, or other "scary" places, but they ride the subway to areas with easier pickings...ie more people walking around with better stuff to steal. Also, they don't want to rob the gentrifiers in there own neighborhoods because there is a much greater chance the person being robbed or a witness to the robbing will recognize them as the kid down the block.

This perverse sort of argument has been used to oppose many a subway extension, and not just in NYC.

In LA, otherwise liberal areas like Santa Monica have for years vehemently protested the extension of LA subway from Wilshire all the way to the beach precisely because they do not want undesirables coming from east and central LA and causing problems. They cite as evidence the fact that robbing, muggings, and vandalism spiked enormously in North Hollywood, Universal City, Studio City and Tuluca Lake immediately following the opening of the Universal City and North Hollywood stations, and dropped precipitously literally THE DAY the valley line was closed for repairs, and spiked again literally the DAY the line was opened again.

As far as people in the wealthy parts of LA are concerned, this is proof positive that subways from poorer areas to nicer ones lead to crime.

Food for thought.

PS, the same sort of stats is also true for when new freeways are built too....one story I read showed how bank robberies skyrocketed in areas along the newest freeways in socal as soon as they were opened.

There's some logic to that in the case of freeways. Not because they act as a conduit for people of the criminal classes, but because it's much harder to identify and stop a car on a freeway vs. surface roads.

For subway systems, your line-opening-closing-opening stats notwithstanding (post link please), it seems to rely on the notion that only middle-class and wealthier people have cars, which hasn't been true for decades.

also, expains why certain suburban towns dont want apartment buildings coming into their neighborhood.

Here are the neighborhoods sorted by crime index.
The only correlation i can think of is Better Nightlife = More Crime

Roosevelt Island 24
Washington Hts 60
Sugar Hill 70
Inwood 72
Hamilton Hts 85
Carnegie Hill 92
Stuy town 99
Morningside Hts 102
Midtown East 104
Midtown 104
Harlem 104
UES 106
Financial Dist 112
Kips Bay 116
Tribeca 117
Civic Center 117
Battery Park 117
Clinton 123
East Harlem 125
Nolita 133
Manhattan Valley 133
LES 133
East Vill 133
Chinatown 133
UWS 134
Union Square 134
Noho 134
Lincoln Sq 134
Greenwich Vill 134
Gramercy Park 134
Flatiron 134
Sutton Pl 140
West Village 141
Midtown South 153
Koreatown 153
Garment Dist 153
Chelsea 153
Hudson Sq 164
Tudor City 166
Murray Hill 166
Soho 174
Little Italy 174
Times Sq 176

Interesting data, iamlooking. I am glad to see that my neighborhood ranks fairly low. Where did you get this from?

Did you cut each stat from each neighborhood profile, or does NYT have it rounded up somewhere?

from nytimes link provided above by alanhart

yeah went thru each neighborhood manually.

Anybody have any idea why Sutton Place has a 140?

Hudson Square has close to zero nightlife. Those are somewhat surprising numbers but "crime index" has a pretty vague definition and includes car thefts.

Still I have a pretty good idea why Roosevelt Island has such a low one. Try making your quick getaway from there.

iamlooking, i applaud your efforts, thank you.

OK, where I live is dull as dirt, but it's safe.

xellam, Tudor City and Murray Hill aren't looking so hot, either.

Where is Hudson Square located?

What needs to be considered that in many neighborhoods, the people just take it for granted that they will be robbed, their car broken into, get lightly assaulted... and don't report it. In more afluet neighborhoods, the police will respond faster and the people will be calling for even some very minor crimes that are just not worth the wasted stats nor the police time.

Generally around Hudson and Houston.

"What needs to be considered that in many neighborhoods, the people just take it for granted that they will be robbed, their car broken into, get lightly assaulted..."

No, actually the highest crime rates of all in NYC are in the poorest areas outside Manahattan, and in fact in parts up upper Manhattan NOT listed by iamlooking.

iamlooking, while I applaud what you did - if in fact you took the time to look through ALL the individual web pages - you in fact messed up. If you see there is a drop down menu for most neighborhoods - so in fact for "Harlem" they have three different zip codes. So my zip code, 10027, actually has a higher crime rate (125) than the default Harlem zip code. I think Washington Heights has for zip codes - and one of them has a MUCH higher crime rate than any of the ones you listed- like over 200. You listed the nice "West of Broadway" part of WH.

However, you make the same overall point I was making. Some parts of Upper Manhattan have lower crime rates than the hip neighborhoods, including violent crime. However, some parts have much higher crime rates than what you have posted, while parts of manhattan below 96th have lower crime rates than what you post for them as well - it depends on what zip code you select. (For example, 10006 in Tribeca has lower crime than 10007 - not surprising, since the bars and restauraunts are mostly above WTC.)

So the lesson is, look at the crime rate by Zip code if you use the NYT site, not just neighborhood name. And in my case, I looked at those for the nearby zip codes as well (the one I walk to and from the subway to everyday.) My part of harlem is safer than when I lived in HK by a lot, but other zip codes in upper manhattan would be much more dicey than either.

malthus,

In HS, they don't have many clubs, although, I was a regular @ SOBs :-).