Is it time to buy in Hell's Kitchen??? OPINIONS!

no. downward spiral. viscious.

Jeez, EJO, why the dual threads? And please, chill out. You're making me nervous with the CAPS and frantic punctuation!!!???!!!!

Um, if anyone on this board had found a good buy, do you really think we'd be advertising it around? People here are shrewd, not morons.

there was somebody who recently did a thread about walking away from their deposit in a similar HK situation -- maybe cut a deal through them?

Its not time to buy anywhere in NYC.

when will be a time to buy in NYC?

The hoods that are going to get hit the hardest are those areas that are vulnerable to an uptick in crime, lack neighborhood services, and shot up so much while inventory was scarce. I would put Hell's Kithchen right up there in that category.

EJO, only if it's the real proper Hell's Kitchen, i.e. from 50th to 59th, west of 6th Ave. NOT West 42-47 as the brokers claim. Interesting neighborhood. Potential for all those walk-ups to be sold in a few years to developers. All owners will make a lot of money.

lr10021, really? "lack neighborhood services"? 8th and 9th avenues lack services? Restaurants? Ten minutes walk from theater district? What are you talking about?

Stakan, I am speaking of Schools, Museums, Institutions, Parks, etc. These are neighborhood anchors. Restaraunts are a dime a dozen in the city. If times get a bit rough I would rather be 20 minutes walk from the Theater District and a stone's throw to Central Park, The Met, and PS6.

Museums: MOMA for one. Museums are anchored to VERY few neighborhoods. And you ARE a stone's throw away from Central Park (59th!) Schools?
Are we talking about the same geography?

"only if it's the real proper Hell's Kitchen, i.e. from 50th to 59th, west of 6th Ave. NOT West 42-47 as the brokers claim."

I never new the Time Warner Center bordered Hell's Kitchen, Nor did CPS. Where are you getting your "proper Hell's Kitchen" definition. Maybe you are right?

I'm confused too. I think Hell's Kitchen is a pretty great neighborhood. I don't know that it's a good time to buy, however.

Ir10021: from books and info before the brokerbabble. The brokers and developers stretch and distort the neighborhoods when in suits them. I'd never ever set foot on far west 40s no matter what.
Proper HK is a small area with a lot of character and sense of the city. Sort of what like Chelsea used to be before the bridge-and-tunnel clubs infestation.

I used to live on West 54 off 9th, and enjoyed it. Walked everywhere, and all subway lines near by. All convenience services on every block, and good places to eat and have a drink. I love it.

Stakan, there are some really nice quieter parts in the West 50's on 9th and 10th which I think have a lot going for them (it reminds me of Turtle Bay before it went development crazy). For some reason, I call that area Clinton.

The West 40's I consider Hell's Kitchen. Can someone please set me straight>??

if you go by where the irish gang types hung out, the west 40s is definitely hell's kitchen and always has been. i love to blame brokers for name changes as much as the next guy but in this case it just isn't true.

and not to get all wiki on you but:
the name first appeared in print on September 22, 1881 when a New York Times reporter went to the West 30s with a police guide to get details of a multiple murder there. He referred to a particularly infamous tenement at 39th Street and 10th Avenue as "Hell's Kitchen," and said that the entire section was "probably the lowest and filthiest in the city." According to this version, 39th Street between 9th and 10th Avenues became known as Hell's Kitchen and the name was later expanded to the surrounding streets. Another version ascribes the name's origins to a German restaurant in the area known as Heil's Kitchen, after its proprietors. But the most common version traces it to the story of Dutch Fred The Cop, a veteran policeman, who with his rookie partner, was watching a small riot on West 39th Street near 10th Avenue. The rookie is supposed to have said, "This place is hell itself," to which Fred replied, "Hell's a mild climate. This is Hell's Kitchen."

Thanks Jason, I thought I wasn't going crazy. So I reiterate...
Hell's Kitchen is still going down hard.

Of all the up-and-coming neighborhoods, HK is a tricky one. It looks AMAZINGLY better than it did just 5 years ago, but it's still VERY, very up-and-coming. Just stroll around the area beyond the store fronts along the major Avenues and you will see that your $1M apt is located yards away from tenements, group homes, public agencies catering to the residents of such familities/housing, etc.

It COULD BE rather centrally located, depending on how far you are from the trains, but you might find other areas to be a lot more convenient because the trains don't go that far west & it can be quite a walk from 8th Av to, say, 9th or 10th--let alone 11th.

It's a GREAT rental location, I think, but I would be nervous purchasing a unit.

Relative to other neighborhoods in the city, I think HK has among the best in terms of upside potential (many years from now, of course). This is because it has for a while been the new gay frontier- for those priced out of Chelsea, that is. The real ironic thing is that although society at large finds gays disgusting and wants to treat them as second class citizens (e.g., Proposition 8), they sure as heck want to live among them! So the gays gentrify a rough neighborhood, the dual-income earning married white straight people swoop in, buy up all the property, and price the gays out once again. Rinse and repeat.

"although society at large finds gays disgusting and wants to treat them as second class citizens (e.g., Proposition 8), they sure as heck want to live among them! So the gays gentrify a rough neighborhood, the dual-income earning married white straight people swoop in, buy up all the property, and price the gays out once again. Rinse and repeat."

Open mouth...insert foot...rinse & repeat.

I agree Waverly !!Hejiranyc sounds like a moron when he/she says something like that! WAKE UP ITS 2009 in NYC!!!

> when will be a time to buy in NYC?

Do a search, tons of threads on this. Outside of a few folks (who also said buy LAST year), most folks are saying at least 6 months, maybe more.

"Hell's Kitchen" is 10036 -- roughly the West 40s. The West 50s in 10019 are more properly called "Clinton." Both are "Midtown West."

ali r.
{downtown broker, who lives in the West 50s}

As I've said before, never get your neighborhood info from a broker. ;-)

Clinton is a name they made up so they wouldn't have to say "Hell's Kitchen". And it not only extended into the W 50s, it used to go HIGHER. Lincoln Center was built partially to clear up the HK slums. Note that West Side Story was filmed in the 60s...

And everyone I've ever known who lived in the W50s said "I live in Hell's Kitchen".