"Wells Fargo Rode the Stagecoach from Hell"

"They referred to subprime loans made in minority communities as ghetto loans and minority customers as 'those people have bad credit', 'those people don't pay their bills' and 'mud people,' " Mr. Paschal said in his affidavit."

Lovely.

"We have worked extremely hard to make homeownership possible for more African-American borrowers," wrote Kevin Waetke, a spokesman for Wells Fargo Home Mortgage. "We absolutely do not tolerate team members treating our customers or others disrespectfully or unfairly, or who violate our ethics and lending practices."

Well, I suppose that depends upon how one defines "ethics." Frankly I'm shocked to hear a bank claiming they had any such thing.

I would be interested to see the credit scores and downpayments offered by race and income. This could be a "smoking gun" case which I have wanted.

whatever happened to the guy who posted the other week in the NY Times thread about foreclosures in minority neighborhoods who tried to justify that banks are nto racist? I bet that guy works for a bank...

"We have worked extremely hard to make homeownership possible for more African-American borrowers," wrote Kevin Waetke, a spokesman for Wells Fargo Home Mortgage.

I think that's the problem in a nutshell: bending over backwards to accommodate people who had no business buying homes in the first place.

I take it you didn't read the article, Matt.

Jason, here's the Times article. It references a lawsuit in Baltimore, but doesn't give the caption for the suit. You might want to contact the author and ask for the caption and the case number. Many courts are on-line now, and you should be able to access the court filings and read them. I don't know if they PDF all the exhibits to the affidavits, which is where you might get some particularly good info, but i can't see why not.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/07/us/07baltimore.html?hp=&pagewanted=all

"I think that's the problem in a nutshell: bending over backwards to accommodate people who had no business buying homes in the first place."

Did banks also bend over backwards when they red lined black neighborhoods?

"Did banks also bend over backwards when they red lined black neighborhoods?"

Of course not. Back in those days they were more responsible about lending.

"I think that's the problem in a nutshell: bending over backwards to accommodate people who had no business buying homes in the first place. "

Matt, you CLEARLY did not read the article. The contention of the suit is that Blacks who QUALIFIED, based on credit scores and income, for conforming or normal jumbo loans were nonetheless steered into sub-prime loans, and that this practice happened far more to blacks than to similar whites, and that all of this was intentional. What about that leads you to say that these 'people who had no business buying homes in the first place"? Surely you don't think black people should not buy homes?

Try reading the articles first, THEN comment.

Jason, I was just playing Devil's Advocate.

Matt, on the stagecoach to or from hell?

i'll probably get crap for this, but your comment about responsible lending was fairly funny.

Matt doesn't like reading anything that doesn't support his views. It's much harder to think about problems than it is to assume you have all the answers - too much work for our friend Matt.

"We just went right after them," said Ms. Jacobson, who is white and said she was once the bank's top-producing subprime loan officer nationally. "Wells Fargo mortgage had an emerging-markets unit that specifically targeted black churches, because it figured church leaders had a lot of influence and could convince congregants to take out subprime loans."

Also, the company put out bounties for subprime loans in that community.

To be fair, the banks paid more for subprime loans PERIOD.

But its pretty damming if say all else equal blacks or latinos got screwed 2 or 3 times as often.

My parents bought an expensive home in an exclusive neighborhood in CA just before the boom. They have very WASPy names and had done most of their mortgage process over the phone and via fax.

My mother reported that when my parents showed up at the closing, the bank rep almost passed out when he saw that people with high incomes and such excellent credit were black. I wonder what sort of rate they would have gotten if they had first gone to the bank in person?

lookingforhome's story about his/her parents is anecdotal, but not at all unusual across markets, including the market for residential real estate loans.

who said matt knows how to read? he has his private secretary read him the posts here and take dictation.

""We just went right after them," said Ms. Jacobson, who is white "

To those who chided me about my "the white man in the suit said" commentary, I guess you were right. It was a white woman, not a man.

who said "the man" can't be a woman? but point well taken. and i agreed back then, just wanted some more info.

I have a very waspish name and no one ever thinks I am black over the phone. It has DEFINITELY surprised job interviewers. Many times, visibly. So I can imagine.

But my favorite - and I point this out to white friends and co-workers BEFORE it happens when we go to a meal - is when I put down the credit card for the bill (especially if its the cirporate amex.) I say "Watch - the waiter will give the check to be signed to you [the white guy.]" 99.99999999999999999% of the time it happens, EVEN if its my junior, who is 15 years younger than me. They give the card and bill to him to sign, even though I put the credit card down.

And BTW the white guy in question is always like "Wow! You are right!"

but, jason, to be fair, it happens to anyone who doesn't match the profile of who should be spending such and such on a card.

I'm so casual, i go into restaurants in shorts frequently (you're out and about...). I used to feel defensive and I used to be viewed with relative suspicion, but now i just take no prisoners and nobody has treated me badly (well, once, but they recall my reaction).

But it happens when I am in suit that is more expensive than the guy i am with, and the white guy I am with is NOT in a suit and much younger. It happens ALWAYS.

It even happens when the white guy in question is in SHORTS and I am in a suit. Always.

"it happens to anyone who doesn't match the profile of who should be spending such and such on a card."

So you agree, waiters are racist because they assume black people should not have corporate Amexes.

Always is right. White before black, the man before the woman, older before younger.

jason, my friend, i agree with you 150%, maybe 200%. i get some moderate discrimination because I don't present my income, but over time i've gotten pretty good at overcoming that. but i've also had time, and less to overcome.

We've had dear friends, both asian and black (i hope this is pc, most of my friends prefer it), who have told me horror stories. i don't think your statement is quite correct, however, i don't think waiters think at all whether black people "should" have corporate Amex's. Something rather more vile.

I hate when I'm the one who has to put the AmEx down after a meal. Would be nice if someone else did it for a change. Jason? Take me out for dinner?

Oh, what I say is minot but it does tie in with the thread's theme...and literally, I kid you not, i have had had white people ask me point blank (not potential creditors, FRIENDS in casual conversations) if I had bad credit because they heard black people have bad credit. Really. They heard this. From god knows where. So they ask ME to my face if this is true of me. Can you believe that? People I KNOW. Like "did you see the Yahnkees game? Oh, and do you have bad credit like all black people?"

Jason, you need better friends. I didn't even realize there was such a stereotype about blacks and bad credit.

matt, if you always put down the AmEx and you feel manipulated you're a fool who needs to learn to say no. unless of course it's your business card which gets paid for by the co.

i'm happy to put down my AmEx when i know i'm among friends. my friends are lovely, they offer a huge amount to me that money can't define, and if once in awhile i treat, they know i do it without any strings attached. and they'd be at my bedside at the hospital if i needed company, at least once in awhile.

Neither did I until then.

trust me, matt lost the amex card years ago. as well as the visa and mc.

excellent point cc. and well he should.

for matt, its not about don't leave home without it...its more about don't leave home. stay there. stay away.

CC, for someone who hates me you seem to really enjoy thinking about me.

no...i don't enjoy thinking about you, nor seeing your obnoxious, pretentious mumblings. you represent everything that disgusts me about this city. you are an embarrassment and should try to keep your thoughts to yourself. everything you say is useless and often misleading.

cc, your last post is just so wrong. Each sentence should begin with a capital letter.

Back on topic Jason, a few months back I was complaining to some white friends about having just been followed around by the security guard at Rickey's and they were shocked, just shocked. I kid you not, one said, "Can't they tell your socio-economic class by looking at you?"