20 Pine Rules and Regulations

Unless the concept of having such a set of rules is in the Bylaws, it's possible that in order to restrict the use of a common area that the Condo would need a vote of a "super-majority" of the outstanding common interest in the Building. As such, it is possible the the Board has no authority to make such a set of rules to begin with.

As a renter, what would be the mechanism for enforcing the fines?

I don't want to sound unkind in any way, but the descriptions you give seem completely reasonable to me, notanewyorker. My friends at 88 Greenwich, for example, have the same problem: The terrace lounge is far too small and people have to fight for space. But one should have known that, though, prior to purchasing or renting.

Also, the rules and the fees... They are not only reasonable but also common in NYC condos, and they are usually good for your bldg., because people do highly inappropriate things when they are drunk. They DO have to close the terrace at night (or provide adequate 24-hour security--i.e., higher CCs for the owners), or they'd be held liable for anything (suicides, murder, rape, fire, etc.) that might transpire after hours. No glass/alcohol/smoking in common areas (unless you rent the space out), not allowing your dog to releave him/herself at the bldg. entrance, etc. are also highly typical rules. ALL of the NYC bldgs. I have lived in have had these rules--and more. The fee of $500 is also not out of the ordinary, from what I have seen.

Whether they have the legal right to impose these rules or not might be controversial and up to each condo, but I want you to know two things: (1) these things are common; and (2) in the end, these rules usually help YOU, the resident.

Finally, I ABSOLUTELY hate it when some dork starts smoking (especially cigars!) on the terrace... That's totally unpleasant (don't forget, it's NYC!), although it might be an effective way for you to get people off the terrace...

Apparently most people only ever visit a common terrace or rooftop garden/deck twice during their timecliving at a place. Once when they first view and once when they are selling.

I must admit in my experience you could basically have common outdoor space to yourself because it's usually one of those amenities that is little used. 20 pine is bucking the trend. Must be a fidi thing because the only utilized terrace I ever saw was at 15 broad when I went to a kids bday party there.

Btw the sponsor may still control bye laws. The length of time after closing before a board independent of the sponsor can form etc will be in the offering plan. These could bevthe sponsor rules with no board yet formed.

while at first glance it may seem nuts but it really is logical. all rooftops close at a certain time, there is no way they can stay open 24 hours and not really something you would want as a owner/resident. the smoking.. well i think we all know the scoop there- most building do not allow it in common areas (thank goodness). not saying you should break the rules but something tells me if you are quietly having a mixed drink, not sure you would be fined- i'm sure it is to keep people from getting drunk and doing something stupid (and expensive). the dog thing... well i am amazed when i see a dog relieving him/herself on a luxury condo entrance!!!!! i have a dog and feel it is my responsibility to walk the dog a few extra steps!!!
crowds, well when you look at the size then think of the number of people in the building the math speaks for itself !

I had a private terrace in a building with a roof terrace and I HATED smokers and drinkers...because every single saturday and sunday morning I would find dozens of cigaretter butts on my terrace, and sometimes my friends dog would eat them. HATE smokers.

divvie, think one of the reasons the rooftop is so popular is many of the apartments are ssssooooo dark. it's like living in a cave

The terraces in the new FiDi buildings (20 Pine, District etc.) are much better than the terraces that we've seen in many older buildings (e.g. they have nice lounge chairs, cabanas etc.) so I'm not surprised that the 20 Pine terrace (which is comically small for a building the size of 20 Pine) is overused.

I agree with nyc212 that rules prohibiting smoking and drinking and those limiting the hours of terrace use are pretty common. Rules limiting the number of guests (that are actually enforced), I think are more unusual, but given the overcrowding at 20 Pine, not too surprising. All of these issues though stem from the problem of the terrace size. If you had a large enough terrace, no one really cares if you're in some corner smoking or if your 5 drunk friends are having a bunch of wine away from everyone else.

notanewyorker - how were the rules communicated to you? Are they posted somewhere?

http://downtowny.blogspot.com

What is the limit on guest? just curious and wondering how they can enforce that..

I have friends in a condo. They have rules. I think the rules are good. But when they get so specific like no dog crapping in the building, then you know this isn't the condo for you.

I agree - dog crapping in the building is ok as long as it's om the common areas, elevators, your own apt. But I draw the line at letting you dog crap in someone else's apt.

qny rules about people pooping?

We have similar rules as well, but apart from a no-smoking policy (rather than allowing smoking in specific areas) they seem to be mostly winked at. I've taken a glass of wine to the roof and no one cared. They want to prevent idiots from having a ton of booze-guzzling guests up on the roof for all-night parties; toe the line and be respectful if anyone calls you on breaking the rules, but I wouldn't worry overmuch.