Are we really libertarians?

i have always thought of myself as being one. having said that, what does a libertarian advocate who believes that government is rigged against the common citizen and for special interests? shouldn't there be the equivalent of affirmative action to even the scales that have been so biased for so long?

Never vote for a libertarian, they'd only quit....

Libertarianism is a term used by a broad spectrum of political philosophies which seek to maximize individual liberty and minimize or even abolish the state. Libertarians embrace viewpoints across that spectrum ranging from pro-property to anti-property, from minimal government to openly anarchist. The word libertarian is an antonym of authoritarian.

That said, many of us are concerned that gov't may be over-reaching in it's scope

i would agree, but don't know what their (the gov't) or our alternative is. we saw what happened with letting the market rule.

liberatrians like Ron Paul are crazy. They basically want to abolish 99% of the government and shrink it down to the size of a seed.

cc Bill Clinton lit the fire and George Bush told the fire department to not intervene.
Not sure which was worse.

like any other ism this can be spun in many directions. but i can't envision a recent administration that was more intrusively involved in the daily existence of the citizenry that W's. talk about government overreaching.

yes, r., i'll agree that some recent developments are probably on the same scale. particularly as BO kept the same general framework as the last administration.

is this too political? r., maybe you should start a thread on political issues. for those things that don't fit comfortably into the economic links thread. i can't imagine that anyone could find fault with a dedicated thread. although, of course, liertarianism has great implications for the economy, but just a thought.

A.R. An interesting idea... I'm not the most organized of individuals. I guess I preach chaos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwmhZUMnbdc

liberatrians like Ron Paul are crazy.
Many of his followers certainly are. I'm undecided if he is or the camera makes him out to be. I go back and forth on it...

"liberatrians like Ron Paul are crazy. They basically want to abolish 99% of the government and shrink it down to the size of a seed."

more like 50% to 75%. Do you think Libertarians are against having Police forces and Fire Departments?

right now i'm finding Ron Paul oddly compelling. which disturbs me on SOOO many levels.

Liberatrians like Ron Paul are crazy
Well if he is, maybe it's ok to have one like that to shake up gov't and keep things interesting. But keep in mind Stiglitz is a supporter....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG2PUZoukfA&feature=PlayList&p=A970EF034FA9BBB9&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1

OK, i feel good about myself again. Stiglitz is my favorite. Absolutely favorite.

Ron Paul , the doctor on health care...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG8MHYNY4Xs

when most talk of 'libertarian' don't they just mean fiscally conservative/socially liberal

when most talk of 'libertarian' don't they just mean fiscally conservative/socially liberal

For me it means gov't must be justified
so yes to a fire dept and police dept, and an army
and no to welfare for farmers, unemployment insurance and consumer protections...

it's a mixed bag

and for some, like me, it's no to avoidable intrusions. both economically and politically. and my definition of avoidable is probably much different than many othes.

I have been called that. Loosely, it is when you believe in fiscal conservatism but you really don't care about interferring in the social issues of others.... I think crushing capitalism is stupid and I really have no tolerance for a perpetual welfare state. That said -- I have no problem with ANY two people marrying one another as long as they are both 18 yo+++. It is hard to find a balance which is why the pendulum may swing... most are centric...

i like that: no to avoidable intrusions.

going out a limb: the police dept and the fire dept are quite different to me than the army. how much more evidence do we need that times have changed? lets have special forces, the submarines, pieces of the air force and lets see happens. of course, the first thing that happens is millions more unemployed.

lets have special forces, the submarines, pieces of the air force and lets see happens. of course

here i disagree, military and economic power go hand in hand. China's no dummy, why do you think they are pouring all that money into defense? Of course one hast to pick their battles wisely. Speaking softly and carrying a big stick doesn't mean hitting everyone on the head with it. They just have to think you might....

or what?

Isn't Bloomberg a libertarian? I think I may be as well. I am definitely not aligned with whatever crackpot party aboutready roots for.

"Isn't Bloomberg a libertarian?"

No one who went along with eminent domain being used for a private development can ever be considered to be a libertarian.

manhattanfox...

Couldn't have said it better myself....

Now if we could just get more than 0.5% to vote that way

I don't understand why anyone would say that Ron Paul is/sounds crazy? What's wrong with a government being asked to live within it's means? At least he makes me think about what I want from government which is more than I can say about anyone else in gov't.

"Liberatrians like Ron Paul are crazy. They basically want to abolish 99% of the government and shrink it down to the size of a seed."

No.

They (we) basically want to restore government to the size and spectrum that the original framers of the Constitution intended.

Libertarians are radical communists.

I'm a liberal, btw.

Where's johngalt to weigh in?!

It's not like this financial meltdown was the result of a bunch of freewheeling capitalists. The housing bubble was also created by a Fed and Congress that created incentives for reckless behavior (and continues to).
All the players in the mortgage run up and meltdown were acting rationally based on the conditions created by the Government and Fed, and every taxpayer funded golden parachute, foreclosure moritorium and mortgage writedown encourages the next bubble.

All the players in the mortgage run up and meltdown were acting rationally
Dick Fuld , Chuck Prince & Ace Greenberg, Han Greenberg lost a ton of money... not exactly rationale

1. It is rational to gamble if the odds are in your favor. This doesn't mean you can't lose.
2. What was the net worth of financial execs in 1999 and how does it compare to their net worth in 2009?

1) http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/05/05/overconfidence-and-the-financial-crisis/
2) A lot less

forget the money...they went from master of the universe to total public humiliation. having never experienced either side of that equation, I can only guess how it must feel. i'm sure eliot spitzer could give us a little insight.

"Libertarians are radical communists."

That is the stupidest thing i have ever heard and only confirms Gallups poll that Liberals are a dying breed....

In fact, they are the exact opposite but why let facts get in the way since making them up is so much more fun....

nobody is 100% anything

very good point.

Here is a hint of how Fuld can live with the loss and humiliation. Boy, I bet he regrets ever getting involved in finance!

Florida real estate records show that Mr Fuld, who led the bank for 14 years until it collapsed in mid-September, transferred ownership of the couple's 3.3-acre seaside home in the state's Jupiter Island to his wife Kathleen on November 10.

Jupiter Island – which is home to fewer than 700 people – is a picturesque barrier island on the coast of Florida, and is home to singer Celine Dion and golfer Tiger Woods, as well as the Fulds.

In addition to the Florida property, the pair own four other homes, including a $21m Manhattan apartment, and in November sold a number of etchings from their fine art collection, including three Willem de Koonings, worth $20m.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/globalbusiness/4349757/Ex-Lehman-chief--Dick-Fuld-sells-13m-home-to-wife-for-100.html

"Libertarian" means "government should enforce what I like, but not what I don't, and therefore it will be smaller."

I've never met or read of a libertarian who didn't bring with his interpretation of what that means either a strong left-wing [liberal's meant too many things over time] or (more usually) a strong conservative viewpoint.

And now is a good time to point out that liberal ("free, generous") used to refer to free trade, laissez-faire ... libertarian???

perhaps that's how it evolved but i think its roots are based in minimal government period. and hopefully a dose non cynical common sense. so, no speed limits but stiff penalties for drunken driving.

get ready for more gov't and a backlash against more taxes

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090619/D98TNJC00.html

"Liberal" has nothing to do with being a "Libertarian". Libertarians are generally in favor of only as much government as is called for in the Constitution.