Crown Molding

www.heightswood.com Check them out they did a great job for me in a 1850's townhouse at a fair price

I think we are paying about $3K to have our living room crowned -- that includes the purchase of the molding, the installation, and the painting, which takes forever, because you are doing multiple coats of a trim that has never been painted before. My guess is our LR is about 90 running square feet -- does that help?

ali r.
{downtown broker}

ali - that comes out to $33 per foot. for that money, i would do it myself. the molding costs less than $3 per foot. you're paying $30 per foot for labor... that's crazy

DykesLumber also has a catalog you can check and calculate what you need, same for Metropolitan Lumber.

FP - my handyman is terrific and does a great job with molding. Is your co-op strict about having a licensed person do all work?

also, it's not that hard to paint molding, fwiw.

Wow, we're really in a DIY-era, huh?

I would not dream of installing molding myself. First, I don't own a mitre saw; second, even if I did I don't have the skill to hang a crown correctly, so it would look like I did it myself. I could probably do the painting, because I am a very skilled painter, but it would take me three days, and my time is definitely worth something.

So I don't feel like we're being ripped off (especially because I've used these contractors before, so I've seen their work) but now I'm curious what RE_Fun's estimate was.

nyc10023, I may use your guy to hang some shelves -- but for this, we need insured contractors.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Dykes is the most common source for materials. They have website and catalogue of styles. For crowns which get no wear at all, MDF (medium density fiberboard) is the way to go. First, it comes primed and takes paint beautifully. It is as easy or easier to work with than wood, won't ever warp, expand, contract, and that means those annoying cracks won't emerge at joints in a year when the seasons change.

It is hard to estimate price without knowing what you are doing. If you are combining ogees and egg-and-dart mouldings or using a dental moulding that is harder to paint and install, the prices will be more than a simple ogee or the like. Also, it is usually combined with door frame moulding (called casings) and base mouldings, so few people will have a cost per sq/ft just for crowns.

My advice: make sure it is appropriate to the overall design scheme because just sticking crowns up can make a place look pretentious or stupid or just weird if there isn't a coherent design the crowns are fitting into and enhancing. Just putting up crown moulding in an upper east side 1970s 8' high apartment will not look right typically.

Before spending the money, just make sure it is going to be money well spent.

front_porch - I should have added a few caveats -- we're kind of DIY people, of the handy type. Don't currently have a mitre saw, but have access to such and if we really wanted to do it, we could I suppose. That said, what we would be very willing to DIY is painting (my better half is excellent at that, and I'm not awful). However your building specifies you need a licensed contractor, and you've worked with these folks before, and sound really happy with their work, so sounds like a good choice for you!

Also, I assumed fairly simple moldings, not the more intricate styles, and as kylewest points out, much more labor-intensive to paint, which would of course make it a big DIY project, or a more expensive contractor project

:-)

That said, do you have your molding picked out? What type of look are you going for?

Mold in the apartment, whether crown type or otherwise, seriously reduces the value and is unhealthy.

lol

hey Jeffry
Methinks youre going to jail

"ali - that comes out to $33 per foot. for that money, i would do it myself. the molding costs less than $3 per foot. you're paying $30 per foot for labor... that's crazy"

point me to which one of the MANY different mouldings in my apartment you think you can get for $3 a foot (much less any of the crown mouldings)

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=43025726&albumId=2136125.

This question is like asking how much does flooring cost, or tiling or just about anything else. but I will add that properly installing crown mouldings is a LOT harder job than most people think. Almost every job I've seen done on the cheap has exhibited splits and other imperfections within one year of installation.

kylewest speaks the truth, so I won't repeat his post. But I will say that a real gem is Dimension Lumber @ 517 Stagg St in Bklyn: they not only have a huge stock catalogue, but they will custom cut any knife you want, which means if you bring them a piece of moulding from your house which no one has made in 140 years, they can replicate it 100%. When we did 885 WEA 9which is known for it's "original" wood mouldings, no one knew which door surrounds were original vs which one's we created. And we spent a hell of a lot more than $3 (or even $33 installed0 per foot. And it was worth every last cent.

PS to tandare: I'm pretty sure Dykes actually gets there stuff from Dimension, so if you go right to the source you get a bigger selection and can choose the wood species you want (and their stock catalogue is like 4 times bigger than Dykes... or maybe 10 times)

Wow 30 yrs your apartment is beautiful! Congratulations

I once had to deduct $500 from a tenant's security deposit b/c he left crown mold in the living room.

Thanks for the tip - I need to get some mouldings made...

30yrs.... seen as how you are prone to posting pictures of your apartment on various threads I assume you are open to all opinions.

Your apartment looks quite a lot like my grandmothers, and not in a good way. For the life of me I can't figure out your style. A little hodgepodge nouveau Italian gaudy maybe? Did those lace curtains come with the apartment? The real ones are on order, right? Is the chandelier really the only light in the LR?? And the focal point in the LR is...? The piano (framed by those lace curtains), or the sofa/fireplace combo? Well at least you're obviously happy with it -its all that really matters.

Well, I'm using Roger so I don't think I'm getting ripped off .. but jeez, 30, your apartment IS beautiful.

What do you call that little secondary molding under the crown that acts like a racing strips? Now I want one of those.

ali r.

^^ racing stripe, not racing strip

Re: Your apartment looks quite a lot like my grandmothers, and not in a good way.

LOL!

And as an Arts and Crafts Movement fan, all I can think is that this is what they revolted against in 1900!

sorry 30yrs, i did my research by going to home depot and lowes sites and saw plenty of MDF moldings from $1 pf to $3 pf. the OP did not state they wanted custom made, high-end, rediculously overpriced moldings. they were looking at "quality" ones.

$30 pf installation and painting is nuts. i can purchase additional footage of molding and do, measure 3 times, the cut with a little additional space, then check again and adjust.... make a mistake and now you'll know exactly the measurement.

the guys who know how to do moldings, will come in and knock out a large room like ali's in 2-3 days and will paint in 1-2 days. that's 2 guys. you only need to worry about the final cut on each wall. $30K/5 days = $6K per day. I WANT THAT JOB.

Ali: http://www.dykeslumber.com/catalog_index_pages/crown_mouldings.htm

Taste is v. subjective. I know my arch. probably cringed when I asked to put in crown mouldings, subway tiles, hex. marble floors. But strangely enough, on his own home, he incorporated some of the traditional features that we put into our place...

My tastes run to a blend of the prewar & modern. I kind of pick and choose the elements I like the best. I like large crown moldings but w/o a ton of dentil & decorative details. I like subway tile, but I don't like the traditional black & white floor tiles. I like more modern chandeliers but traditional (not prefinished) oak floors. I like old fireplaces but I hate traditional built-ins, much prefer free floating furniture. I like painted woodwork (in general) more than complete, traditional heavy mahogany everywhere....

I installed crown molding bought at Dykes Lumber with a friend in my last apartment. Had never used a mitre, never hung molding, and judging from the results, will never attempt such a project again. The only way I could get the molding to lay properly was to use adhesive--a lot of adhesive. Also getting the corners cut right or nearly right required some excess material, because there was quite a bit of waste. A professional paint job covered up most of the sloppy work, but again I would leave molding to experienced installers.

Not that it matters, but it was $3K, not $30K.

West34, you'd laugh even more if you saw an attempt to do Stickley or Roycroft details in a space and building like 30yrs'.

FWIW, one of the top 3 collections of American Arts and Crafts in the country is on the 6th floor of the Dakota! :-)

Just objects, or did they tear out the woodwork, floors, etc.?

30yrs - thanks for the Dimension tip. Your molding is very ornate, did you choose it yourself or did an architect draw it up for you? Also, gorgeous piano - do you play?

PMG -- Since it was the first time you did anything of the sort, I would expect it wouldn't be the easiest or best as a result.

I recall the space as having original architectural details but with the installation of elements of a period Greene and Greene dining room. Certainly plenty of crown moldings.

I just put up crown molding myself (first time). I am very handy and I worked slowly and it came out fine. One important piece of advice is that you should cope the corners - dont mitre them. Unless your walls are perfectly square (and no older buildings are) then the mitred corners may have gaps whereas coped corners will always be perfect.

> Re: Your apartment looks quite a lot like my grandmothers, and not in a good way.

ouch.

"sorry 30yrs, i did my research by going to home depot and lowes sites and saw plenty of MDF moldings from $1 pf to $3 pf. the OP did not state they wanted custom made, high-end, rediculously overpriced moldings. they were looking at "quality" ones."

But they did say "crown" moldings. did you look a the size of the moldings which were $1 a foot at Home Depot and Lowes?

UWSmynabe: if you wanna bench race, why don't you post some pics of your palace and we'll see who has the big dick?

"30yrs - thanks for the Dimension tip. Your molding is very ornate, did you choose it yourself or did an architect draw it up for you?"

Everything in the apartment was designed by me. Moldings come from about 7 or 8 different sources (most were "stock", though, or 'semi-stock' - i.e. not stock, but from an existing catalogue to be ordered, as opposed to custom designed by me)

"Also, gorgeous piano - do you play?"

Wife is classically trained pianist. 1901 Steinway A was selected by Steinway off the line and spent the first 7 years of it's life used for concerts in Steinway Hall on 57th St.

"http://www.dykeslumber.com/catalog_index_pages/crown_mouldings.htm"

Would you use any of the "solid crowns" on page 31 ALONE? Sure, you can get those for less than $3 a foot, but they aren't "crowns" to stand alone: they are "crown parts". Or does anyone think a 1" x 1" piece is a crown moulding?

"$30 pf installation and painting is nuts. i can purchase additional footage of molding and do, measure 3 times, the cut with a little additional space, then check again and adjust.... make a mistake and now you'll know exactly the measurement.

the guys who know how to do moldings, will come in and knock out a large room like ali's in 2-3 days and will paint in 1-2 days. that's 2 guys. you only need to worry about the final cut on each wall. $30K/5 days = $6K per day. I WANT THAT JOB."

Seems like you failed 3rd grade math.

Ali:" My guess is our LR is about 90 running square feet"

90 X $33 = $2,970.

BY YOUR STATEMENT "the guys who know how to do moldings, will come in and knock out a large room like ali's in 2-3 days and will paint in 1-2 days. that's 2 guys. you only need to worry about the final cut on each wall. $30K/5 days = $6K per day. I WANT THAT JOB."

But it isn't $30K, it's $2,970; so it's $2,970/5 = $594 per day for 2 guys or $297 per guy per day. But my guess is with your skills, you'd still want that job.

"What do you call that little secondary molding under the crown that acts like a racing strips? Now I want one of those."

Picture moulding or Picture rail moulding - it's what you hang pictures from so you don't have to nail into your nice plaster walls.

http://www.blueoxmill.com/Sample%20Chair%20and%20Picture%20Rail.htm

"One important piece of advice is that you should cope the corners - dont mitre them. Unless your walls are perfectly square (and no older buildings are) then the mitred corners may have gaps whereas coped corners will always be perfect."

Agreed when possible, but a lot of detailed/ornate crown mouldings can not be coped and must be mitred.