Rental at 50 West 67th Street

i would add dimensions to your floor plan.

unit in contract shows what you are calling a bedroom a dressing room. would recommend looking at your competition such as 98 rsd which has straight on views of the river at a price point very close to yours.

fundamentally, i don't understand your pricing.

We would be happy to take it off your hands @ $5k for a two year lease.

If there is a fee associated with the apartment, the renter is looking at another $14k on top of the monthly $7900 which is insane in this market and economy. It adds another $1100 per month to the rent. If you want to rent, pay the broker fee, add dimension to the floorplan and lower the rent.

Excellent comments, thanks so much! We pay fee not renter. Going to discuss with husband and realtor right now! Thanks again, we love this input. P.S. The bedroom that is a dressing room in the unit that is for sale under contract is the same room...she made hers a dressing room which is what we would have done if we went ahead with the renovations as she did. We kept that bedroom as is and is why the living room and master bedroom are larger. We will get dimensions on line and also make sure realtor is available to show in person if you like. Also, I think there is a difference between Riverside Park an Central Park. Both are beautiful, really a matter of preference. I'll look at your example and thanks for suggesting it. JMarin5 we will be in touch..please feel free to e-mail me directly at Leslie4269@earthlink.net and anyone else who might be interested in making an offer. Regards, Leslie

does your apartment have a direct view of central park?

Nope..two fireplaces. I love views too! We chose fireplaces and location to Central Park b/c that's what was important to us so guess our renter would need to also like those things as well...not everyone does : )

the fireplaces are great but a direct hudson river view vs. proximity to central park is not comparable. as discussed, the dimensions are crucial as well as a clear statement if there are any fees (i.e. coop/condo, etc) associated with your price.

I totally agree about having a lovely view. It is just wonderful. So is being 1/2 a block to the subway...so many things to consider. I really think everyone is different and what is important to everyone is different too. Obviously, we bought our place b/c we love it..others might not. We're looking for the person that wants what we have to offer. Thanks for your comments :)

i don't think i'm making my point. using 98 rsd as a comp, they are renting apartments there at approximately the same price and size as yours but they have direct river views. given where you started your pricing, it does appear that you (or your realtor) have been unrealistic about the competition.

Leslie, columbiacounty's point is that you are an owner, therefore you are bad. You should lower your price so you get less and so that there is another data point for lower rental prices. Then some of his pals will come on here and use your pricing as an example of why it is better to rent and therefore hopefully create rental demand at the expense of ownership demand, lowering the prices of real estate for sale, one property at a time. Ultimately if they are successful they will lower the price of Manhattan real estate and thereby force down the price of Long Island City, which is home to one of their main nemeses. All of this of course works in connection with their other noble goal of lowering actual dollar commissions payable to evil brokers (including yours, they've already got you paying the fee to your broker) and then squeezing the percentage commission too as owners with declining prices want to keep a greater percentage of their proceeds.
Later today, columbiacounty will be shoplifting from various Madison Avenue stores in hopes of making doing business in these areas less profitable and hopefully eventually leading to lower retail rental pricing and lower retail sale pricing.
Oh, also soon he will start cursing like a sailor and using funny phrases like Realt-Whore.

true Gerving. Don't mis-underestimate the power of SE posters. Nobody here knows this, but I single handedly crashed the Vegas market. When I retire I'm going to move out there and buy my house for 90% off!

Leslie -- I lived on the block for many years and it is a lovely building. IMHO you can't understate the value of incredible proximity to Central Park, the 1-train, Lincoln Center and some great convenient shopping. I like a view too, especially of water, but 98 RSD is a very different neighborhood without the same offerings. Good luck.

Gerving you f'n whore of a realtor and seller of snake oil disguised as "home" equity with nothing to do but BLOW BLOW BLOW this market b/c you're career is nothing more than using your mouth and feet to open doors and make sure owner's shit don't get stolen at your open houses.....

Ahhhhh ... now that I got that off my hairy chest.....

Leslie4269, it seems every few months you come on here and wonder why "your" wonderful apt on 67th st, next to the park and 1/9 train hasn't been taken by someone who should be kowtowing to you for "giving" it away so cheap.... well apparently, your unit is priced too high, it seems there is a taker at $5K. So why don't you, your husband and broker set a conference call in 3 months and discuss... and when you come to the realization you'd take $5K instead of $0, the market will be at $4K... b/c I hate to tell you but the market is going down.... and that's a fat jack.

I think your unit is better than the one on Riverside by location and everything else, except the views but those are for older people anyway. Issue is that you are at the high end of the rental market and things rent slower. So if you cut 1000 to 6900 per month, it costs you 12000 for the year but if you rent it 2 months faster then you win out. Anyway, it looks nice and the funny thing is with all that space for half the price you couldn't rent half the space, you could rent less than half the space. The high end just doesn't rent as much per square foot price.

lol, I just red the Gerving w57thstreet, it is like just s predicted, like Tom and Gerry.

I would also add pictures of the bedrooms and bathrooms, if I were you. You seem to show-off the living room, which is nice, but many people are also concerned with the bedrooms and bathrooms. Also, is there a doorman in the building? What is the entrance situation? Intercom?

NYCApt1234, good points and well taken. We will be taking new pics (master bedroom is like the living room (fyi), and I believe the listing should say it is a full serviced doorman building. I am thrilled someone made an offer..that is what we were hoping for. You all have some good points and like I said we are listening...lowered price, will be posting more pics, info. and all the other positive stuff we can take from these discussions. Gotta run.....three babes saying I'm done with the computer : )

leslie 4269 i like your earnestness - if that is even a word. good luck.

better lit pictures for sure, kitchen pic also.

For what it's worth, I, and most people I know would take proximity to CP over views of NJ at anywhere from a 5 - 15% premium. There are others who wouldn't. Oh, and Gerving 1 - CC 0 for this round.

Gerving, clearly what they are doing works for them, it's only been on the market since...oh wait, January? Hmmm, perhaps it isn't working?
But because CC said lowering the price makes sense, using comp data as a reference point, clearly the price should remain the same!

......you are doing a bigger disservice by beefing with CC and not providing useful data...

and i couldn't agree more...only old people like views.
us young people, we like brick walls!

douchebags coming out of the woodwork today boy...it's nice outside, why are you young people posting here about hating views?

yeah...I thought the point was to help OP out. didn't realize I was in competition with some idiot.

p.s. you really don't think there is a premium for a direct hudson river view? better to have a view of the subway station?

Leslie, is the apt very dark? The pictures of the living room seem incredibly dark. What do the windows face?

what difference could that possibly make? this apartment is located close to central park and the subway. what more do you want?

This is well centralized area, you could definitely rent it for $6000 to $7000 if the apartment is in very good condition and if you are willing to give a long-term lease so some family can settle in. Definitely if you pay the broker fee and make it easy for a family.

Definitely in the eye of the beholder, and I can't pretend to know what carries a premium, but I'd take proximity to CP over Hudson views - not remotely close for me. Wife and I are in our early thirties, with a young kid and another on the way, if that helps the young/old debate.

More to the point, it's honestly hard to opine on pricing without more info. The location is amazing. The low floor is an issue (noise?). But that's really all I know.

I think the dimensions would really help. As is, for whatever reason, the floorplan makes the place look small, like 2 or the bedrooms are 10x10 and the third is 14x10, or something like that. If that's the case, price is definitely too high. If all the rooms are a good size, I am not at all sure.

Also, I'd put a lot more pics up. Defintely bedrooms, but also pics that clearly show windows and perhaps something through those windows. Make the place look much more pleasant.

At your price point (or anywhere remotely near it, even if you decide to drop price), your target market is relatively wealthy, probably informed, and likely mindful of their time. They're not going to bother visiting the apartment for themselves unless you catch their eye in the listing. I think the location is one factor, but there's got to be more.

My family was in the market for something somewhat similar last fall. If I'd seen your listing, my first reaction would've been "too expensive". My second would've been "what's so special about this place that justifies the price?". Maybe I'd have emailed the broker to try to find out, but most likely not - would've just moved on to the next one.

If pics, light, dimensions and amenities (together with the great location) justify the price, you gotta make that clear in the listing. If they don't, you gotta lower the price.

Just my 2 cents, good luck.

Just FYI, 30 West 63rd (Lincoln Plaza) is renting small 2 bedrooms with an office (that also has a window), 2 baths on high floors for low 4,000s and 2 months free. You mentioned a gym, and it sounds like you have a nicer building, but I don't see a reason for the 50% premium.

zbe... but that's a little to close to CP for me... I just need a little more buffer.... w/o view and I like to pay more... well, frankly it makes me feel superior.... $.02

Everyone here will find some problem with your listing. Too close to Central Park. Fireplaces can get hot when there is a fire in them. Etc.

Leslie: I think that without a broker's fee, better lit pictures (showing the apt in the daytime), pics of bathrooms, better flrplan and a new price point (6995), you shouldn't have trouble. My old rental apt on the UWS (3b, 3ba), smaller than yours, way crappier and smaller kitchen, non-ideal floorplan, slightly worse location, no views rented for 8000 2 months ago in one weekend of OHs. And this was without the owner paying the broker's fee.

The main differences in the 2 listings: 1) way more realistic pricing to start with 2) well-lit pictures with furniture 3) professional-looking floorplan 4) did you have an OH?

One other thing: people are scared of renting in co-ops because of the extra paperwork involved. Is your board easy? If so, you may want to address this in your ad. Also, people like the idea of being able to rent indefinitely - though my old rental apt was a condo and there was no guarantee that the LL would continue to rent it out.

Even the guy on W67th doesn't like this.

What nyc10023 said. The perceived-hassle and inflexibility factor is huge, so many potential renters won't even look at a co-op. (I hear this all the time from visiting professors.)

Anyway, none of this matters. Get the price down and somebody'll take it. Or, even better, bite the bullet and sell the place.

34 comments, insults, back and forth and it all come down to the same thing: "get the price down." hey, but what about that great location and those fireplaces?

I can't figure out the agenda of people here. Columbiacounty, lower the price? Find one apartment nearby at similar quality or better that is renting for $500 or 1000 less, then you have support.

i'm just parroting what NWT said. note that comment above.

ok
well obviously if the price is lowered it will rent more quickly.

kintanilla, I don't know or care what "similar" nearby apartments are renting for or asking. This one has sat for months, so is therefore overpriced.

People trying to unload are very often like kids or animals. It takes constant repetition to get them to learn anything. I'm always happy to chip in.

Okay, if it were a condo or a large LL building (assuming better pics, flrplans), it probably would have rented at 7900 or more with the broker fee as an incentive.

Location is great, where are you going to find a high 60s, lower 70s CPW prewar apt for rent other than the Langham or another co-op sublet? As far as location goes, 67th without a view (you have some light?) in a nice old prewar building, renovated apt, is pretty darned good.

The big issue is that it's in a co-op. If the co-op is reasonable, and this is made very clear in the ad (you really need to work with your broker on the copy - what are you paying them for?), you should have no trouble.

Carol Gat rented a smaller 3-bedroom (also a combo, not great views or light from the ad) a few months ago at full ask (went into contract VERY quickly) for 5900ish on either 69th or 68th street (I think it was an elevator building, no doorman). It was also a co-op sublet. And the owners did not pay the broker's fee.

Look, you're in PS199, nice prewar building, good location, time is a-wasting. Get to work on that copy right away. What has your broker done for 15%?

Kinta: yes, other apts of similar size and with their owns pros & cons in the vicinity have rented for more/sqft in a shorter timeframe. With the exception of the Gat listing I pointed out (btw, great pics, easy to understand floorplan), these were all condos or large LL buildings. While it is illusory that a condo is "rental" stock because the LL could decide not to extend the lease, people have an issue with renting a co-op. That's why it's so hard to price co-op rentals. Not to mention that in the last 10 years, people haven't had trouble selling their co-ops, so co-op rentals have been rara avis until recently.

never mind the 15% ... this apartment first went on the market in January. at $7,500 a month--that's over $50K of lost rental income.

Leslie: look at this listing. Very close stats, similar kind of apt, but note the better pics, floorplans and the out-of-the gate pricing. 2nd floor, so no views either.

http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=1510746

so...at $6K rented in a month. does that answer the original question?

CC: better building + doorman, bigger apt. Could rent for a little more. Leslie: I don't know Carol Gat or have any affiliation with her, but at the very least as the successful listing broker of an extremely similar co-op sublet, you may want to give her a call to get her POV.

My husband and I are looking to move to a 2/2 or a 3/2 apt this summer/fall, but $7900 is way too far out of our price range. We've been looking on the UWS and UES and the comps we've seen have been in the $3800 to $5000 range. This is quite far from your asking price, Leslie. Granted your apt is more renovated than the others, but I still think you're very far off of a "rentable" price. --- I also agree with someone's posting about longevity. My husband and I want to rent an apt that we can have children in, not live in for a year or 2. So, keep that in mind when you ultimately rent it.

Leslie...I've looked over what you and John have done and understand why you believe your rental of 3GH should rent for a given price. It is a reflection of what you paid for the 2BR.

What this situation brings to the fore is the fact that, for now, on the UWS of Manhattan, it is FAR more expensive to own than to rent. At a rental price of $7000/month, you're looking at a $5000 per month of negative carry between the cost of your funds and building maintenance. That is just plain ugly. It is also one of the items that supports the argument that apartment prices will continue to fall.

columbia, there are two more things that makes 98 rsd more attractive: light and closet space. this apt is very dark and there are no closets given that building was intended as studio apartments. given everything (including location) this should prob be 6k-7k at most... just my 2c

by far, the best comment:
kintanilla - "ok
well obviously if the price is lowered it will rent more quickly."

YOU ARE A GENIUS! If only we had known this all along!!! NYC wouldn't be in the state it is today...

lower the rent...and the apt will actually rent...WOW
1 + 1 DOES = 2...christ almighty!

What other nuggets of wisdom can you deliver to us?

walter7: current math looks more like a $12 K negative carry times a minimum of 7 months. almost $100K down the old drainaroni--unless of course they try to bake that loss into an exorbitant asking price in which case the drainaroni will be rapidly doubling.

It all depends on their monthly costs... if their monthly costs are "x" then they should look to cover "x" in the rent. Right now making a profit isn't too realistic. And if they have another residence to pay for (in Florida, I believe), then they should be looking to rent this place asap to get rid of unnecessary costs.

how about just making anything?
CC is not trying to go the route of profit vs loss, as we dont know what the costs are.
we do know that they haven't made a dime while it's sitting though, right?

We also know that the CC on 7GH was $2,755 month in April of 2008. We can assume that 3GH is similar.

columbiacty....you may be valuing the apt higher than I. I used a very conservative $2mm 'value' price and a 4% cost of funds. That seemed sufficiently conservative. Tax issues and personal situations will certainly change the calculus. Nonetheless, the major point is that owning is FAR more expensive than renting.

If Leslie priced this apt at $4000-4500 a month, I'd rent it for life! That's twice the CC... that seems fair to me!

Just let us know when you put more photos on. And then we can re-visit our points of view.

But hey, who is better to rent out a $7000 apartment? Your friend who does a couple of transactions a year, or a big broker who has a huge staff and won't personally give you the time of day? Who will develop the best marketing strategy?

has it rented yet?

From reading all these posts I am convinced that if you guys applied all the time you spend figuring, cifering and arguing to something productive you would have cured cancer by now.

cancer? there's more money in ED

Extenzeeeee!

w67thstreet
25 minutes ago
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cancer? there's more money in ED

Of course, and the punch line is funnier with ED too. Cancer is sooo down. But ED, you can really get a rise out of people.

Oh! You mean like if every borker and flipper earned $20k / year as a lab rat and actually contributed to society? Oh shit don't forget the f'n billions used to bail out the idiot bankers. Yep, I can guarantee you that we've cured cancer, ED and itchy ass.