Sale at 1021 Park Avenue #3C

NYCMatt: You're right about bathrooms, and wrong about maids' rooms. With utility rooms, it depends on size, windows and original function.
In general:
Classic six = 2 BR + LR + DR + K + M
Classic seven = Classic six plus an additional BR or (less commonly) M
Classic eight = Classic seven plus an additional M or (less commonly) BR/LBR
Classic nine = Classic eight plus LBR, M or BR
And so forth, adding BRs and Ms
In its original configuration, the subject property was at least a ten (3BR + LR + DR + K + LBR + 3M). I think the servants' wing probably had four separate, windowed rooms, one of which has been merged into the kitchen. So it most likely is what the listing says: an eleven-room apartment.

The room-counting conventions may not make sense today, because very few people have three or four live-in servants; but like it or not, the description is meaningful to its intended audience.

In the original plan, in the Carpenter-Candela book, the C-line is 11 rooms. The block behind the dining room has pantry, bath (neither counted as a room,) kitchen, servants' sitting room, and three servant's rooms.

You could even call it a 12, counting the 10'6" x 31' gallery with its ~9' window.

Wow. That's floorplan porn. NYCMatt, I think you are nitpicking here. The place was obviously overpriced, but I don't think anyone was being suckered in by broker-speak into believing the apartment is anything other than what it is. You don't get the kind of money it takes to own a place like this in a building like this by being retarded.

Kyle, are you assuming that whomever wrote the ad actually owns this apartment?

I also think it's silly to assume that apartments as huge as an eleven room mansion in the sky could in any way be construed as "classic". Classic SIx, Classic Seven -- yes -- since quite a few people in New York City lived in these. But let's face it, even in better times, only a tiny fraction of the population could afford to dwell in such large apartments -- hardly large enough to consider those apartment layouts to be "classic".

NYCMatt: No, he's assuming that whoever buys it will have the kind of money it takes to own it. By definition, that seems like a safe assumption.

I spent a lot of time in that line of 1021 Park as a kid. The only thing it lacks is a view.

NYCMatt: Rule of Holes. Stop digging.

People who know high-end pre-war know the classic formats. Through "classic nine", there is very little ambiguity, aside from the occasional swap of a family bedroom for an extra servant's room. Beyond that, it gets a little fuzzy, but not fuzzy enough to justify your ranting on the subject.

West,

Do the gallery, DR and kitchen windows face an interior courtyard?? On the 3rd floor with just the MBR and the LR with a south facing street exposure it must be a very dark apt, no? And on the 3rd floor, street side it must not get much if any direct sun. We looked at the 2nd floor at 993 Park and man it was dark. But if you like dark and views of parking garages than that was the place for you. And all for just under $5mm.

Once you get past a 7, in general the extra rooms are more likely to be maids rooms than anything else, that's just the way it has always been (i.e. the difference between a 9 and an 11 is either 2 more servants rooms or a servants room and a BR/library/etc., but almost NEVER 2 "main" rooms).

Jake, I wouldn't call it dark. Not an aerie, but not dark. The gallery, dining room, and other west windows face the back of a landmark townhouse (DeKoven, I think) on Park. Front windows face another pretty townhouse at the corner of Park and 85th. The other windows I haven't looked out of. 3rd would be somewhat less light than the floor I know.

NWT: Agreed. The scale of the rooms and height of the ceilings helps too.