Our government needs to learn this phrase - We Can't Afford It!!

I completely agree with you but neither one of us would ever get elected even as dog catcher with that type of platform. By and large, people are buying into the bullshit that we can have a free lunch and/or nothing is important except the program that I am benefitting from.

@Jazzman: what you say makes a lot of sense, but columbiacountry is right, the people like Obama's feel good message of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

If you are a Manhattan married couple who combined make $250K or more ($125K each), you better move out of NYC now, before your 50% tax rate goes to 55% with surcharges on federal income tax, social security, and now Rangel's health care.

I wish Jeff Flake of AZ could clone himself and somehow take over Congress.

So you're suggesting moving out of your beloved homes for 12,500 a year (5% increase in tax)?

we can afford to give free health care to the uninsured if we just spend wisely. This is a very wealthy country (except for right now) in general.

@ericho75. Actually it is more than that. That $12,500 is only what the Feds are taking. The City has raised property taxes and sales taxes, and tolls are up to. My point is NYC will be even less affordable in 2011 than it had been in 2006, so there is a shift going on: either the population will stop growing or decline (people will move), or the cost of housing will decrease materially to allow for the smaller take home income.

@marco_m. Great! I have cancelled my health insurance. Marco, you start paying my health insurance premiums for me: they are $350 per month. Don't worry, I am very healthy: I don't smoke, I eat right, exercise, no alcohol, healthy weight, no heart disease.

marco_m - "we can afford to give free health care to the uninsured if we just spend wisely. This is a very wealthy country (except for right now) in general."

I believe you're right, but I also believe that your thinking is the exact thinking that got us into this mess and will keep us here until we ultimately go bankrupt as a country.

The rub is that you could say "We're a wealthy country, we can afford X because doesn't it make sense that everyone have X," but the problem is there are too many "Xs." Can't we say, we're a rich country don't our firefighters and cops deserve pensions - I mean the richest country in the world can definitely afford that right? We're a rich country, so we better have the best, biggest, and baddest military, especially in these uncertain times.... etc etc etc.

Our government has become so big that people no longer are willing to take care of themselves because they expect the government to do it for them. Look at hurricane Katrina. Look at our high school drop out rates. Last year 1 million kids didn't graduate from high school who should have. Imagine how they expect the government to care for them. We need some tough love here. If you don't graduate from high school your life should suck. Entitlement programs and other government waste must be eliminated or we go bankrupt.

China is awash in cash, we are awash in debt - one need not be a rocket scientist to figure out what a disadvantage this puts us in.

Just yesterday on the cover of the NYT is an article on the benifits of calorie restrictied diets.
Eat little, live long healthy lives...
So no we are commiting 20 Billion in food aid to Africa to fatten'em up so they can get sick and utilize health care.
Anyone else see a disconnect here?

I just remember in the last bear market when I was unemployed for a while, I had no health insurance. I didnt even go play football with my buddies cuz i was afraid if I got hurt I couldnt get help.. as pu$$y as that sounds, that was the reality. jazzman you read too deeply into what I say. I know china is gonna blow us out as soon as they think the time is right.

Republicans brought us were we are. These people are disgusting me! They have been doing nothing but serving their self interest over the last 8 years. I give a lot of credit to Obama right now. That's quiet some mess he has to clean right now!

falcongold1 -lol
personally I think we should stop giving food stamps to people who are morbidly obese -

and marco-m - your not playing football sounds prudent not p_____.

I remember this article from the Washington post 2 years ago saying that the daily cost of the war in Irac was 700 Millions. $700 millions a day!!!!!!!!!!! and for what? You tell me!!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/21/AR2007092102074.html
We surely wouldn't have to print so much $$$ if we hadn't wasted all that money.

18 months ago we were doing well? ROTFLMAO! 18 months ago, this country was walking around with blinders on. "everything o-tay la la la la la!" This economic crisis has been coming since before Bush and made worse because his administration ignored the warning signs. They ignored the very issues and industries that are contributing to the demise of the economy. Anyone who uses the argument "We Can't Afford It" hasn't a clue about how the economy works.

A crisis of any kind is reality's brick to your hard heads that we need to do something different and NOW! Read that last sentence again - DO something. Not sit on our hands and wait for the pain to stop. That's what the government's been doing for years - it didn't work. Our schools are underfunded and students are under performing, our health care industry sends millions of people into bankruptcy every year, our manufacturing industry is embarrassing, our infrastructure is crumbling, we are in two wars and have to deal with a pint size devil trying to start another. THESE things are happening because the mantra has been "We Can't Afford It!"

Well, "We Can't Afford Not To". How bad does it have to get for you? When employment is 20%? When people are setting up tents on your lawn? When 100 million people can't afford health insurance, instead of 50 million? As for raising taxes - just remember CA. They are where they are because the people did not want pay higher taxes to make the necessary improvements.

This isn't a rainstorm where you can just stay inside until the rain lets up. "We Can't Afford It" - ?? That's like not fixing your car when it is the only way you can get to work. If you can't get to work, you can't collect a paycheck to pay your bills. If you can't pay your bills, the bank forecloses on your house and what's even more tragic is that they also reposes your car.

I'd like to hear what you would say if the economy really hit home for you. No job, home taken - and the gov't tells you - "We Can't Afford It".

nonsense. The federal government can afford anything it wants to. They have something called a printing press and, as Bernanke said in 2002, can print as many dollars as it wants at little cost. States on the other hand cannot print their own money, unless of course you start issuing IOUs like California.

all of these posts unfortunately confirm my second point above: everyone is for cutting everything except the thing they deem vital. i am convinced that people reading about these times in the future will shake their heads in wonderment at how thoroughly and blindly we blew it.

allonafla,
The country works just like your house budget. Income in...bills pay out. If you have excess you can save or spend more. The difference is that you don't have a press in the basement to print more money if you decide to spend way more than you take in. There are consequences of such actions that most of us fear. If I was a commie pinko prehaps I would be more relaxed about it.
Have a nice day, comrad.

"The City has raised property taxes and sales taxes, and tolls are up to."

Moving out of the city is not going to solve that problem. Nearly city and town in the tri-state area has raised prperty taxes.

"we can afford to give free health care to the uninsured if we just spend wisely. This is a very wealthy country (except for right now) in general."

This is exactly the attitude that has gotten us into this mess on both the macro- and microeconomic levels.

"We're a 'wealthy' household, so there's no reason our children should set foot in a public school."

"We're a wealthy' household, so of course we should be driving matching Mercedes."

"We're a 'wealthy' household, so we 'need' a $20,000 stove in our professional-grade kitchen to throw those elaborate parties people of our class are 'expected' to throw."

"We're a 'wealthy' nation, so of course we should have military bases in 86 countries to 'safeguard' 'freedom'."

"We're a 'wealthy' nation, so it's our obligation to 'help' those in 'need', even if they don't want to help themselves."

And on.

And on.

And on.

*yawn*

So what's everyone doing today? Isn't the weather great?

I'm working on a writing project before heading to the gym. All of my friends are out of town for the weekend. :( Maybe we should all meet up somewhere tonight!

totally!

here is a great solution to save money, get rid of govt. programs that give free food to low income kids since "Hunger can be a positive motivator."

Anyone under 18 can be eligible? Can’t they get a job during the summer by the time they are 16? Hunger can be a positive motivator. What is wrong with the idea of getting a job so you can get better meals?

Tip: If you work for McDonald’s, they will feed you for free during your break.

http://cynthiadavis.net/PDFs/cpr090604_Summer_Food_Program.htm

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/political-fix/political-fix/2009/06/olbermann-dems-pile-on-criticism-of-cynthia-davis/

President, I'm with you on that.

Have you read Ron Paul's book, "Manifesto"? It's a call to action to get our government to go back to following the letter of the law in our Constitution -- something we've not just departed from, but literally ROCKETED AWAY from over the past century.

with me on what? Not the "hunger can be a positive motivator" thing? Iwas being sarcastic on that. I think that such a thing is insane.

somebody's been watching Countdown with Keith Olbermann!

"http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/political-fix/political-fix/2009/06/olbermann-dems-pile-on-criticism-of-cynthia-davis/"

OMG.

I actually disagree with EVERY SINGLE WORD that Olbermann uttered in this clip!

What an idiot!

so then you support starving kids? Then I guess that makes you today's Worst Person in the World.

yes, I've been watching Countdown nearly every day for 6 years. I'm just not that into Fixed, I mean Fox, News. Although Glenn Beck is funny. He had me leughing on my couch when he was talking about the FEMA concentration camps. And his impersonation of Bareny Frank is funny.

Scientic evidence indicates that starving persons (calorie restricted) live longer healthier lives.
So the key is not just calorie reduction but, what you do consume while you are starving. Let's take North Korea for instance where Lil'Kim is conducting a 50 year longitudinal study of caloric restriction on an entire country. Now what if it turns out the N.Koreans live longer healthier lives than their southern brothren that might make a great argument for not feeding everyone so much. Don't tell everyone but, I'm working on a deal with the N.Korean Ministry of tourism and Weight Watchers to build a Weight loss Spa/prison work camp. I't's a win-win. The facility is already built and staffed. the problem is clearing out the prisoners and painting the place 'spa' colors.

How was your vacation?
Lost a little weight, ate a little kimchi, killed an inmate with a shive.
All and all I would recommend it to my friends.

Sorry Uncle Alpie,
Glen Beck is an absolute Moron...and I apologize to morons everywhere.

"so then you support starving kids? "

No.

What I don't support, however, is a Big Brother government that circumvents the family dynamic.

The 8 years of Bush wouldn't have needed to have been such a spending and leverage bubble if we didn't need to dig ourselves out of a depression caused by the Clinton years, and we didn't have to become a prudish nation because of the sexual immorality and other sleezyness of Clinton.

Imagine we didn't have the dot com bubble and easy money spending during the 1990s, plus the situations that gave us Enron, then we wouldn't have have had an economic depression early this decade that we needed to inflate out of. Imagine if the Clinton administration had heeded Oliver North's warning about Osama Bin Laden, we wouldn't have had the attacks on our country in 2001 that further worsened our country's depression. We wouldn't have had the opportunity for an overzealous Bush administration to push us into Iraq war. Imagine if Hillary weren't such a personally reviled character because of her need to be co-president, her "vast right wing conspiracy" theories, Whitewater and the murders, that maybe universal healthcare would have happened because it wouldn't have been associated with such a hated person. Imagine if Bill Clinton wasn't such a sleezeball that this country didn't need to give Bush such a mandate to be an anti-Clinton? Not that he would have been better, but maybe if Clinton wasn't so fast and loose we would have elected Al Gore instead of turning him away because he was just Clinton 3 and because he was so damn whiney.

wow, those are the lamest Republican talking points I have ever seen jdurewicz.

First, Oliver North NEVER warned about Bin Laden. I assume you are gathering your facts from this e-mail that is widely circulated:

Is it true that . . . Oliver North said during the 1987 Iran-Contra hearings that Osama bin Laden had threatened his life?

The answer is no. This Internet hoax says that under questioning from an unidentified senator, Col. Oliver North said he had a home security system installed because a terrorist had threatened him and his family. When asked who this terrorist was, Col. North said it was Osama bin Laden.

The facts: Oliver North testified about a home security system during a July 7, 1987 joint Senate-House hearing on the Iran-Contra investigation. The questioner was not a senator, but committee counsel John Nields. Col. North testified the security system was installed because threats were made on his life by terrorist Abu Nidal.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/Oliver_North.shtml

It was actually BUSH who was warned about Bin laden in an August 2001 Presidential Daily Briefing memo titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in America."

"The 8 years of Bush wouldn't have needed to have been such a spending and leverage bubble if we didn't need to dig ourselves out of a depression caused by the Clinton years,"

Between tax cuts for the rich and the Iraq war, Bush spent nearly $1 Trillion. Why is this Clinton's fault?

and in regards to Enron, that occurred under the Bush Admin. Enron was a major contributor to Bush's presidential campaign and he was even good friends with Ken Lay, the convicted CEO of Enron.

"Not that he would have been better, but maybe if Clinton wasn't so fast and loose we would have elected Al Gore instead of turning him away because he was just Clinton 3 and because he was so damn whiney."

Complete nonsense. Gore lost because a bunch of elderly voters in Florida did not know how to use the Chads.

"The 8 years of Bush wouldn't have needed to have been such a spending and leverage bubble if we didn't need to dig ourselves out of a depression caused by the Clinton years ..."

And let's not forget that any and all spending under Bush could only have been authorized by the DEMOCRATICALLY-controlled Congress ....

allonfla -"Our schools are underfunded and students are under performing" - "Anyone who uses the argument "We Can't Afford It" hasn't a clue about how the economy works."

True our schools are underperforming, but they aren't underfunded. We waste so much money on educating our children - spending more money is not the answer - researcher after researcher has proven that spending more won't make our schools better. Fact is, no country in the world gets worse results per dollar spent than the US. We need to change the way we educate, not spend more money.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/overpaying-for-educational-underachievement/

Claiming that others don't know what their talking about when you seem to have such large wholes in your arguments seems to be a bit aggressive.

except as usual you moron the republicans controlled congress until jan 2007. another of the world according to matt the bullshit artist.

Pres "hunger can be a positive motivator" - I understand you are being sarcastic here, but to some extent this statement is true. If I new the government wasn't going to give me free food and housing my whole life I'd be more inclined to have a job.
Plus, feeding the hungry should be done by churches, civic groups, and not for profits. These things should be funded by people with excess time and money not with tax dollars.

Jazzman - a bit agressive - interesting word. sorry I can't agree with you or the NYT article when I have seen first hand how poorly funded our schools are. But besides that, what other large holes do you see in my argument? For all that I said, you push back on one. I'd say I made a better argument than "We Can't Afford It"

falcogold1 - you are somewhat correct. The gov't like many households goes into debt to purchase goods and services that will eventually increase its wealth, savings and security. For example, college or some type of vocational training, a house, and a car. However, I don't know of many households that say "We Can't Afford It" when a crisis hits. If a spouse or child gets diagnosed with a major illness, they don't shrug and say "we can't afford it". If the roof blows away, they don't say "we can't afford it". So in the end you have to decide what's more important: going into debt to secure your future or hope and pray that the crisis you created blows over magically.

we're getting into socio economic problems that go so far beyond the current crisis and RE. i cant even think about it anymore

Jazzman - your comment about the gov't not helping is why your type of politics gets ignored. The gov't doesn't give you free anything for all of your life - ever. So stop with the "aggressiveness" and speak reasonably. I don't mind limits on what the gov't can do but when the next guy (credit card-health-mortgage industry) is doing some shady shit - you bet I want the gov't to use it's full force.

The only time I want the gov't out of my face is when it comes to my uterus and love life. I find it hilarious that the GOP can cry foul about gov't involvement in business and our check books but don't blink at incredibly intrusive policies about my body and who we can marry.

Are you searious allonfla, you want the GOP to be out of your uterus, but you'd be ok murdering your own child for convenience? I'll take a bunch of jerk GOP people any day before a woman who is intent on saving her own "right" to murder her OWN child.

whoa partner....way, way, way out of line.

Republicans are a bunch of idiots.

Let's just end this thread.

allonfla - "The gov't doesn't give you free anything for all of your life - ever" - Sure they do. Plenty of people in the projects have had free or reduced priced housing their entire lives. The real turnover rate in the projects is less than 2%.

"If the roof blows away, they don't say "we can't afford it" - the problem here is that you are talking about individuals making decisions for themselves and I'm taking about governments make decisions for all of us and future generations. Plus, plenty of people who get their roofs blown off say "we can't afford it" and they move in with family etc. It's one thing for a person to chose to go into debt, it's another thing for a government to write checks today that benefit the people of today and then make future generations pay for it. We got ourselves in this mess, we should suffer through it. We shouldn't make our kids suffer through it. The interest expense alone from all of the money we are borrowing is astounding and an expense that it completely irresponsible to pass on to other people.

wonderboy - you're right, Republicans are a bunch of idiots - the problem is that Dems haven't proven to be any smarter/wiser.

allonfla - "The gov't doesn't give you free anything for all of your life - ever" - Sure they do. Plenty of people in the projects have had free or reduced priced housing their entire lives. The real turnover rate in the projects is less than 2%.

"If the roof blows away, they don't say "we can't afford it" - the problem here is that you are talking about individuals making decisions for themselves and I'm taking about governments make decisions for all of us and future generations. Plus, plenty of people who get their roofs blown off say "we can't afford it" and they move in with family etc. It's one thing for a person to chose to go into debt, it's another thing for a government to write checks today that benefit the people of today and then make future generations pay for it. We got ourselves in this mess, we should suffer through it. We shouldn't make our kids suffer through it. The interest expense alone from all of the money we are borrowing is astounding and an expense that it completely irresponsible to pass on to other people.

wonderboy - you're right, Republicans are a bunch of idiots - the problem is that Dems haven't proven to be any smarter/wiser.

you're right. but read through these posts and see who your fellow citizens are and how they respond. wonderboy saws "yawn" because i guess he thinks that's cool. cocobea accuses another poster of being a murderer? i am afraid that the only answer is to take care of yourself and those that you care about---no help to be found here. Yawn?

columbiacounty- cocobea accuses another poster of being a murderer?

I didn't accuse the person of being a murderer. But she was advocating for the rights of murders. Of the worst kind, of the purely innocent. Of the murderer's own flesh and blood.