Month to month with no lease/written agreement - renter changes mind
Started by picketfenced
over 16 years ago
Posts: 13
Member since: Apr 2009
Discussion about
Can anyone help me out with this please? Someone who never moved in but allowed me to deposit their check as security now wants their money back. I placed an ad in early June to rent out a room month-to-month in my house (houseshare) for the 1st of July. Someone who responded came over, liked it then wrote a check to my name and we agreed she could move in on the 15th. (BTW: There's no written or... [more]
Can anyone help me out with this please? Someone who never moved in but allowed me to deposit their check as security now wants their money back.
I placed an ad in early June to rent out a room month-to-month in my house (houseshare) for the 1st of July. Someone who responded came over, liked it then wrote a check to my name and we agreed she could move in on the 15th. (BTW: There's no written or signed document in this situation. All done verbally and by email.)
Two days later, she emails and writes she can't move in now til the 15th of Aug but would pay for the 1 month in between to keep it reserved. Also writes that she's good and ok with the now-revised payment schedule in addition to the fact that I deposited the check. So far, so good.
Two weeks later she writes she can't move in at all due to "financial problems" and could I re-run the ad to find a new renter plus return the full deposit.
I've re-run the ad several times but obviously missed out on ideal timing for July 1 move-in because of her, and now nobody's around during summer vacation. I've ignored the issue about refunding the deposit and I still have nobody in there even after making good-faith efforts to re-advertise and now she threatens to take me to small claims and dock my credit score.
Is a private house owner obligated to refund a deposit if the renter decides to change her mind offering some lame excuse? She claims financial probs yet drives a brand new car. We have nothing in writing spelling out whether a deposit is refundable or not.
I've kept all emails she wrote me where she agreed to rules and payment schedule.
(BTW: Aren't vacation rentals between private parties often in the same kind of boat when there's nothing in writing?)
Thanks for your help!
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Response by columbiacounty
over 16 years ago
Posts: 12708
Member since: Jan 2009
how much money are you talking about?
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Response by picketfenced
over 16 years ago
Posts: 13
Member since: Apr 2009
Just $500 which was just over a half-month's rent of 895.
She gave me only 17 days notice prior to the move-in date of July 15 about changing her mind.
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Response by kylewest
over 16 years ago
Posts: 4455
Member since: Aug 2007
honestly, if you keep the money what can they do? Explain to the would-be renter that the position s/he left you in makes even the deposit inadquate to cover your damages and you are considering suing them but feel it isn't worth the trouble. Done.
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Response by notadmin
over 16 years ago
Posts: 3835
Member since: Jul 2008
"honestly, if you keep the money what can they do? "
does she have a chance in the small claims court? if so, $500 isn't worth the trouble.
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Response by manhattanfox
over 16 years ago
Posts: 1275
Member since: Sep 2007
Nor to her
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Response by notadmin
over 16 years ago
Posts: 3835
Member since: Jul 2008
she might need the $ to pay hte lease of her new car, lol
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Response by columbiacounty
over 16 years ago
Posts: 12708
Member since: Jan 2009
move on...ignore her threats.
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Response by Special_K
over 16 years ago
Posts: 638
Member since: Aug 2008
first off, if you have sufficient e-mail verification of your arrangement then that should suffice in small claims court to constitute an agreement. verbal can be good as well, but it's far more difficult to prove since it's your word against theirs. now to the question of damages. does the $500 constitute fair damages to you from her backing out of the rental? as kylewest says, tell the tenant that the damages far exceed the $500 deposit and that if she tries to take you to court, you will countersue for even more damages and that she will likely lose (who knows if that is true). with that, you should be fine.
as for her ruining your credit score - not going to happen. first off, she has to sue you. then she has to win. even after that, you will have time to pay her the amount of the judgment. it's only if you don't pay at that point that it would show up on your credit record. so you can tell her that her threats are empty. plus, i think the loser has to pay court fees which would add even more risk to her of taking you to court frivolously (though i'm not 100% sure on that).
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Response by alanhart
over 16 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
This person doesn't sound together or decisive enough to show up in small claims court. I think you'd be doing society and the wouldn't-be litigant a favor by not returning the deposit.
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Response by picketfenced
over 16 years ago
Posts: 13
Member since: Apr 2009
Many thanks, you guys. I agree that she sounds unsteady and weak in her argument espeically at trying to dangle these hollow threats but I wanted to make sure what the general consensus would be among such a great panel of experts and debaters here on SE!
Basically I got no more than 17 days notice on June 28 that she was changing her mind about the July 15 move-in and for me to find someone else. Her lack of sufficient notification is what I would bring into small claims if it came down to that plus since I"ve still got nobody moved in, she's the one who's breaching the verbal/email agreement at this point since she wrote that she'd pay me the rest of the $$ by July 15 and move in by August 15.
One more question: can't the definition of security deposit around here generally mean "to hold and secure the place and take the listing off the market"? She's arguing that since she never moved in, she should get back her half-month's security deposit since there was no "damage".
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Response by picketfenced
over 16 years ago
Posts: 13
Member since: Apr 2009
And yes, I would be prepared to countersue with my arguments and ask for punitive charges above $500 if I don't get someone in by August 1.
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Response by 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO
over 16 years ago
Posts: 9880
Member since: Mar 2009
Generally speaking, the L&T courts have not considered rental agreements to be finalized until the tenant "takes possession". Generally, this can be as simple at handing them the keys. however, there are several major landlords who will not give a tenant back a signed copy of their lease at the 'lease signing", but instead will MAIL the counter signed lease to the apartment, so the only way the tenant can use the lease is by getting it at the unit and thus 'proving" that they have taken possession by receiving mail there.
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Response by kylewest
over 16 years ago
Posts: 4455
Member since: Aug 2007
I am not offering legal advice here; I'm saying what I would do. Take the money, tell this person to never contact you again and that she's lucky you aren't suing HER to ruin HER credit. Period. Ignore all future contact. Worst case scenario is she somehow finds the time to sue over $500 which will take FOREVER in small claims court with repeated visits she'll have to make. Even if you get sued, you can simply write her the check at that time and be done with it. There is no point in belaboring this with her. Be done with it and tell her so.
I am ordinarily someone who likes to work things out, but this type of a move leaves nothing to work out. Sweat other stuff. Not this.
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Response by 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO
over 16 years ago
Posts: 9880
Member since: Mar 2009
on the practical end of things...... I agree with kylewest.
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Response by picketfenced
over 16 years ago
Posts: 13
Member since: Apr 2009
Thanks again, kyle and 30yrs. You clearly feel adamant about my plight and so I'm feeling much better now...
how much money are you talking about?
Just $500 which was just over a half-month's rent of 895.
She gave me only 17 days notice prior to the move-in date of July 15 about changing her mind.
honestly, if you keep the money what can they do? Explain to the would-be renter that the position s/he left you in makes even the deposit inadquate to cover your damages and you are considering suing them but feel it isn't worth the trouble. Done.
"honestly, if you keep the money what can they do? "
does she have a chance in the small claims court? if so, $500 isn't worth the trouble.
Nor to her
she might need the $ to pay hte lease of her new car, lol
move on...ignore her threats.
first off, if you have sufficient e-mail verification of your arrangement then that should suffice in small claims court to constitute an agreement. verbal can be good as well, but it's far more difficult to prove since it's your word against theirs. now to the question of damages. does the $500 constitute fair damages to you from her backing out of the rental? as kylewest says, tell the tenant that the damages far exceed the $500 deposit and that if she tries to take you to court, you will countersue for even more damages and that she will likely lose (who knows if that is true). with that, you should be fine.
as for her ruining your credit score - not going to happen. first off, she has to sue you. then she has to win. even after that, you will have time to pay her the amount of the judgment. it's only if you don't pay at that point that it would show up on your credit record. so you can tell her that her threats are empty. plus, i think the loser has to pay court fees which would add even more risk to her of taking you to court frivolously (though i'm not 100% sure on that).
This person doesn't sound together or decisive enough to show up in small claims court. I think you'd be doing society and the wouldn't-be litigant a favor by not returning the deposit.
Many thanks, you guys. I agree that she sounds unsteady and weak in her argument espeically at trying to dangle these hollow threats but I wanted to make sure what the general consensus would be among such a great panel of experts and debaters here on SE!
Basically I got no more than 17 days notice on June 28 that she was changing her mind about the July 15 move-in and for me to find someone else. Her lack of sufficient notification is what I would bring into small claims if it came down to that plus since I"ve still got nobody moved in, she's the one who's breaching the verbal/email agreement at this point since she wrote that she'd pay me the rest of the $$ by July 15 and move in by August 15.
One more question: can't the definition of security deposit around here generally mean "to hold and secure the place and take the listing off the market"? She's arguing that since she never moved in, she should get back her half-month's security deposit since there was no "damage".
And yes, I would be prepared to countersue with my arguments and ask for punitive charges above $500 if I don't get someone in by August 1.
Generally speaking, the L&T courts have not considered rental agreements to be finalized until the tenant "takes possession". Generally, this can be as simple at handing them the keys. however, there are several major landlords who will not give a tenant back a signed copy of their lease at the 'lease signing", but instead will MAIL the counter signed lease to the apartment, so the only way the tenant can use the lease is by getting it at the unit and thus 'proving" that they have taken possession by receiving mail there.
I am not offering legal advice here; I'm saying what I would do. Take the money, tell this person to never contact you again and that she's lucky you aren't suing HER to ruin HER credit. Period. Ignore all future contact. Worst case scenario is she somehow finds the time to sue over $500 which will take FOREVER in small claims court with repeated visits she'll have to make. Even if you get sued, you can simply write her the check at that time and be done with it. There is no point in belaboring this with her. Be done with it and tell her so.
I am ordinarily someone who likes to work things out, but this type of a move leaves nothing to work out. Sweat other stuff. Not this.
on the practical end of things...... I agree with kylewest.
Thanks again, kyle and 30yrs. You clearly feel adamant about my plight and so I'm feeling much better now...