L Haus

I saw the building a few weeks ago. They have most of the gym machines moved in, the yard could use more work.

i havent been inside in a few weeks, though i have driven by. the yard does need some more work, but its good to hear they have most of the gym equipment

Any input on future value for Lhaus? I'm still confused as to how the same 7 have been in contract for the past month. What is the future resell value if they are having such a hard time to sell them now!?

I know I’m biased, but in my opinion Id have to say future value would be primarily based on LIC’s growth as a whole. Though, I’ll admit that the location is less than picturesque, it’s 5 minutes from grand central and on the edge of a supposedly vibrantly growing community. Plus, the interior is exceptional compared to most of what I’ve seen in the area for that range. So as for appreciation, I think it has a fair shot. People are just, rightfully so, massively apprehensive about buying these days.

Many people have commented about the L Haus on this board and others. Most of the feedback had been that the location and design of the building were enough of a turn off to not consider buying there. No matter what happens to the neighborhood, those issues will not change. If you are concerned about re-sale, that building will always be a challenge in comparison to many other buildings in Hunter's Point. True, future growth in LIC will help the L Haus just as it will help every other building. If L Haus rates near the bottom in terms of location now, it will still rate there in the future, no matter how much the neighborhood comes up.

It seems that some folks "in the know" are disclosing that the building in 10% in contract. That is a recipe for disaster. Buildings can and have failed in NYC that were undersold. The risks to the purchaser are huge. The the developer will ALWAYS say it's a safe bet. rcap, there's no hurry to buy there. I would wait and see how sales transpire. If sales pick up, then it might be safe to jump in. If L Haus runs into trouble, then it won't be on your dime. They can't lower their prices without an agreement from their lender, and that won't happen until they go through the first round of closings, anyway. Hunters Point Condos swore they wouldn't lower their prices, but they did eventually. That's just the reality of the market.

When concerned about resale, are people more apt to buy the lower priced unit in the better neighborhood, or the higher priced unit? Where a 1br is concerned id think you’d want to be on the cheaper side. The 10% in contract is odd though. I’m intrigued to see where they’re getting their data.

Rule of thumb is not to be the cheapest or the most expensive regardless of the property. Middle priced units usually sell the fastest. Also the old rule of thumb - location, location, location. In competition on this point with other buildings in Hunter's Point, L Haus is not in the strongest position.

Seems our thumbs differ in that respect. Agreed, Lhaus is most definitely not in the strongest position by way of location; however, I believe you’re apt to see greater appreciation in comparison to buildings in slightly better locations which are already inflated in price. I’d say a lot will also depend on the experiences of future owners. If the immediate location is a true detriment to the living environment, then it will certainly reflect in resales. Another point, the building itself is one of the strongest constructed I’ve seen of this type. The amenities and unit appliances are of exceptional quality for the price.

S04, sounds like you are in the majority on that one. Everybody who has gone inside L Haus seems to be impressed by what they see. The problem the building has faced so far seems to be that most people turn around and walk away before they get to the door because they think it's in a bad location and that it's ugly. Certainly, though, quality construction is a big plus. As an owner in the neighborhood, I absolutely want L Haus to succeed along with the other buildings in Hunter's Point and hope you will be happy there in your new home.

thanks mwade, much appreciated

S04 - I agree with everything you said, but I can't get over the fact that it is not selling. At this rate will the developer be able to continue carrying all the costs? For those who will buy and close, what is going to happen after a year and the building is still half empty?

That is most certainly a valid concern. I was able to mitigate it to a point. From what I understand, assuming the condo plan contracts enough units to go “effective” and start closing, if they are unable to sustain the grounds, they may have to rent out a portion of the units to subsidize funding for the facilities. Depending on the number of units rented, this could hurt the resale value as the building will sustain more wear & tear. If the plan does not go “effective”, those in contract extract their deposits from escrow and go on their separate ways.

S04 which unit did you go with?

I'd rather not say in open forum. Leave your email and we can talk some more off-line.

Ah 1 more listing went in contract. S04 email at hrc979@aol.com

Finally another unit listed! The building looks almost finished. I spoke to the broker and they informed me that the landscaping for the yard is going on and it is really taking shape. I will probably try and see how its coming along this weekend. They seem about 99% complete with the construction.

What is the psf over at the LHaus.
I drive by it a few times a week and from the exterior, it looks complete.

It's nice to see things are moving along.

It's listed in the 600's... S04 your email is invalid

Invalid?

Yea I got your message but I can't reply to it.

hi S04, do you know if any lenders are willing to provide financing to purchasers for l haus? i spoke to a few bank agents and they tell me they won't loan until the building is 51% sold. if that's the case, what will happen when l haus finishes construction, is ready to close, but u can't find financing?

lhaus has worked deals out with 2 lenders to compensate for this situation. The brokers have the details and I recall they requested I get pre-approval before formal bidding. Their rates were not terrifying and they have been fair thusfar.

that sounds great. if the lenders and l haus worked out some deal, i assume there's some sort of mortgage contingency set place to protect the buyers? were you able to get a commitment letter from the lender or just a pre-approval?

We received both pre-approval and a commitment. There are most definitely contingencies in place, though I entrusted my attorney with that task, so I am not sure whose with whose side they originated. By the way, if anyone is in need of a fair attorney, I received mine through a referal service and he has so far been an exceptional advisor and negotiator.

Thanks for the tips S04. My friend actually paid the down on a unit at L Haus but the bank is now giving him a hard time with the commitment letter. I think he was given 30 days after he signed to provide the other side a commitment letter but for some reason, the bank thinks there is an extension on the timing and doesn't want to provide the commitment now. Seems like a big miscommunication between L Haus and the lender.

Sorry to hear. That sounds like a mess.

Could your friend use the LHaus lenders that S04 used instead?

My friend used one of the two that was recommended to him. In the rider, he is only allowed to go with those two, if he wants to keep the mortgage contigency valid. I'm guessing he'll try the other lender if the first one bails on him.

I see. Hopefully that works out for him.

koa - Have you gone any further with LHaus at all? What else have you been looking at?

My friend said thanks. S04, my friend is curious to know which lender you went with. Would you be willing to disclose?

Sure, I went with Home Mortgage. So far they have been running all of the plays with the sponsor directly, which has been helpful.

Ahh, my friend went with Bank of America. Bad choice on his part. Thanks for the info, I'll let him know.

I've been looking at all the buildings in the Hunters Point area for some time. I'm really considering the LHaus for the price and the interiors. I've been keeping track of what has been going on there so as to make a decision. I was actually just there last weekend and its about 95% done so that's promising.

At 600psf, why would you want to buy in this building?
I can list 5-6 new developments in LICC that is in the same price range with better everything!!!!

I don't getting it.

If it is listed at 600psf ideally closing will be in the 500's. Meanwhile most other buildings are listed int he 700's. Do prove me wrong tho.

CarolSt - Please list the 5-6 new developments in LIC that are in the same price range with "better everything."

I would be interested to see this as well carolst

I would be interested to know too. I called up a broker and from what he told me, L Haus has one of the lowest price per footage. Given that it's not in the best location, the interior is still well built with decent amenities relative to their common charges.

Hunter's Point Condo
Foundry
Powerhouse
5SL
10-60 Jackson
Murano (rumor prices are in the 600 psf)

The listing price doesn't mean a thing.
You should pay no more than 600-650 psf for any of the developments listed above.

I'm confused as to what you are getting at carolst. Agreed, list price has little meaning. As such, Lhaus units are contracting below 600psf. Are you arguing that Lhaus units are overpriced? Because I think you have lost me.

I think you can get better values for your money in LIC.

CarolSt - So basically you can pay 600-650 psf, after negotiations, at the condos you listed but the starting list price at LHaus is around 600 psf and obviously can be negotiated to much lower so really not in the same price range. Also, you have not specfied how the condos you listed have "better everything."

Yes, i think Lhaus is overvalued in comparison to the other buildings.
The number of units sold is also a HUGE red flag.

I agree the number of units sold is a red flag. However, I would like to get a better understanding of your assessment. Though I always enjoy when people speak in such absolutes as "better everything", would you be so kind as to elaborate? Because as of now all you’ve done is make a blanket comparison to other buildings based on a price point that does not exist and offer no detail to support your determination of the buildings value.

You still have not said anything that actually backs up your original statement

"At 600psf, why would you want to buy in this building? I can list 5-6 new developments in LICC that is in the same price range with better everything!!!!"

Price ranges are not equivalent. Also, I have been to all the condos you have listed and LHaus definitely has a better interior design and construction so not sure what makes the condos you listed "better everything."

Location, air quality wise, all the new development i listed are better.
Interior wise, at least 4 of the 6 have better interiors. Space is irrelevant in the argument because we are using psf as a measuring point.

There's a reason why this has been stuck at 10% sold & in contract over the past year when it opened for sale. Even the much hated PH on this board has sold more than 50% of the units during this span.

"Even the much hated PH on this board has sold more than 50% of the units during this span."

Last time i checked, 59 out of 178 sold is 33% and not "more than 50%".

But overall I have to agree with CarolSt *gasp* on her opinion about L Haus. The low sales rate is a sure indication of a disaster waiting to happen.

The only development that has comparable interiors is 5SL. The others are not even close to the quality of construction. It is unclear what you mean by "Space is irrelevant in the argument because we are using psf as a measuring point." If you referring to the quality of space and the quality of the build as being irrelavent then we will have to agree to disagree on its relevancy.

It is inaccurate to imply that the Powerhouse has been selling for the same amount of time as LHaus. The Powerhouse began sales a full year before Lhaus began sales. Also they were lucky that they sold the majority during 2008 since they haven't had many sales in 2009, like all the condos in LIC. The Powerhouse has been selling for 2 years now and is only at about 50%. I agree that it is a concern that they are only 10% sold so hopefully things pick up for all the new developments.

I stand corrected, 33% sold over 2 years.

Location, agreed. Air quality, I have seen no data on, but I would assume this would vary greatly depending on which side of the building you are located and at what height. If they have received clearance to living then I would be surprised if this was a noteworthy issue. Though I would certainly like to see some actual data on this as I have seen this point brought up by others, none of which appear to be in the profession of testing air quality.

What of the other building’s interior’s were you impressed with? You seem to have manifested a sizeable grudge with lhaus, so I’m assuming it is lacking something exceptional.

Further, it seems lhaus had its primary opening in late 2008, reopening earlier this year when the economic climate was seeming to improve, while Powerhouse is listed as opening Sept 2007, giving them an extra year of life span.

You people are beyond stupid.
Based on Aris, 5SL sold 38 units out of 128 units available.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/property/property_val_sales.shtml

OMFG!!

And as of today, LHaus has sold 0.

Back to the subject. Lhaus is parked right in front of the midtown tunnel entrance. You telling me the air quality in midtown tunnel is okay? Let's be serious here.

SugarStar,

Can you tell me the exact percentage of units sold for 5SL based on Acris?
There are many systems out there, not everything is report you dumbass.

Are we having the same conversation? Is anyone else confused by this outburst?

No, because you folks continue to use unreliable source as a discussion.

"Further, it seems lhaus had its primary opening in late 2008, reopening earlier this year when the economic climate was seeming to improve, while Powerhouse is listed as opening Sept 2007, giving them an extra year of life span."

Why don't you compare sales number from 2009? Easy enough.

If lhaus had the same number in contract as Powerhouse at 1/1/09 then that would be a fare comparison. However, they did not. Perception varies greatly between buildings depending on the number already in contract. Nice having an intelligent conversation with you carolst. I have greatly enjoyed your ignorance. Quite entertaining.

CarolSt, please go take your meds.

Property shark shows 152 out of 180 as sold and an additional 6 units that is recently went into contract. That brings total to 87%. Sounds about right.

Powerhouse on the other hand shows 59 sold in Property shark and most of the in contract are from 2007 meaning they are probably from buyers who have already walked away. The actual sold/in contract is probably closer to 40% but no where near the 50% you claim.

You should also talk to the owners in the Powerhouse. The noise issue is really bad. I've not seen a building that has as much noise issue as PH. It is not just hallway noise. It is in between floors. When people walk in the unit above you, it sounds like a they're beating on some drums!! 5SL does not have this problem. Lhaus I don't know since the building is not occupied. I don't know why you like PH so much but the building has serious quality issues already. Imagine what will happen when the buliding ages for a few years.

hey guys,, i'm not trying to discourage you nor am i intentionally trying to speak badly
about Lhaus...but i know on heavy rainy days the basement or garage gets flooded. There might
be plumbing issues?..(it might have been resolved now?) Also ~3months ago, i think there were
electrical issues cuz con ed was there all night making a racket in the street trying to resolve
the issue. I suggest you check all electrical and plumbing during your walk thru's....
good luck guys!

hsy - how did you learn about these building issues? I would like to know more about them.

email me tomme515@yahoo.com

thanks for the heads-up hsy. hopefully these issues have been dealt with at this point.

I have a question about the price protection program. http://www.lhauslic.com/bap/pdfs/lockIn.pdf.

Suppose there are two one-bedroom homes listed with asking prices 500k and 550k. You end up buying the 500k one-bedroom for 450k (a 10% discount to asking). One month later, the 550k one-bedroom asking price drops to 500k. A purchaser buys it for 440k. Is that now a 12% to the 500k ask or a 20% to the original 550k ask?

Depending on which asking price they choose to use, you can get a refund of either 2% or 10%. The pdf doesn't really clarify that for you.

They use the average of units sold to determine what you get as a rebate - they explain it in their prospectus..... kinda lame to be honest becuase they factor your price into the average as well and take the difference. So, of 3 similar units:

your price: $450
2nd: $440
3rd: $500

then average unit price: $463

rebate = $0 for you
but for the 3rd unit - they'd get about $37k - at least that's how it was explained to me - maybe SO4 could explain better. I threw out my paper work from them.

Thanks CTM. My friend actually told me that they include your own unit in the calculation. Problem is, I'm not sure what prices they use to do the calculations. The original asking price or the revised asking price.

It would make more sense to me if they calculate discounts off the original listed asking price. Otherwise, as the market keeps tanking, they can keep revising their asking prices, and you won't get any discount. I'm just not sure if that's true.

From what I recall reading before misplacing the offering plan amendments, I believe they're calculating off of the revised asking price, not the original, since you arent technically earning a discount on the unit until you counter the asking price and the asking price would not change during negotiations.

I haven't seen firsthand the LHaus apartments, but based on their website and on what I have seen in other buildings in the area, why do you think LHaus finishes are so much better than others? It seems like LHaus has good finishes, but in the same category as other good buildings in LIC.

I haven't seen firsthand the LHaus apartments, but based on their website and on what I have seen in other buildings in the area, why do you think LHaus finishes are so much better than others? It seems like LHaus has good finishes, but in the same category as other good buildings in LIC.

S04, if what you say is true, the price protection plan is pretty much useless. Let's say:

Suppose there are two one-bedroom homes listed with asking prices 500k (Unit A) and 550k (Unit B). You end up buying the 500k one-bedroom (Unit A) for 450k (a 10% discount to asking). One month later, due to market fluctuations, the 550k one-bedroom (Unit B) asking price drops to 300k (hypothetically, of course). The price paid for Unit B for 300k.

Date: 12/1/2009 Date: 12/1/2009
Apt: Unit A Apt: Unit B
Asking Price: $500k Asking Price: $550k
Price Paid: $450k Price Paid: not sold yet
Discount to Ask: 10% Discount to Ask: n/a

Date: 1/1/2010
Apt: Unit B
Asking Price: $300k
Price Paid: $300k
Discount to 12/1/2009 Ask: 45.45%
Discount to 1/1/2010 Ask: 0%

Logically, if Unit B dropped to 300k ask (a 45.45% drop), you would assume Unit A also dropped around that % in value. Unfortunately, if discounts are based off the final revised asking price, whoever bought Unit A will suffer a market value loss with no discounts. Just a thought...

Wc3cone- in your example, assuming my understanding was correct, then yes, the price protection plan would be fairly useless. This might be worth following up with the broker.  
Liccomment- I hadn't spent much time on the website because I've found that brokers are too easily able to manipulate impressions this way.   I don't believe it's so much that the finishings exceed other buildings, as much as you are getting finishings equivalent, if not better than, the higher priced buildings. The unit appliances caught my attention as better quality than many of the other buildings. I was pleased with the construction, which passed our brief attempt at noise testing. I am particularly sensitive to adjascent noise and found Lhaus to perform exceptionally in that area. 

LICComment - I think it comes down to the architects choice of finishes and the quality of construction. It's something that you have to see for yourself though. All of the condos have some quality finishes, but I think it comes down to specific choices in finishes that add to the design and the overall quality of living at the LHaus. Also, I did go to most of the new developments in the area with a construction project manager, who has a lot of experience in residential builds, and he was impressed with the quality of construction at the LHaus. Of course no one really knows what it's like to live there so really it comes down to personal preference.

Anyone have the latest from a meeting or open house this weekend?

No, I was not able to make it over there this weekend. I'm hoping to discuss the price protection with teh brokers sometime this week. Is there specific information you are looking for or to be updated on?

Mainly just sales and occupancy.

I'll be asking them that too so if I get an update I'll post it

Oh, koa, if you find out more about the price protection plan, please do tell. You might also want to inquire about any changes in their common charges. They haven't updated it in a year and I don't think they're obligated to update it as long as the estimate is less than a 25% hike. Still something worth discussing about, imo.

Agreed. I'll post whatever I find out.

Okay so with the price protection, it is taken from an average of the same line of units and it is on the revised pricing as well. Other than that it is still confusing to me. I asked about sales and was told there are more contracts pending, but not exact number of how many. I forgot to ask about the common charges, sorry! Also, I saw an interesting ad in the Metro that said Immediate Occupancy. Any ideas on what that's all about? I was thinking the rent-to-own people and all cash buyers can move in since they received their TCO.

Hi Koa, thanks for the info! Hmm, if based on revised pricing, then the price protection plan is basically useless. It's protecting you against changes in the bid ask price, not on market fluctuations. i.e. exaggerated hypothetical: your unit's ask was 500k, u paid 450k, u got a 10% discount. a comparable unit also drops to 10 bucks, someone pays 9 bucks, comparable discount = 10%. u get $0 refund. makes no sense, imo.

I think what you said is right. Immediate occupany is going to be for rent-to-own people and all cash buyers. Banks won't finance until 51% of units are closed, so actual purchasers in need of financing definitely won't be moving in any time soon.

wc3 - I think their preferred lenders will finance under 51% but I think they are still waiting on an effective offering plan.
I never bothered to ask, but does anyone know how much they are charging for rent to own on any of their units?

Hmm, let's hope their preferred lenders are willing to finance under 51% and are not subject to the same fannie and freddie loan guidelines. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124562533240635581.html.
I never asked about their rent either. Would be interested if someone knows.

I was told one of their preferred lenders will finance under 51%. I haven't asked about their rent to own either.

With their preferred lenders, once their plan goes effective at 15% in contract, they'll supply financing.

Do they have 15% in contract?

It looks like their at about 7% right now. However, the brokers were throwing around 10% a couple weeks ago, so there are supposedly more in the hopper.

Hmm, they only seem to have 8 out of 122 units in contract (6.6%). Not sure if all the ones in contract are listed though. Does anyone know if they calculate the % off number of units over total units OR dollar value of units over total value of all units?

Number of units over total units i believe.

They've been using this 10% number for the past 3 months. I'm starting to believe it is/was exaggerated..or finally reaching 10%.

I wonder if they would have a fire sale soon just to reach that 15%. There must be some deadline for their plan to become effective. Does anyone know?

They'll have a hard time selling. Maybe if they take prices into the mid 400s.

From my understanding they are waiting for about 5 contracts to go through so they can reach the 10%. Also I think they have received more contracts recently which will take time to go through. They do not seemed worried about meeting their 15%.

Since the building is almost 90-95% done, why is it that only 26 units are listed in prudential and streeteasy? Wouldn't it be better to list all 122 units? I'm guessing this is a marketing strategy? To slowly list prices and test the market?

Pure strategy. Sell off blocks in sequence.

Quick question: The plan needs to be effective (15% under contract) before anyone can move in? That includes all-cash buyers and rent-to-own renters? If that's the case, then immediate occupany in Fall might not happen.

I guess that strategy works if they can sell 18-19 out of the 26 units listed. Since 8 are already in contract, they'll need 10-11 more to reach the 15%. Listing more units might help their chances of appealing to more buyers. Let's hope they know what they're doing.

Yes, the plan needs to be effective in before they can get the TCO. If they don't meet the deadline for the plan to be effective, they will have to refile the plan with the AG and try again next year - that's how long it takes. Of course they are saying to their buyers that they aren't worried. Do you expect them to say otherwise? These units have been on the market for over a year, and only 8 units sold. I wouldn't assume that deadline is safe. BTW, having gone through the process myself, most developers find the TCO to be more elusive than they expect. No way anyone will be moving in before the holidays ( at least Thanksgiving ) .

Found this on facebook. http://www.facebook.com/pages/New-York-NY/L-haus/91606252088?v=info.
Has pics of a model apt. Aside from that, nothing new.

I think it was mentioned the TCO has been issued, but at this point the offering plan isn't in effect.