Critics were right: We tax payers are never getting our TARP $$ back

This sounds like number 8 on Patrick's list in action (Patrick.net)

"8. Shortage of first-time buyers. From The Herald: "We were all corrupted by the housing boom, to some extent. People talked endlessly about how their houses were earning more than they did, never asking where all this free money was coming from. Well the truth is that it was being stolen from the next generation. Houses price increases don't produce wealth, they merely transfer it from the young to the old - from the coming generation of families who have to burden themselves with colossal debts if they want to own, to the baby boomers who are about to retire and live on the cash they make when they downsize."

High house prices have been very unfair to new families, especially those with children. It is foolish for them to buy at current prices, yet government leaders never talk about how lower house prices are good for pretty much everyone except bankers, instead preferring to sacrifice American families to make sure bankers have plenty of debt to earn interest on. If you own a house and ever want to upgrade, you benefit from falling prices because you'll save more on your next house than you'll lose in selling your current house. Every "affordability" program drives prices higher by pushing buyers deeper into debt. To really help Americans, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should be completely eliminated, along with the mortgage-interest deduction. Canada has no mortgage-interest deduction at all, and has a more affordable and stable housing market because of that.

The government keeps house prices unaffordably high through programs that increase buyer debt, and then pretends to be interested in affordable housing. No one in government except Ron Paul ever talks about the obvious solution: less debt and lower house prices. The real result of every "affordability" program is to keep you in debt for the rest of your life so that you have to keep working. Lower house prices would liberate millions of people from decades of labor each. There is never anything in the press about the millions of people that were hurt and continue to be hurt by high house prices.

The government pretends to be interested in affordable housing, but now that housing is becoming affordable, they want to stop it? Their actions speak louder than their words. "

U.S. Profit on AIG Climbs to $22.7 Billion on Share Sale

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-12-11/u-dot-s-dot-profit-on-aig-climbs-to-22-dot-7-billion-on-share-sale

Does that include the paying off CDS swaps at full value?

"Does that include the paying off CDS swaps at full value?"

Tin foil hat wearers return! "Yes", basic accounting is all you need to know "yes" is the answer. AIG paid those off, the government invested in AIG, the governent is selling its stake in AIG for $22B more than what they put in. Whether AIG paid of CDS in full or lit dollar bills on fire does not matter.

You cannot double-count the CDS payments, BTW. Again, basic accounting, nothing more.

NO AIG never wrote a check to the gov't to cover the Tim Geithner's payment to Goldman.

Riversider:
jason has his knickers in a twist tonight.
He's on that other thread (that you started, btw) claiming to yikes, that he's had me "on ignore" for 2 years.

jason is upset that NYCNovice made fun of the "retard helmet" comment posted by huntersburg and now he's throwing his lot in with yikes (formerly "Wbottom") and bullshitting about how "90%" of my comments posted on se are "insults" (not to him, specifically).
What a load of doody!

Riversider, you're a regular. Can you pinpoint the comment I posted 2 years ago that made it all go so wrong with jason and I?

"TARP", spelled backwards = "PRAT".
That's what jason is being tonight here on streeteasy.

"NO AIG never wrote a check to the gov't to cover the Tim Geithner's payment to Goldman."

WTF are you talking about? AIF wrote those checks. That reduced AIG's cash balance and AIG's market value. AIG was the entity, not the UST. The UST got a stake in AIG, and made a profit. The UST never wrote a check for CDS, AIG did.

Let's say Riversider loaned Riverider's brother $10,000, but said in return, Riversider's brother needed to pay off child support back payments of $5,000 to Riversider's former sister in law. With interest, Riversider's brother pays Riversider $12,000. End of story. Riversider's former sister in law DOES NOT owe Riversider $5,000 or a penny.

Better yet - Let's say Riversider loaned Riverider's brother $100,000, but said in return, Riversider's brother needed to pay off child support back payments of $5,000 to Riversider's former sister in law. AND RS had to sign over 10% of the proceeds from Riverider's brother's condo sale. Riverider's brother sells his condo for $1.5MM. Riverider's brother pays Riversider $150,0000. End of story.

Riversider's former sister in law DOES NOT owe Riversider $5,000 or a penny.

Let's say jason's bullshit about having me "On ignore for maybe the last 2 years..."

What was my comment that insulted you into doing that, jason?

Just answer the question, jason. You know that you're reading this.

Way too subtle for RS.

Truth was right: jason got caught bullshitting and we're never going to get an anaswer to my question because he doesn't have one.

http://climateerinvest.blogspot.com/2012/12/huge-aig-bailout-profit-misleading-says.html

In an email to The Huffington Post, Barofsky called the government's profit estimate "misleading" because nearly a third of the AIG stock that the Treasury is selling came from the Federal Reserve, not from the Treasury's bailout program. What's more, Barofsky says, the taxpayer stands to lose money from a waiver it gave to AIG on billions in future tax payments.

But other than that, Barofsky conceded, the AIG bailout was not a disaster for the taxpayer profit-and-loss-wise.

Sigh. Sigh. Sigh. 100% of the profits the Federal Reserve make from ANYTHING are remitted to...wait for it...the US Treasury. Always.

"...The U.S. Government receives all of the system's annual profits, after a statutory dividend of 6% on member banks' capital investment is paid, and an account surplus is maintained. In 2010, the Federal Reserve made a profit of $82 billion and transferred $79 billion to the U.S. Treasury.[22] This was followed at the end of 2011 with a transfer of $77 billion in profits to the U.S. Treasury Department.[23]..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System

So jason, why don't you tell Riversider to "STFU"!?
As you always like to do when you're insulting commenters who don't agree with you?

Good lord,RS , can you EVER represent things accurately with decent sourcing?

HOLY MOSES, JESUS and MARY, Riversider!
You are a failure in the eyes of the biggest failure on streeteasy.

MARY, JESUS and JOSEPH, Riversider!

"Just chant in the name of The Lord
and you'll be free..."

Riversider: Give me three Hail Marys.
Or two Hail Josephs.
Or just one Hail Jesus.

Just try to redeem yourself, O.K.?!

In truth it would seem that there is a new troll/bully on SE

is she a real new yorker?

Tarp money, IMO, was money well spent. The economy is much better because of it. How many of you complainers have ever paid Billions in Billions of dollars in taxes and provided jobs to millions. Get over yourselves.

only to fool the retards such as jason

definitely an attention seeking bully troll

While I agree with Jason's sentiment over conspiracy theorists, this is a crappy outcome relative to the risk taken by the US as a pure investment. The return was what, like 3% annualized, for taking an about-to-be insolvent company with a wiped-out balance sheet. Meanwhile, indices of blue chip companies returned 20+% a year over the same timeframe.

Of course, that point seems too subtle for the masses to understand, which is presumably why they push it so hard.

are you people for real. I'd take 3% or even 0% for not having millions of people unemployed, for saving the tax base.

inonada:
ph41 may call you "a POS" again for that comment you just posted.

Sure Inonada, but the original goal post set by RS and his favorite pundits was that it would LOOSE tens of billions for the govt and we'd never get out money back. So even breaking g even is WAY better than what RS predicted originally. But you are right - the US should have gotten 99.9% of AIG, not just 85%. They had no bargaining power then.

stupid way to look at this in isolation - AIG returned money because the fed flushed the economy/market with cash and lifted all asset values by using lots of debt on the other side. So AIG benefited from asset inflation but debt stayed on another entity - US taxpayers.
This is as if I bot a house and then bot 10 more houses in the vicinity which lifted all asset values and then I came back boasting how much i made on the first house.

Where is somewherelse and samadams????? 150b "lost forever".....ahhhh, the memories.....

truth, dont let them distract you--we are desperate to hear more stories about you and all your famous friends, and what an important part of the entertainment industry you are.

Of course you are desperate, wbottom/yikes.
That's why you continue to troll me with your requests.

3% beats the 10 year.

And RS's returns on his savings account.

The taxpayer doesn't get its taxes back because they are taxes and support government spending. Taxpayers know this.

oh, truth, what's few seconds when you spend hours here, offering your frumpy trite-isms for any who dont ignore you--which i do, largely

whatever..more important stuff: i'd do anything for a backstage pass. you must be a playa what with all those passes you always get!

tommytone>> are you people for real. I'd take 3% or even 0% for not having millions of people unemployed, for saving the tax base.

Sure, that's why I said "pure investment". I'm not disagreeing with the need to do what was done. However, when you have a story based on a measly $23B profit making it a great "investment" for Uncle Sam, then let's set the right goalposts. Otherwise, we should be talking about the trillion+ dollar loss in GDP avoided for not letting it all go to shit.

aboutready>> 3% beats the 10 year.

Not by a long shot. The 10-year bond has returned about 40% since the AIG bailout. If the govt had simply bought or not issued $180B, the profit would have been $72B to date.

Now compare that $72B profit on a safe investment (US govt debt) against the $23B profit for taking a risk on an insolvent company with an empty balance sheet.

truth, wow. truly pathetic. off the charts crazy.

When will you be on stage?

Wave

Nope

Look, nada, I've been heavily invested in treasury bond funds. And I'm up over 10% on the year in with a relatively safe investment. But the yield has been piss poor.

And as much as it has always irritated me, I agree we could not have let it all go to shit. I'm just not sure how our financial system was made better by further consolidating the holdings into fewer institutions with lalmost no ramifications for the reckless behavior of the previous decade.

Wow. Again?

oh frumpy truth--stuck in bay ridge while the party you so desperately wish you could attend goes on.............without you

groupie wannabeeeee!!!

a few seconds of effort yields gobs of entertaining meltage

for now tho, ill get back to reading the less entertaining, yet more interesting parts of this thread

post on, frumpy!!

truth, you on a bathroom break?? time to change the rubber diapers? in your rubber room? yes, truly pathetic.

Hey rangersfan, your epidermis is showing.

wbottom/yikes and rangersfan, together again.

Both envious of anybody who works in the music business.

Gotta take a bathroom break at least a few times during a six-hour show.
People backstage checking e-mails and some were laughing at the envious comments posted by wbottom/yikes/rangersfan.

Easy to see how envious wbottom/yikes/rangersfan is.
They so desperately wanted to be invited to the concert and hang out backstage.
Never going to happen.

You notice how they've regressed back to trying to claim I'm lying about who I am/what I do/where I go?

The "pathetic" thing is "truly" their envy.

hahahaha, keeps getting better. youre like the female version of tom hanks the roadie for aerosmith on snl. "syllabus, syllabus". "check, syllabussssssss". thats as close as you get to "working" in the music bz....that sounds like a real eclectic group you hang with "backstage". reading se posts between sets, very believable. ahahahaahahaa.

We read many websites backstage, including se discussions.
We check e-mail and blogs while we relax.

There are computers set up in every VIP lounge and dressing room.

"between sets"?! You don't even know whatTF you're writing about.
There was no "between sets", you moron.

You wouldn't know what goes on backstage because you've never been and will never be there.
Your continued efforts to claim that I don't work in the music biz has been exposed as bullshit long ago.
hahaha, you're an envious a-hole.

I haven't been home in Bay Ridge since Thursday morning. I'm certainly not "stuck" there.
When I do go home I'll have friends coming over to visit from Manhattan. They like visiting me in Brooklyn.

You are the one who is "stuck" in your bullshitting envy.
With all of the money you make, you can't buy what you want the most: to be a part of something interesting.
To be invited to events, even if you aren't working on the event.
To have friends who are talented and interesting.

You are an envious, angry loser.
Go count your money, a-hole.

get the paramedics.

huntersburg: rangersfan popped up, again.
He's an expert on what goes on backstage at benefit concerts.

I went home at 5am, got a change of clothes and went back to Manhattan, to stay at a beautiful townhouse in the East 60s.
Today was a big shopping day, taking out-of-town friends to holiday shop.
That a-hole, rangersfan is "hahahaing", writing about "between sets".
A moron, many times over.

not even hb wants to be associated with you.

^^c.c. is here.^^
No surprise.
He's getting hard because he's posting within a minute of me.
Maybe NYCNovice will be here soon to chat with him.
She "Continues to be captivated by his brilliance..."

rangersfan is "between sets" right now.

oh frumpy!! (truth)...how exciting....shopping with the stars...between runs home to bay ridge to change!!!! (dont forget the diapers!!!...they get a stench on em after a couple of days)

seems you may have a touch of money envy, no?

^^ It's wbottom/yikes, who was posting comments 2 hours ago (that would about be 8am) on several threads trying to insult me.
He was dreaming all night of posting first thing in the morning because he can't get his envy out of his mind.
He's so creative that he's started calling me "frumpy", soon he'll revert back to his baby-talk insults.

"Shopping with the stars"? I didn't go shopping with the stars, I went with friends visiting from out of town.
wbottom/yikes' head spins with envy at my mention of having friends.

"money envy" of wbottom/yikes?!
I just woke up and I'm having breakfast in a beautiful Manhattan townhouse that wbottom/yikes could not afford
even if he worked another 100 years.
He certainly wouldn't be invited as a house guest and probably sits at home in his rental apartment writing the alimony check wishing and dreaming.

Meanwhile, he gives advice to JWL, telling him he should move because JWL "can't afford the lifestyle you aspire to here in NYC..."

My apartment in Bay Ridge is beautiful. I have plenty of money and the freedom to spend it wherever and however I want. I get to travel and go to events that wbottom/yikes would never be invited to attend.

He and rangersfan are "between sets".

I agree with Jbutton above. No one (especially the wall street guys I talk to) seems to even take into account the bad paper the governemnt bought sight unseen. We will be paying that off for a long time (though the wall street response is some people are making good money trading that)

Now the banks climb back to profitability and take credit; at the same time their expense cutting is largely low level jobs.

"I agree with Jbutton above. No one (especially the wall street guys I talk to) seems to even take into account the bad paper the governemnt bought sight unseen. We will be paying that off for a long time (though the wall street response is some people are making good money trading that)"

And yet as I posted above, the Fed has made an $80B PROFIT the last two years. There is no mystery here.

I don't think that number reflects the impact of the bad paper the government took over - just the straight loan

"I don't think that number reflects the impact of the bad paper the government took over - just the straight loan"

It is detailed on the treasury website - it includes sales of assets too. They are probably held at book, but thus far they have been sold at a profit.

whaa--jason, what did you do to be rendered gray? you get annoyed from time to time, but tend to avoid the ugliness.

Jason went from black to gray?

When the government talks about having bailed out AIG, it needs to fully account for choices it took against the choices it did not take. By bailing out AIG it also decided to extend tax credits and paid off swaps to Goldman Sachs at full value. Had the gov't not bailed out AIG, shareholders of Goldman and the bond holders would have bore that burden. The change in taxes to benefit AIG is at the expense of tax payers. And for those who say we needed to do what we did for the benefit of the system, for more than a decade or two, the United States has followed that logic, and ironically the bail outs get larger and larger. What's next?

truth removed??? such a sad yet familiar ending for her. white coats, restraints and rubber diapers on the christmas list again this year.....

Kind of ironic coming from a hockey fan.

NHL cancels schedule through Dec. 30
Monday, 12.10.2012 / 2:05 PM / News
NHL.com

NEW YORK -- The National Hockey League announced today the cancellation of the 2012-13 regular-season schedule through December 30. The cancellations are necessary due to the absence of a new Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NHL Players' Association and the NHL.

A total of 526 regular-season games—42.8 percent of the season—were scheduled for October 11 through December 30.

I'm not getting the irony.

I'm not gray to me

I'm not gray to myself either. AR either.

AR I know you don't like Truth, but I think you do get the irony of such comments coming from Rangers fan.

Jason's not gray, nor grey. Maybe I'm just being slow, but no, the irony is not apparent to me.

frumpy dove on a sword again. she is drawn to it.

jason, you have been rendered gray, i assure you. log out and go to se without logging in. You will see yourself as gray.

were it me, id not be particularly surprised, given my low ration of meaningful vs incendiary posts. but, jason, as cranky as you can get, your ratio is generally quite high.

hey maybe im gray. ill log off and see. i find it kind of prestigious, frankly.

not gray yet---some day

Indeed, someday one again.

onCe again

bye truth

Ding dong the truth is gone

Where is alanhart lately? I like alanhart.

"Ding dong"?
Selling Avon?

rangersfan writing about my "sad ending"?

yikes saying "bye" to me?

Sounds like they've been in a group-grope.

AIG seems to be touting its financial stability and responsibility paying back the taxpayer. Not sure any longer what the concern could still be in retrospect.
http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/aig-uses-ad-campaign-to-thank-taxpayers-for-bailout-85616.html

"Thank you, taxpayer, for having such little financial sense. How else could we so brazenly tout as a success a meager 2.7% annual return for investing in an insolvent company that no one else would touch?"

Thank you, inonada:
for bumping up this discussion wherein wbottom/yikes, apt23 and the bored housewife aboutready all had a group-grope while hoping that their dreams of me being "gone" from streeteasy would enhance their bored, enchanted real-life lives.

fvck omaba

"UPDATE 5-Fannie Mae to send $59.4 billion to U.S. Treasury...The report from Fannie Mae, which recorded pretax income of $8.1 billion, came just a day after its smaller rival and fellow state ward Freddie Mac said it would be making a $7 billion dividend payment to the government...The latest payments from the two government-controlled companies will slash the net cost of their nearly $188-billion taxpayer-funded bailout to just $55.8 billion. That could drop by another $30.1 billion soon if Freddie Mac follows Fannie Mae in recognizing deferred tax assets it had written down."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/09/usa-fanniemae-results-idUSL2N0DQ1HZ20130509

Another bump by "jason10006", no less:
wbottom/yikes, apt23, the bored, frustrated alkie housewife and the recent nitwit addition to streeteasy:
all in the grey zone.
They sit in the corner with their dunce caps on their heads.

*hic*

of course, troll alanhart is drunk. It's 9:41 EST on a beautiful Friday night in NYC.

Tsk tsk, DRINKING ... on a Friday evening, no less! The world is going to heck in a hambasket.

Temperance spinsters of Demerita, unite!

Nobody responded to Jason's post this week about Water Street.

trollalanhart the spinster who has no social life is home alone again on a Friday night, trolling on se.

Maybe Jason can invite him on a date to Water Street for next Friday night.

There's no subtlety to your posting, truth. No self-awareness. I love how you call people losers for posting at "9:41 EST" on a Friday night while you are posting at the same time AND again two hours later. I know you are mentally ill, but have you NO perspective?

and here's aboutready, posting at 4:40pm EST on a Sat. afternnoon. I wasn't posting a comment to nor about her
yesterday night.

aboutready is a master of subtlety and self-awareness. Just read her SE comments over the past years: cursing bitching and moaning.

Not only is she a bored, frustrated, unemployable alkie housewife; she's home alone again on another weekend afternoon.
She had to "jump through major hoops" to buy an apartment in Williamsburg.

aboutready has no concept of the time difference between Maui, the West Coast, NYC and Europe. Nor does she have business e-mails to check and reply to. Her only reason to be on her computer is to troll for fights on streeteasy.

She was sent to an institution after her daughter was born, for fear that "the child" would be harmed by her.
Not only is she still mentally ill but she has no perspective.

Any update on the TARP?

Why don't you use the Internet google machine to see if you can self-soothe rather than posting an open-ended question on an old thread? Maybe you could even share what you discover.

I'm trying crowdsourcing.

Maybe it's because you're so prolific, but you're not getting a lot of responses to your random questions on the old threads that you seem to be resurrecting for little to no apparent reason. Reflect on that.

All I'm after is you, dear.

We got all the TARP money back, plus interest.
All the auto bailout and AIG money has also been paid back.

We got all the TARP money back, plus interest.
All the auto bailout and AIG money has also been paid back.
--------------------------------------------

Only if you don't fully account for the true costs borne by the tax payer.

>Only if you don't fully account for the true costs borne by the tax payer.

huh?

LAMB: But we’ve been given the impression that the TARP money has been paid back.

BAROFSKY: Well, a lot of the TARP money hasn’t been paid back.

LAMB: Has or hasn’t?

BAROFSKY: Has not. We still have, you know, exposure to AIG, to General Motors. I think there’s still hundreds of banks that have not repaid their TARP funds. We still have that HAMP program, is still limping along. It’s now at a glacial pace. I think it’s like 8,000 or 12,000 a month that are getting at it. But that’s still an active program...

http://www.q-and-a.org/Transcript/?ProgramID=1410