[non-Manhattan] Foreclosed properties go for 14 cents on dollar

Interesting article especially this line "Foreclosures in the five boroughs were up 14.8% in July, to 2,192, from the same time last year, according to market research firm RealtyTrac." b/c everyone keeps saying there are no foreclosures at all in NYC.

ha, i checked, didn't see it, then posted. And you beat me by a couple minutes...

"b/c everyone keeps saying there are no foreclosures at all in NYC."

NO, everyone, myself included, says there are no foreclosures in MANHATTAN (prime Manhattan to be exact).

Just b/c there haven't been any foreclosures in 'prime' Manhattan real estate so far doesn't mean there won't be. This real estate bust is far from over.

Keep your eye on HAMPTONS Lot of second Homeys from Manhattan are being annihilated !! PRICE CHOPS in September will be gory Yippie for us nonowners!!

people here have been predicting mass foreclosures in Manhattan for over a year now. There comes a time when you just have to throw in the towel.

Just like some people have been searching for sales that defy market trends for, what, the past 6 months? How's that thread working out?

"NO, everyone, myself included, says there are no foreclosures in MANHATTAN (prime Manhattan to be exact)."

And that "everyone" has been shown to be a total moron... because we already have 'em.

I don't know the result but there was a definite foreclosure back in May at 2 east 12th st.
It was combined ground floor apts and backyard.
The bank was Emigrant.

2 east 12th st in manhattan not brooklyn. ;)

so then please find me a heavily doscounted foreclosure in prime Manhattan nyc10022 (no more than 50 cents on the dollar) and I will buy the place right now. Hell, I'll even offer full asking price. Come on, post a link. You won't. And that's because your just pulling stuff out of your rear again.

and how much was the property discounted truthskr10?

Like I said. I didn't follow it. I don't know what the end result was.
There is about one or two foreclosures a week you'll find in the NY post notice section.
(south of 96th street)
Foreclosures can be messy, and not a route I'm looking to obtain an apartment by personally.
And I thought Marc Dreier's highly public foreclosure went for a lot of money.

The fact is there is an upswing in manhattan foreclosures. Remember foreclosures are a last resort.
There are still months of short sale attempts that will be on the way.
What happens to all those townhouses (commercial) with ground stores and 8 apartments above that idiots were paying 1300 per foot including apartments with rent stabilized tenants and air rights as if they were built out already.
Foreclosure or stay on toxic asset list, whichever way you want to view them, banks cannot remain on "pause" forever. This market will return to a base on income market and scrap "future and potential" purchasing.
It's not a matter of bulls and bears, it's law of gravity.

Like I said. I didn't follow it. I don't know what the end result was.
There is about one or two foreclosures a week you'll find in the NY post notice section.
(south of 96th street)
Foreclosures can be messy, and not a route I'm looking to obtain an apartment by personally.
And I thought Marc Dreier's highly public foreclosure went for a lot of money.

The fact is there is an upswing in manhattan foreclosures. Remember foreclosures are a last resort.
There are still months of short sale attempts that will be on the way.
What happens to all those townhouses (commercial) with ground stores and 8 apartments above that idiots were paying 1300 per foot including apartments with rent stabilized tenants and air rights as if they were built out already.
Foreclosure or stay on toxic asset list, whichever way you want to view them, banks cannot remain on "pause" forever. This market will return to a base on income market and scrap "future and potential" purchasing.
It's not a matter of bulls and bears, it's law of gravity.

sorry for double post ..having streeteasy access problems today

The foreclosure auctions in the newspaper you don't want any part of. Many of them have liens against them, tenants in them, and in most cases the property goes back to the bank the auction is delayed (I have seen foreclosure auctions in northern NJ depayed for as much as 2 years).

Yeah but those are the ones that go for 50%.
Because you have to spend 6 months to 2 years getting possession or giving the tenant the money you would spend to evict them.
Nothing is free, but you pay much less for a mess.

The "clean foreclosures" are only around 20% discounted, basically the original deposit.
And with properties approaching underwater, the banks are going to be pressured in the next 6 months to start acting.

Look I am a buyer and of course I want to buy at a cheaper price. I also live in NY all my life and want to see this city succeed. I'd rather business was great and pay more for an apartment and have it appreciate in value. I just don't see how that is possible for at least the next 2 years.
Too many bumps ahead, commercial real estate, ZERO interest rate (It can only go up), banks playing with their asset columns,(shadow)inventory,etc.

sunclaus
"Keep your eye on HAMPTONS Lot of second Homeys from Manhattan are being annihilated !! PRICE CHOPS in September will be gory Yippie for us nonowners!!"

There is some truth to that. From what I've seen and heard out East, September onwards looks like it's going to be a disaster. Those who can live out east(and vice versa) may put up both for sale and first come first serve.

I'm also now considering if a steal comes up out east, I'll buy there and get a long term lease in manhattan.

but I thought there is no foreclosures in Manhattan because it's lien theory, not title theory (did I get that right?) like CA. Banks can't evict the distressed owners who defaulted...and it takes 2 years for foreclosure to show up in record in Manhattan..? something like that. hence, does that mean that these foreclosed properties were defaulted on 2 years ago and banks are now just able to sell them as foreclosed properties?

"

I don't know the result but there was a definite foreclosure back in May at 2 east 12th st.
It was combined ground floor apts and backyard.
The bank was Emigrant.

2 east 12th st in manhattan not brooklyn. ;)"

You sure it actually occurred? I've been following that piece for at least 6 years and every year or so it comes up and the auction gets canceled just before it's scheduled to occur each time.

BTW there are 7 Coop foreclosures scheduled in Manhattan this week.

"The foreclosure auctions in the newspaper you don't want any part of. Many of them have liens against them, tenants in them, and in most cases the property goes back to the bank the auction is delayed (I have seen foreclosure auctions in northern NJ depayed for as much as 2 years)."

He is absolutely correct. Everyone should steer WAAAYYY clear of these.

"but I thought there is no foreclosures in Manhattan because it's lien theory, not title theory (did I get that right?) like CA. Banks can't evict the distressed owners who defaulted...and it takes 2 years for foreclosure to show up in record in Manhattan..? something like that. hence, does that mean that these foreclosed properties were defaulted on 2 years ago and banks are now just able to sell them as foreclosed properties"

Not exactly: once foreclose, the bank or whoever gets the property can evict the former owner in a holdover proceeding. But in NY the banks have to bring a case in Supreme Court to foreclose to begin with 9with Real Property, not coops where non-judicial foreclosures can happen in 3 weeks). the fastest this is going to occur is about 6 to 9 months, and that's with not fighting by the party getting foreclosed on. My "nightmare scenario" is a piece we bought "on the steps" in February 2001 and didn't get possession of till Spring 2008 (with the foreclosed owner in place paying absolutely nothing the entire time).

"My "nightmare scenario" is a piece we bought "on the steps" in February 2001 and didn't get possession of till Spring 2008 (with the foreclosed owner in place paying absolutely nothing the entire time)."

Wow, but what legal basis does the foreclosed owner have to fight against you in court, that could possibly last for 7 years?

"My "nightmare scenario" is a piece we bought "on the steps" in February 2001 and didn't get possession of till Spring 2008 (with the foreclosed owner in place paying absolutely nothing the entire time)."

Wow, but what legal basis does the foreclosed owner have to fight against you in court, that could possibly last for 7 years?

Yes 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO please let us know. I am so curious as to how anyone can hold up a proceeding for that long. Also thanks too for the clarification on foreclosures in NYC. I knew some were happening, we just aren't hearing about them all yet.

And while you're at it, is it similarly difficult to evict the former owner in other NYS counties (not NYC)?

"Wow, but what legal basis does the foreclosed owner have to fight against you in court, that could possibly last for 7 years? "

Basically none. It's why I make statements about the courts being so fucked up and people here quote me back the law as it is written. He went after several of the judges personally and scared them into recusing themselves for stupid reasons (Judge Diamond for one).

shanahanlaw.com/misc/DeRosavsChase.pdf

xoominfo.com/people/DeRosa_Anthony_342408472.aspx

http://www.judicialaccountability.org/derosa1stdep%27tdecision3-23-04.htm

caught.net/caught/brewster.htm

zoominfo.com/people/Diamond_Marylin_249313790.aspx

nytimes.com/2003/03/29/nyregion/fbi-investigates-judge-s-decisions-for-defendant-officials-say.html

judicialaccountability.org/derosafirstdeptmotion.pdf

christianparty.net/jewishjudges.htm

judicialaccountability.org/articles/diamondnyjudgeprobedbyfbi.htm

zoominfo.com/people/Shanahan_Tom_136280522.aspx ("The Appellate Division, First Department, sanctioned David B. Cohen $2,000 and Thomas D. Shanahan $250 for frivolous conduct while representing Anthony DeRosa, who has been challenging the foreclosure on his Manhattan apartment by Chase Manhattan Mortgage Corp. ")

myshingle.com/2005/02/articles/judges-and-court-news/lawyer-sanctioned-for-disclosing-what-a-judge-should-have/

brennancenter.org/content/elert/case_with_ethical_overtones_for_ny_judges_takes_bizarre_turn/

nydailynews.com/archives/news/2003/10/02/2003-10-02_new_facet_in_case_vs__diamond.html

judicialreports.com/2007/12/post_84.php

30yrs
"You sure it actually occurred? I've been following that piece for at least 6 years and every year or so it comes up and the auction gets canceled just before it's scheduled to occur each time."

No I'm not. Like I said I didn't follow it through. I remember at the time googling the name of the owner and and found this crazy case of him being involved in some blood diamond situation where many people were killed in another country. He put the apartment as collateral with a lender who's financing ended up funding this blood diamond operation!!
After reading the case, I just turned away from the property.

Ok, I found the court case. It reads like a movie script.
If I didn't read it myself I'd swear someone made it up.

http://www.nysb.uscourts.gov/opinions/jmp/151266_8_opinion.pdf

As far as the actual foreclosure, it looks like the wife may have enough teeth to keep the monkey wrench into a sale.

LuchiasDream
This case is an example of how a periphal criminal case could hold up possession for several years.

30yrs

I think you'll find footnotes 1 and 2 will explain away 5 of those 6 years you were following. :)

I know, I know none of this has any effect on Manhattan Real Estate http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/17/AR2009081703035.html

Yeah right, we'll see what the market is like this WInter.

truthskr10: you might think this is uncomon, but it's really rather typical (not the blood diamond part - LOL ). Even when foreclosures were happening at over 100 a week, a HUGE percentage of announced sales got canceled (and almost always at the last second.

But there's a very good reason for this: Coops are non-judicial sales, so what happens is the START of the case is the scheduling of a foreclosure sale, then the owner starts a suit to stop it. With real property, there has to be a Supreme Court case and a judgment BEFORE the sale can be scheduled. As a result, you see MANY less real property foreclosure auctions getting canceled than Coops.

I guess no one bothered to look at those links I put up.

30yrs
I am somewhat familiar. I've bought commercial foreclosures(on the steps) in brooklyn and queens in the past. I'm well aware of the differences in manahattan.
Though I had a friend in the early to mid 90's that gobbled up a lot of 10 to 20 unit apartment buildings in alphabet city on foreclosure at around $400K a building.
We have yet to see how badly the nyc commercial market will get hit in the months ahead. It has to take a further toll on nyc residential.

30yrs, truthskr: If a Nassau or Suffolk County SFR is sold at auction, or by the bank prior to auction, is there much of a risk of an entrenched tenant, squatter, or former owner staying on? What sort of time frame exists in that case?

Alanhart

I believe Nassau and Suffolk are different. Nassau is less tenant friendly than NYC, but more tenant friendly than Suffolk. I've heard stories of Suffolk tenants finding their furnishings on the front lawn (a la wild west florida marshalls) legally.
In both these counties, you can probably get a tenant out within 6 months at the worst in most cases.
But I'd wait to hear from a long island attorney on these boards instead of me.

Personal bankruptcy can be quite a monkey wrench however.You could spend 6 months in landlord tenant court, then have the tenant go personally bankrupt and hold you up another year! But of course a bum tenant can't do that habitually.