One Brooklyn RIP

I've been reading that the park adjacent to it is actually coming along... I haven't driven past it in a while, what's it look like?

It better be an R8 V10.

Free car? free parking? so far so good...now throw in a 50% cut in the developers financial aspirations and a quick rebound in the jobs market and a fast return to easy credit and whalla!
Rescued from the jaws of death...that's not so hard.

if they just priced it right it would start to move. For the units with BQE views better throw in some crazy air filter system. forget about the a4

a 30,000 car does not entice me to spend $1m over what the apt is worth

To see how the park is doing, check out http://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives/tag/brooklyn-bridge-park. Seems to be coming along. They are making a lot of progress this year.

Also, be sure to visit their sponsor on the left side. ;-)

"It better be an R8 V10"

And add $250 a month for insurance and how much for parking?

They offer a free parking space with the car. I'm not sure if that is a rental space or deeded space (which they are attempting to sell for 150k)

150K for a parking spot???? they'll sell by 2040.

for now, all the morons that spent $1M on BQE view or $3M on Manhattan view can live with Section 8. no renter will be willing to live so far away from everything and pay a premium for it in rent.

Many of us called this disaster quite some time ago... check the older 1 BBP threads.

Always destined for major problems.

I would find it hard to believe they are offering a deeded spot. probably 1 year free parking. Anyone know a) what the spots are renting for, and b) what are they actually offering?

"no renter will be willing to live so far away from everything and pay a premium for it in rent."

Actually, they would ... and they HAVE ... for quite a few years ... in the surrounding buildings.

Spots are renting for $180/mo+tax which makes it even tougher to get the math to work for the deeded spots at $150k (+monthly cc/pilots) even for convenience of park and lock. Let's just imagine they're offering a pimped A4 and a deeded spot - you're talking $200k concession tops... or less than 10% on a unit that is $2mil+ and by the looks of things they've not dropped the ask on the 'promotional units' one cent. Hey, maybe Curtis is tempted to rescue them from jaws of death by some "free" Audi A4 action...

Frankly, the only thing scary about buying in this building at this point are these blogs... 1350 sq ft for 815k is almost less than 600$/ft... the park at the foot of one brooklyn will be done by Jan.,the building's abatements and exemptions put the maintenance at a reasonable place for what you are getting, and anyone here who thinks they are living free from the threat of construction happening next door to them in NYC is delusional... I used to pay 450$ a month for a parking spot in SOHO... 180$ sounds great to me... If you think this area is too industrial or warehousy try living in Williamsburg... crikey!

I do agree that the units on the BQE side are less attractive - I think they someday will have to offer them as offices or something, but those actually only total about 1/4 of the units... and that 150k is ridiculous for a parking spot... as for the air quality, folks, I have news for you, anyone living in Brooklyn heights is suckin' it down as much as the residents of this building... 8 out of 10 days the breeze is coming off the water in this area, blowing it inland... and pollution hovers.

THAT BEING SAID - there are some points of concern...

1) Originally in this whole plan, there were 2 ADDITIONAL BUILDINGS 20+ STORIES TALL GOING UP JUST SOUTH OF THE WATCHTOWER BUILDING ON FURMAN STREET. Now - they are not disclosing this to potential buyers, who are kind of on their own to find this out, but the support structure for funding the upkeep of this park is supposed to come from private sources (i.e. maintenance/real estate taxes). Why this is true for this park and not for ANY OTHER PARK IN NYC is a mystery... to claim that this Park only benefits the residents of Furman street is ludicrous. So is the free Audi... whether or not they will still build said buildings will probably hinge on the economy, so tha probably won't happen for a few years.

2) Levine could go into bankruptcy... not sure about that one.

Even considering these things, the building is beautiful inside, the park will be great, and I think I saw someone on a related discussion suggest that you are 8 WHOLE BLOCKS AWAY fro EVERYTHING. That's crap - you're at chip shop in 2 blocks, montague in 3,
court street (Trader Joes) in 4 blocks, etc. etc.

"I think they someday will have to offer them as offices or something, but those actually only total about 1/4 of the units"

I didn't major in geometry, but saying only 1/4 of the apartments in a non-square rectangular building face one way doesn't sound very logical...

Obviously you didn't major in geometery... Picture an H... that is what the building is... on either side of each long leg of he H are apartments. The BQE is a capital I to the left of the H... like this... IH... how much does that look like to you? (this is like a second grae question, really)... remember that ther are units on BOTH sides of the long hallways that run down the long legs of the H...???
Have any of the haters on this goofy blog ever even BEEN in the building? Why don't you go there (open houses on sundays) and see
for yourself? you could probably do that, NYC10022, in the amount of time that you sit around typing...

I live 2 blocks from One Brooklyn and have seen several 1-2 bedroom units in it. If you like Brooklyn Heights and the water, this place is very nice. The brokers have authority to slash prices on some, which are reasonable at approximately $630/sq ft. But they don't budge on the prices for others -- ones with good light, view, etc. The Audi incentive and their lack of negotiation has to point to price guarantees to the units already sold. But sales are entirely flat, while Long Island City condos sales are steady -- the lesson is, if they dropped prices more these units would go. I'd be first in line; instead, I'm looking in LIC. I heard about the developer being in financial trouble as well -- does anyone have solid information on that? What would happen to the empty units if the bank takes over? Rentals?

that's the big question... of course, no-one knows for sure, but my sources say Levine is godd for at least the next 6 months...? i think the way to play it safe in this building (until it is 50% sold, of course) is to ONLY seriously consider the units that are marked down... I think low 600s per sq foot... when you compare that to the surrounding area, it's a great deal, and even if the bank forecloses, you still have what you paid for... at the lower prices the building is probably not "white glove" anymore, but it still has the amenities...? there WILL definitely be SOME kind of park there... i don't know.. it's frustrating, because compared to everything else for sale right now, the marked down units are the best deal in the neighborhood.... if...if..if

Sorry, and I meant "Levine is "good", not Godd.

Developer secured a 2yr extension from lenders this yr. He is not a distressed seller, which is why he is staying firm on the units with a premium view. People on these blogs have no clue what they are talking about.

$625,000 chopped to 390,000 seems pretty severe to me. He may not be a distressed seller yet, but he's certainly feeling the pressure. Also, 2 years isn't that long of a time frame.

Still only about 25% sold/closed correct?

I'm sure they have some spectacular views but I recall someone saying that the windows are rather high off the floor. Yes? What was that 1928 building originally?

Who in their right mind would live in the middle of nowhere right next to the BQE???? Ugggghhh.

"I'm sure they have some spectacular views but I recall someone saying that the windows are rather high off the floor. Yes? What was that 1928 building originally?"

I believe it was a factory, which would explain why the windows are high off the floor.

My understanding is that the 2-year extension was from original due date of Mar 2008, which takes him to Mar 2010. Based on a cursory glance there are at least 2 harbor-facing units with 25+% price drops (334, 639) so I'm not sure 'no discount on premium views' totally stacks up either. I can understand why he'd want to sell the 'non-premium units' first, but not clear how his target audience for those would fund the purchase even at reduced prices given the closed sales (15%) vs underwriting threshold (at least 50%). Even if you like the building and are a cash buyer I see no benefit to rushing to buy given the # of units available and all the question marks...

BSexposer: "Who in their right mind would live in the middle of nowhere right next to the BQE???? Ugggghhh."

This guy has NO IDEA what he/she is talking about... again, this is 2 blocks from Atlantic Ave hotspots, 4 From montague and 4 from Trader Joes, 5 from Smith, etc... as far as who would live right next to the BQE - ask anyone in Brooklyn Heights/Carroll gardens/Cobble Hill... or the west side o the east side of manhattan for that matter... no-one living in this city is living pollution free, people...

Tricks, you are correct on the extension... however anything on 3 is going to have limited view even harbor facing because of the townhouses in front of it, so maybe it's just one unit... probably something less than perfect about 639 also... again, I urge anyone commenting on this building to see it first... there is a lot right about it, and once the park is in, it will be amazing... that being said, stick in the 600-700 sq/ft price range and you'll do fine...

I've seen the building and like the harbor-facing units. Yes it's not SO far to amenities and one hopes they'll get some traction with the commercial space in the building once the park opens but for right now anytime you need to run out for some milk or a coffee you've got a not so nice walk under BQE and then 5 minutes minimum to get to a deli or whatever. I guess there's the shuttle too although I think getting that thing was a kiss of death. I just gotta disagree with you on a 'playing it safe' strategy:
- The building has almost 450 units and is not much more than 15% sold
- That's a lotta units to move and a lotta common charges/taxes to carry
- So he's renting some - I guess that helps cover his monthlies but as a potential buyer it's hardly a positive
- So he's dropped the prices of some 'non-premium' units - unfortunately he waited until financing for a building with low level of sales all but evaporated
- So he's now left trying to sell the 'non-premium' units to cash buyers - hopefully he can find lots more DrewSherms since the cap rates don't come close to making sense at $600sq/ft
- Now let's say he gets to Mar 2010 and he hasn't found enuf DrewSherms - Deutsche Bank who have the first lien on unsold units may start playing hardball... If that happens, and looking at the #'s today it is far from a remote possibility, all bets are off... Certainly I don't think $600 sq/ft is a floor in that scenario even for the premium units

We moved here from UES specifically for this building. We LOVE it. We love the building, the neighborhood and our apartment. Some of our windows are floor to ceiling so clearly not too high off the ground. Both my kids who are under 6 have no problems walking to the deli, playground, supermarkets, restaurants etc., so not sure what the other uninformed babies on this board are talking about. When the park is done, which it will be soon, this will be one of the best places in the world to live. In my opinion it already is.

thats awesome! did you get an audi? How bad is the construction on the park? I might try renting here before buying. I do think they are going to have a hard time filling such a large building up in such bad times and that is why i am hesitant.

They need another round of serious price reductions if they want to sell the 300+ remaining units

"We moved here from UES specifically for this building. We LOVE it. We love the building, the neighborhood and our apartment"
Great for you. Hopefully, you got a major discount off the original asking prices.

That being said, what about the neighborhood do you love? There really isn't anything within a couple blocks... are you talking about walking over to columbia heights? or going under the bqe?

> so not sure what the other uninformed babies on this board are talking about

You might want to watch the insults. I know this spot very well.

I have a contract out for the purchase of a waterview apartment here (with a 35% reduction off original asking). I am hesitant to sign, like others, because of the percentage sold (or lack thereof). I want to move SOON-ASAP, but do not NEED to move as I can lease an apartment for a year. I am concerned that I will be upside down on my apartment in a matter of months (if I decide to take the move now)and then prices or incentives are reduced further. I read the 2 year extension for RAL began in March of 2009. I do not want to waste money renting for another year to find further reductions in the near future. I would like to re-negotiate closing costs (at the cost of One Brooklyn) I believe this is fair. When I took the contract out a month ago (I know you have 2 weeks to sign but my lawyer had "issues" with signing the contract as it was-will further discuss if asked to) One Hanson is offering incentives towards partial closing costs. Any suggestions?

Recently went to look at One Hanson. Was not impressed. Price points of One Hanson and One Brooklyn PPSF & maintenance and taxes were roughly the same, give or take (One Hanson reduced prices up to 20% on remaining apartments). One Hanson is over 70% sold. Started sales before the market crashed. Thoughts?

I'd be interested to know what issues your attorney had. Love the building but I am hesitant to buy with so many unsold units and a loan extension that will end reasonably soon. Even with the recently reduced prices, units are not selling.

Queen I think this building has a far superior location then One Hanson. If the prices are the same the choice seems obvious to me.

>If the prices are the same the choice seems obvious to me.

Neither!

I love the ceiling height and the large windows in this building. The location is fine by me, even the longer than usual trek to the nearest subway station. I'm looking to move from my current space and was wondering if any of the current people living here with upstairs neighbors can tell me if their floor/ceilings are decently soundproofed? I'm really interested in if people can wear hard heeled shoes (men & women) without driving the downstairs neighbors bonkers. Or, even better yet, what exactly and how exactly is the floor treated and ceilings treated. Thx.

One additional question. Since this building is right on the water line, I imagine it does not have a basement level or a cellar level due to the water line. Nevertheless, since it is right on the water, and there is very little room to play with as far as excess water from the river and from normal rainfall and heavy rainfall - how much of an issue is flooding in this building? Maybe the owners don't know this yet because the condo board isn't formed right now, but this will be a major issue in the future. Double so with the water levels rising and what appears to be more hurricane force weather hitting the City.

The bldg was a printing/distribution facility so the floors are very thick and very solid. You aren't going to hear anything top to bottom here. Side to side noise would be the issue here. Also, I have heard from friends who bought in the bldg that, as it is in a FEMA flood zone, the lender requires you to get add'l flood insurance.

Samadams, I agree with you. One Brooklyn wins my vote in all accounts except the fact that One Hanson is not in financial strain. Also, now that the nets are moving to Brooklyn which was secured by the fact that Russion Billionaire Mikhail Prokhorov bought 80% of the Nets with the remaining 20% to
Jay-z, and the huge investment in Atlantic Yards, as long as the proposed funding of cleaning up Flatbush and giving it tree lined streets. I think in years to come we will see changes all around that area. Which will benefit One Brooklyn as well, along with the park.

Villager-I am in the same position as you. Love the building but the units unsold makes me tatter with the idea that this is an unsafe investment. Back onto the contract: It took 2 weeks for my attorney to recieve the contract (we were told our contract was sent out to the wrong person-talk about being unorganized). That is besides the point. My lawyer had told me he would not even feel comftorable signing his part of the contract. I did not speak directly to my lawyer about the changes we made, my fiance did but I can give you a rough idea of the issues we had-which we had to resolve:

1) If you do not close within 28 days (lets be real here!) then you have to forefit your downpayment to one Brooklyn and your contract ceases to exist.
-We were able to change this

2) If you are unable to get a mortgage for the amount owed on the apartment you have to pay the rest in cash. If you are unable to do that then again, you loose your downpayment.
-We were also able to change this

3) Now I need clarification on this from my lawyer, but this is what I am under the assumption of:

There is a 99 year land lease which is not terrible but not good. The rent is in the tune of $1,250,000 a year which goes up 3% a year. To give you an idea the first year it goes up about $40,000 and 3% every year thereafter. It is going to exponentially grow. If the building is not sold out the existing OWNERS have to concur the costs. ALSO keep 2 things in mind. 1) If the building forcloses the bank who buys unsold units (at a deeply discounted price) does not have to pay up on the costs of the land lease this rests solely on the existing owners. Now an issue that I brought up to my lawyer is 2)If they cant sell will they rent out the existing unsold units? That would not only hurt the value of our apartments but will the renters take part in the increases in the land lease?

-If someone has knowledge on the land lease that would be greatly appreciated. I apologize ahead of time if I am wrong on any information regarding the land lease of One Brooklyn. This is all second hand information that I receieved from my fiance. To clarify, I am 100% positive One Brooklyn does have a land lease, the amount of the land lease, and the percentage it goes up every year; however I am not 100% on the terms of the land lease (if the apartment owners have it tacked onto their maintenance, or who pays it for that matter).

Also Villager, I do not believe the land lease is to cease this upcoming March '10, like a memeber on this board has stated. If you go to http://www.ralcompanies.com/#/NEWS%2BPRESS/ you will see the extension BEGAN in March of '09 which mean it ends in March '11.

Also, it would not make sense that the land lease extension would have been given in March of '08. That means roughly a year after sales began RAL was given a two year loan extension. Not to mention the fact that they would have had to apply for the loan extension months before recieving it.

villager - "The bldg was a printing/distribution facility so the floors are very thick and very solid".

I realize that but thick concrete floors are not enough to address impact noise. Airborne noise is one thing, but impact noise is a totally different animal and much harder and expensive to combat. So, if that is the general consensus on floors and ceilings then I'm just going to mark it off as like any other post-war, modern condo - the condo board will eventual require 70-80% of the hardwood floors be covered in rugs. It happened to my building and numerous others I have looked at. Shame.

As far as the flooding issue, it's not so much a concern for the actual individual unit owners and their personal home insurance policy that I'm concerned about, unless, you have a unit on the main level; it's a concern for flooding of the common areas and the building maintenance funds that have to cover it. Meaning a need for higher fees in the future. The monthly maintenance costs are usually low-balled by the sponsor anyway.

The developer had better think about a better revenue-producing plan then making off with people's deposit money. I tried to negotiate there over a year ago. They would not budge one cent on price, closing costs, anything. I said, "well that's too bad, I guess i'll have to buy on re-sale". The sales director laughed and condescendingly said "Ha. If you can't afford to buy now, you will never be able to buy a re-sale here". I should thank him. It saved me from overpaying in a building I love which is now under unfortunate serious financial stress.

QueenB - Thanks for the land lease info. That puts a lot of the other concerns as a minor minus compared to this issue.

i meant loan extension, not land lease

Proper-good point re:impact noise. As the building is so sparsely populated, I'm not sure the verdict is in on this yet.

I apologize the loan extension began in May of '09 not March....need to get my M months straight.

ProperService: I am going to speak to my lawyer ASAP to clarify the land lease. I will post with details.

the maint. is very high for such a large building. how many people work in this building to have it so high?

Thanks for clarifying the loan extension dates. May 2010 did seem to be too soon.

> Queen I think this building has a far superior location then One Hanson

I disagree with that. 1 Hanson is in a very up and coming neighborhood, and next to a transportation hub.

1bbp isn't in a neighborhood at all. its a fairly isolated spot.

LOL @ nyc10022, statement is so obvious that Ray Charles made it 10 mins ago as well.

"1bbp isn't in a neighborhood at all. its a fairly isolated spot."

nyc1002: For my needs this has a better location. I have a car and rarely use the subway. The quick access to the BQE in both directions works in my favor along with the less expensive parking garage for $180/mth as opposed to $250/mth. One Brooklyn does offer a shuttle every hour (or 1/2 hour) to Trader Joes and a subway stop as well. I believe it ends at 7 pm on weekdays and earlier on weekends.

Also, I wanted a waterfront building and the park is a major plus.

For those who depend on the subway and do not want to walk to one, or rely on a shuttle to get you there, One Hanson is a better bet. The subway is right out your door. Agreed. Although, One Brooklyn will have the Water taxi (for commuters).

I am not even going to argue with people who think Fort Greene is a better location then Brooklyn Heights on the water. Yu know whay I am saying?

samadams,

I don't know what you're saying.

Spoke to my lawyer and my broker:

I was right about the land lease it is a $1,250,000 lease that goes up 3% every year. I do not know if they partition it out by SF or if the evenly distribute. After doing the math the increases for next year would be $40,000. I believe there are 70 units sold. I did the math for 85 units. Given they sell 15 units by the end of the quarter. It would be 500 per year per unit for the first year. I don't know if they send you a letter requesting money, or tack it onto your mainentance. If it was tacked onto maintenance it would be around an extra $45 per month (if evenly distributed). This is not that much of an issue now but it will be in the future if they are unable to sell the apartments and turn rental (bc renters do not cover the costs).

So in reality if the units do not sell out, or partially sell out, and the J51 runs out in 15 years we are looking at a lot of added expenses.

In Short: Any unit sold in this building has to cover a % of the land lease. If One Brooklyn is able, over time, to sell lets say 300-350 of these units and use the rest as rentals we are OK. And the land lease is only going to be a couple bucks a month (if added to Maintenance) for the upcoming years. SO it is in the best interest of the potential buyers to not have rentals not only for resale values but for this land lease issue as well.

BTW One Brooklyn contacted my lawyer asking me to sign ASAP bc they have a interested back up buyer. PRESSURE. What to do?!?!?!

Thanks for the info Queen. So, basically, will common charges increase min 3% year to year to cover the lease and PILOT increases?
That may partly explain why they recently increased common charges on most of the unsold units.
It's a tough call. You love the bldg and the apt and hope it will turn around for the bldg, but there is significant financial risk attached.
As for a back up offer...doubt it. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Villager: I do not know whether they account the lease expenses in the maintenenance or if they send you a letter requesting money. I assume it is in the maintenance. But yes, I believe that is why maintenance has increased.

Also, you think they are lying about a back up offer. I have my suspicions!

I found out from my broker some secret news =) Not to be shared-to be kept only on this post hehe. The Developers Group is taking over this project. It will be announced by next week. Soon enough Stribling will no longer be the listing agent. Good or Bad?

The Developers Group was the original team there with Stribling. The Bldg Developer got rid of them blaming poor sales (without acknowledging that poor sales were due to the sky high prices, not the selling ability of Dev Group). This should be interesting

QueenB - "...One Brooklyn contacted my lawyer asking me to sign ASAP bc they have a interested back up buyer..."

I say BS on that. Even if it is true, let them take it and wait for further price chops or ask for further price chops. I would tell them if they ever pulled such a cheap sales tactic again, not only am I not signing the contract on this deadline but when and if I ask for the contract again, I would want an 3-5% price cut.

That is if you're not in love with your unit.

QueenB,

1) If the building forcloses the bank who buys unsold units (at a deeply discounted price) does not have to pay up on the costs of the land lease this rests solely on the existing owners. Now an issue that I brought up to my lawyer is 2)If they cant sell will they rent out the existing unsold units? That would not only hurt the value of our apartments but will the renters take part in the increases in the land lease?

Are you sure about this? I'm most definitely not a lawyer, but when a bank forecloses on a property, they are the new owners, and thus would be responsible for the common charges/land lease/property taxes, and other costs of ownership going forward, whether or not they rent the units out. Again, I stand to be corrected, but it just doesn't sound logical that they could get the benefits of ownership (i.e. rental income), but not bear the costs.

Printer: I was told that the investor who buys these units as a package would be the ones bearing the costs. That the banks are basically just holding out a loan waiting for investors. Whether the bank pays the land lease or not I am not quite sure, but it would be a bundle sale. Not sure if the bank technically "owns" the units. Don't quote me on this because like you I am not well versed in that area.

ProperService: I was very annoyed with the listing agent. I felt that my contracts were botched up to begin with. They came late, and the terms were unacceptable. I should not be rushed, sales are not moving and they should be walking on eggshells with a potential purchaser. I think Stribling just wants to take a piece of commission from my apartment before it's too late. I also tried to re-negotiate with Stribling (closing costs) today in hopes that they would be desperate to give and get a little before they are gone. Again, to no avail. Thinking I should just wait until Devleopers Group comes back into play.

Villager: You are right. The Developers Group was originally representing One Brooklyn. I was told that it was more cost efficent for them to use the Developers Group over Stribling.

We're contemplating purchasing one of the duplex units on the mezzanine/second floor. Any thoughts on these? The unit we like has a fantastic water view, but I'm concerned about privacy at this level given the upcoming park.

1. Loan extension - don't take some RAL press release as gospel, check the offering plan or ask your lawyer to. My understanding is that the loan was originally due Mar 2008, well after sales started but prior to construction completion due to delays, so was initially extended 1 year to Mar 2009, then again to Mar 2010
2. Land lease - this is included in the common charges and is one of the reasons they are a bit higher than one might expect for a large building
3. Condominium risks in a distress scenario - in the event unit holders including sponsor or bank default on common charges the condo has second lien which means it can only claw back any funds left after first lien is discharged, which in a negative equity scenario is nada, thus leaving the remaining unit owners holding the bag
4. Habor front duplexes - I would be more concerned that the trees they show in the renderings end up blocking the view or having a smelly, vermin infested or rowdy eating establishment directly underneath than privacy per se
5. Sales office - they're not empowered to make any decisions on closing costs or other negotiating points and their job is to play games to create a false sense of urgency; witness all the listings that popped onto SE as being in contract today at bubble prices - I wonder how many of them represent the non-performing contracts from early in the sales cycle... (They apparently had 130+ in contract yet less than 80 closed so far despite last TCO being issued at the end of 2008)

"nyc1002: For my needs this has a better location. I have a car and rarely use the subway."

Well, that explains it. Of course, long island is probably better than 1 hanson in that case, too...

"I am not even going to argue with people who think Fort Greene is a better location then Brooklyn Heights on the water. Yu know whay I am saying?"

I'm not going to argue with someone who thinks this is really Brooklyn Heights.

Know what I'm saying?

right on nyc10022 enjoy the "real" brooklyn heights with your view of rite aid and the diner on montague, while we enjoy daily sunsets. Judging from this string something tells me there wont be 300 units left for very long...

"I'm not going to argue with someone who thinks this is really Brooklyn Heights."

Excuse me?

This building is as Brooklyn Heights as Brooklyn Heights gets!

Of course this is Bklyn Heights. If you want to live in a conversion in Bklyn Heights your options are limited. Its 1BBP or 166 Montague. The quality of the design and materials at 1BBP is far superior to 166 Montague. As is the location, in my opinion.

"Of course, long island is probably better than 1 hanson in that case, too..."

Except Long Island is, you know, the suburbs, and Brooklyn is (part of) a city.

"I'm not going to argue with someone who thinks this is really Brooklyn Heights."

Is Grace Ct Brooklyn Heights? Columbia Pl? Sorry, but even though you have the BQE right there, this is still Brooklyn Heights. That's really unquestionable - I'm guessing you think it's part of this relatively newfangled creation, the "Columbia Street Waterfront," but Columbia St doesn't go above Atlantic.

"Judging from this string something tells me there wont be 300 units left for very long..."

I highly doubt it - something needs to change for there to be significant movement in sales there. And I like the building.

nyc10022
"I'm not going to argue with someone who thinks this is really Brooklyn Heights.

Know what I'm saying?"

nyc with a stupid statement like that i wonder if you are even from nyc. do you even know how to look at a map before you say something that stupid?

How does one even price a fringe market at this juncture? What is the margin of safety necessary to buy in Dumbo, LICC, or Williamsburg at this point, especially given the financial straights of the condos?

Rhino, it's a good question, but really far too general to be truly helpful in application, especially in LIC (LICC is the poster, not the neighborhood) and Williamsburg, which are quite large areas, but also because there's a wide variety of product. Some people seem to be going by ppsf, which is a rough measure, but in my experience, potentially helpful in negotiations. You also have to be cognizant of the inventory issues to understand where pricing may go - and there's unfortunately a lot of bad information out there on that front. The same factors that typically contribute to value are especially important in these non-prime Manhattan areas (location, views, layouts, usable space, proximity to transportation/desirable services), but minimizing risk here also depends on how much of the building's really sold as well as the building's size. Right now, there's a lot more risk in a largely empty hi-rise than there is in a mostly sold-out 25-50 unit condo.

How can a building at sea level be in something called "heights"?

How come we still call it "New" York even though it's been around for almost 350 years? Not unlike a cigar, sometimes a name is just a name.

Tricks 73. I thank you for all your information.

Nyc10022: I am actually coming from Long Island. Jericho. AND I HATE IT! The move to Brooklyn is because I want to live in an Urban setting for a couple of years. I love the city-plays, restaurants,shops, even just walking around and find myself there almost every weekend. The point to moving to Brooklyn is so I can enjoy the use of a Subway as well as drive (maybe back home to visit). I have no desire to stay in Long Island and have been toying to get out for quite some time. I have contimplated Manhattan and Brooklyn. I chose Brooklyn because it is easier to get around with a car for me; amongst various other reasons. I find people judge too quickly on this site. People come for INFORMATION. It is a shame that we are taunted with arbitrary answers based on assumptions.

And for all of those who say this is not Brooklyn Heights then WHAT IS IT?! I have yet to read one post that claims this is "not Brooklyn Heights" but reveals the neighborhood 1BBP really is in. Of course this is Brooklyn Heights. It might not be the core of Brooklyn Heights but if you can't pinpoint another neighborhood then I am sorry but do not argue with us. We accept the fact that we need to walk a bit to the subway, or under the BQE to get to shops, parks, restaurants, civilization! but the BQE is what divides 1BBP from the neighborhood not the great wall of china!

I am sorry to have my defense up but I came here for answers and I can accept opinions but not rude ones. I want to talk to people who are looking to purchase and those with information that can help me out because I have a contract I want to sign. I appreciate people like TRICKS 73 who gave me vital information because people like myself, DUMBOMOM,VILLAGER, PROPERSERVICE are looking for answers because we are potential purchasers and if we are all interested I think it is in our benefit to help eachother out and I came to this board to do so. I am giving information that others did not know (unless they took out a offering plan) so people who want to purchase can weigh their options.

I thought this was Dumbo. I don't think people need to tell you what it is, to tell you it isn't in Brooklyn Heights proper, in location, look or feel. Now you're just pouting.

I take it back. That can be called Brooklyn Heights. Its close to Cobble Hill but I think people accept Atlantic as the dividing line. It may be a little industrial over there, is it not?

"If you want to live in a conversion in Bklyn Heights your options are limited. Its 1BBP or 166 Montague"

What about 110 Livingston? That is a lovely conversion in Brooklyn Heights - original McKim, Mead, and White.

Rhino86 I would like to see feedback on your question. I am trying to weigh my costs and risks and I think that is a brilliant question.

110 Livingston is in Downtown Brooklyn. It is on the edge of Brklyn Hghts and Dt Brklyn.

Brklyn Hghts ends on Court St and Atlantic Ave.

Spell it out... Downtown Brooklyn? I am not an expert....I don't even know what Downtown Brooklyn means.

"Rhino, it's a good question, but really far too general to be truly helpful in application, especially in LIC"

Well I know what my answer is. You dont touch that shit.

"I don't even know what Downtown Brooklyn means."

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How f**ckin lame!!!!!!!!!! Oh, wait, you need me to spell that out for you too?

Sorry, I don't mean to be too harsh on you, but really, it's similar to someone saying, "I don't even know what Upper East Side means."

Rhino86: It is not industrial. There is not much going on there just renovations for the park.

Also I am sorry if you took my post as "pouting" I did not want to come across like that. My point was that those who are looking at 1BBP like the location (not because the name of the neighborhood) 1BBP park was not marketing its location as 1BBP-Brooklyn Heights, they are priding themselves on the park that is being built which is what is drawing a large percentage of people to look at 1BBP. I think it is silly people are ranting on whether or not this is Brooklyn Heights. Which was my point. Everyone has their opinions on this ODD off the beat location which I accept. BUT the reason why I drew this point of contention out was because most people do not care what the NAME of the neighborhood is. Especially since it is a safe area in regards to crime etc.

Rhino, well, I'm pretty sure you're being facetious. You do touch it if the price is right; like you, I just don't see it for most places on the market right now.

QueenB, amen.

Just watched this: http://www.75wall.com/rent-to-own.cfm. Though about rent-to-own but wasn't sure how much of your rent actually went to the mortgage? This broadcast says that at 75 Wall St. 100% goes to your downpayment. Is it like that for all condos which do rent-to-own. Northside Piers was mentioned as one of the few at the end of the broadcast....looked there way back.

"most people do not care what the NAME of the neighborhood is. Especially since it is a safe area in regards to crime etc."

That's not true at all.

Why do you think the people who live in Gowanus allege that they live in Park Slope??

Or, for that matter, why the people at 110 Livingston Street allege they live in "Brooklyn Heights"??

NYCMatt I am not generalizing my comment. It was directed towards 1BBP specifically.

> This building is as Brooklyn Heights as Brooklyn Heights gets!

Thats one of the funniest things I've ever heard. But, if you buy that from the broker, I guess you'll buy anything.

For the record I am not embarrassed to be unfamiliar with the neighborhood "downtown Brooklyn". This seems defensible Brooklyn heights on proximity but not feel. You know like the trump buildings are technically upper west yet in the shadow of the west side drive.

Rent to own is fine unles you pay a break fee or lose a deposit. You don't buy call options in a falling market you write them!

Am I wrong about the topography here? Doesn't Brooklyn Heights extend to the Promenade, and then there's a massive dropoff down to where this property is? Does getting to prime BH, or real BH, or whatever you want to call it, involve going up stairs or taking a long way around? If so, it's more correctly "BH-adjacent", and frankly I can't think what its "real" neighborhood name is . . . because traditionally industrial areas weren't considered neighborhoods, but rather "districts" specific to their trades.

SO this development is basically Mole People who live under Brooklyn Heights promenade? Elevator access?

I didnt get the level from the map. Maybe they should have built the thing on stilts.

alanhart, the Promenade doesn't go down that far at all, but you can walk to it quite easily. 1BBP is at the end of Joralemon St, and there's no stairs, lifts, cliffs, or waterslides needed to get to it. You just walk down Joralemon (or Furman if you prefer the less scenic route) and there you are - it's the same way you'd get to other parts of the neighborhood. As mentioned above, this is not really an industrial area - some people may have a hangup because it's on the "other side" of the BQE, not unlike the parts of Cobble Hill that fit that description. There are people who have tried to attach other labels to it (Cobble Hill West, Columbia Street Waterfront), but to many people, it's just Cobble Hill.

> As mentioned above, this is not really an industrial area

It certainly was a few years ago, and now its a construction zone (which I'm not sure is better for now). Still some of the port containter stuff right there. It will certainly be better in 20 years, but before then lots of risks.

Even if they finish the park, they will be rebuilding the bqe. They're talking about breaking it into pieces and laying things down where the park is supposed to be (not very good planning).

"I can't think what its "real" neighborhood name is . . . because traditionally industrial areas weren't considered neighborhoods, but rather "districts" specific to their trades."

I think you hit it right alan. Not every street was always part of a neighborhood (in nyc or elsewhere).

This was definitely industrial, the building itself was where they did the jehovah booklet printing and storage. The stevedoring was next door.

"As mentioned above, this is not really an industrial area - some people may have a hangup because it's on the "other side" of the BQE, not unlike the parts of Cobble Hill that fit that description. There are people who have tried to attach other labels to it (Cobble Hill West, Columbia Street Waterfront), but to many people, it's just Cobble Hill."

Great example. Yes, many brokers sell it that way, but that often doesn't mean much more than their normal bs... and the prices drop considerably. Have close friends who bought at 1 tiffany, and even they won't make the claim. Just like the people next to the canal who claim they live in park slope. You can always get people to say it, but that generally doesn't mean a whole lot.

"Doesn't Brooklyn Heights extend to the Promenade, and then there's a massive dropoff down to where this property is?"

Yes, though Jorelemon sort of tunnnels down (it slants considerably) and tunnels under the bqe. I think there is one other like that. The other streets are a good 3 or 4 stories above where this building is, so its definitely "under" the promenade.

Lets make a kitschy name for it right now. Lower Heights? SoMo (South of Montegue)? Brooklyn Heights City?

Why buy in a fringe hood in the early going of a downturn. Oh wait, we dont have agreement that this is the early stages. Many seem to think one year in we are at the tail end.

> "If you want to live in a conversion in Bklyn Heights your options are limited. Its 1BBP or 166 Montague"

So? A neighborhood known for brownstones (and being almost totally filled with it and other townhouses, federal includes) not having enough factory conversions? Its like saying your choices in Manhattan are limited because you need a lawn.
;-)

That being said, its also wrong.

20 Henry is a factory conversion. There is another on Henry (next to St. Ann's and the historical society") thats been advertising for a year, a very nice place. Number would probably be 60, but I can't be sure. Eagle warehouse has claimed dumbo, but its on the BH side of Fulton

Plus, if you're willing to live in not really BH anyway... and you're willing to live on the other side of the bqe, just go 2 blocks down to 1 tiffany place and those buildings. Those are also old factory conversions, just a little older.

And, hell, if you're willing to cross highways to get to your neighborhood, cross fulton street and you get all of DUMBO.

Though, back to to the original point, you're aiming for a type of apartment thats the opposite type of the neighborhood you want.