One Brooklyn RIP

> "Of course, long island is probably better than 1 hanson in that case, too..."
> Except Long Island is, you know, the suburbs, and Brooklyn is (part of) a city.

So is Jamaica Estates.... but you're missing the point. There are by far cheaper places to be if you're going to drive around anyway. If you need to say "I'm in New York City", then make it douglaston.

In the end, the people of brooklyn (not the people who just moved here) when saying "the city" were not referring to Brooklyn. I know the tourists don't like that fact, but it is what it is. So, if you're buying to be "in the city", i think this is a flop, too.

"20 Henry is a factory conversion."

Didn't they stop work on that one completely?

None of these are 'the city'...but they are city living. I think that is what some people want. There is nothing wrong (at a price) with a big roomy renovated converted factory. I know people who love Dumbo. I'd be afraid to by into a condo with the market here in Manhattan on the condo side so distressed.

Ok QueenB now I drop some truth on you. If the neighborhood cant even be agreed upon here, you are probably better off in Dumbo. At least there are enough partially filled condos over there to create a distinct neighborhood over time. What happens when you go to sell your not really BH condo? Do you hope its been annexed by then? At least Dumbo is its own thing, not pining to be part of BH.

Better off in DUMBO?

Seriously?

Geographically, DUMBO is one of the most inconveniently-located neighborhoods in Brooklyn (aside from Williamsburg or Greenpoint), tucked away by itself on the waterfront. It's nearest neighbor, Brooklyn Heights, is a good 20 minute walk away, up steep hills and awkward (and dangerous) intersections that include on- and off-ramps from the BQE. You're within easy walking distance of only the F or the A trains.

Conversely, even at One Brooklyn, you're at most a ten minute walk (I know because I lived across the street from the building for ten years) to virtually EVERY subway line that comes into Brooklyn, and literally only about three blocks from the heart of Brooklyn Heights.

"None of these are 'the city'...but they are city living. I think that is what some people want. There is nothing wrong (at a price) with a big roomy renovated converted factory. I know people who love Dumbo. I'd be afraid to by into a condo with the market here in Manhattan on the condo side so distressed. "

If thats the standard, how about the lofts in New Rochelle? Or canco in Jersey City?

I think lofts are cool, I'm just saying for the value factor. The prices they were asking were insane for what you were actually getting.

"Ok QueenB now I drop some truth on you. If the neighborhood cant even be agreed upon here, you are probably better off in Dumbo. At least there are enough partially filled condos over there to create a distinct neighborhood over time. What happens when you go to sell your not really BH condo? Do you hope its been annexed by then? At least Dumbo is its own thing, not pining to be part of BH"

True... but I think the bigger thing is.... dumbo got in early... and the inventory sold. They beat the crash with most of the construction, all the big buildings are full (70 wash, jcondo)... unlike 1 BBP, which an article posted here I think said 30% filled.

Plus, you may want more, but DUMBO has its "center", whereas this building will always be "near" but not in the major neighborhood center.

Agreed. Call city living subway access. Call it whether you need to drive to eat. New ro def not.

> Didn't they stop work on that one completely?

Not that I'm aware of. There is construction "stuff" around, and I saw some definitely changes over a 2 week period last month (with the windows).

perhaps you're confusing it with announcements that they slowed sales to catch up with construction?
from a curbed search:
http://curbed.com/archives/2009/07/31/the_hole_on_henry.php

> Agreed. Call city living subway access. Call it whether you need to drive to eat. New ro def not.

I think thats part of my point (and I agree with your assessment). City living is paying to be "in close", near subways, bla bla. If you're driving anyway, why pay the extra "city living" dollars. Go a little down the bqe and get something cheaper with just as good access.

If you don't need the train, why pay for it?

"perhaps you're confusing it with announcements that they slowed sales to catch up with construction?
from a curbed search:
http://curbed.com/archives/2009/07/31/the_hole_on_henry.php"

They didn't slow sales - they stopped them completely. No listings are on the market.

"True... but I think the bigger thing is.... dumbo got in early... and the inventory sold. They beat the crash with most of the construction, all the big buildings are full (70 wash, jcondo)... unlike 1 BBP, which an article posted here I think said 30% filled."

Isnt this just a restatement of Dumbo being a real place (as a result of these facts) vs. this One Brooklyn Park not being so?

Yeah I guess when you step out from Manhattan it is a judgement call whether its city life or not. Condos in White Plains and New Rochelle are not. Hoboken, Park Slope and Boerum Hill are in my view. Of course, you can't pay too much (especially if you're of the mind that Manhattan is still overvalued). The biggest problem with suburban condos in my view is the logical buyer pool is small. Its all retirees and single people who "must own" at a time when they should probably just rent and save for a house. Again, for the zillionth time, in the 1990s it was a huge monthly cost savings to buy a condo in New Rochelle vs. rent, if you were 23 and expected to be single for at least 7 years... No more at these prices.

> They didn't slow sales - they stopped them completely. No listings are on the market.

And you're going to a tangent because???
Just admit you were wrong... its that simple.

"Isnt this just a restatement of Dumbo being a real place (as a result of these facts) vs. this One Brooklyn Park not being so?"

Rhino, agreed. Granted, it took DUMBO a *while* to get there. I remember for years wondering when the hype was going to catch up to the actual level of activity and life (outside of some very cool parties). It took a while, but it eventually came. That neighborhood gets CROWDED these days.

And, yes, 1bbp is not there, and might not be there for decades, if ever. The only way there can be critical mass is if its a major thoroughfare to the park, and who knows if it actually will be, and if the thing ever gets built.

But, no matter what, 1bbp won't have the transportation access or proximity to multiple other neighborhoods, and simply critical mass of a dumbo. So should be considerably less even when its finished.

"Yeah I guess when you step out from Manhattan it is a judgement call whether its city life or not. Condos in White Plains and New Rochelle are not. Hoboken, Park Slope and Boerum Hill are in my view."

To each his own. But they did a LOT with New Roc City. And I wouldn't live there, but I wouldn't live in Hoboken either. I think subway makes a big difference... but I'd put path at near subway, certainly better than commuter rail. So, say its subway (or subway-like) access and critical mass of life/culture/food.

"The biggest problem with suburban condos in my view is the logical buyer pool is small. Its all retirees and single people who "must own" at a time when they should probably just rent and save for a house."

Thats a bit of a stereotype... but do you really think all the hot neighborhoods in brooklyn are really that different?

DUMBO is filled with people halfway to the suburbs. Range Rover + 1 kid + one on the way.... and most don't stay close to downtown brooklyn when they move.

"Again, for the zillionth time, in the 1990s it was a huge monthly cost savings to buy a condo in New Rochelle vs. rent, if you were 23 and expected to be single for at least 7 years... No more at these prices. "

The story is the same for much of Brooklyn and the city.

The developer of 20 Henry is being sued by the equity partner and apparently doesn't have much skin in the game so who knows when construction/marketing will start again there. I would think 166 Montague (corner of Clinton & Montague, one block from Historical Society) has to be about done - I think the developer there has a lower basis (not to mention many fewer units) so probably has a bit more flexibility. As for the neighborhood delimitations... In terms of 1bbp and Brooklyn Heights I would draw a parallel between Battery Park City and Tribeca... The former is a bit cut off by the highway but has water views and now has beautiful parks, but it is still Tri-betcha... BPC was built out in phases and took a decade or two, and I would expect the same to happen here... Hopefully they'll get Pier 1 and 6 open in early 2010, then they'll get RFPs out for some of the other developments needed to support the park maintenance... Best case scenario in my mind is that one of the other four proposed buildings starts construction in 2011... In the meantime they'll start figuring out how they will stage the BQE cantilever reconstruction and I'd be very surprised if that doesn't involve using Furman and all or part of the uplands to Piers 2-5... Factor in that two of the proposed buildings are directly South of 1bbp and I think you're in for a long haul of living in a construction zone. So in a decade hopefully it all looks like BPC does now, but BPC prices haven't run away from Tribeca despite the pretty parks and views...

I don't think BPC is in Tribeca. It's on landfill next to Tribeca.

And Community Board 1 considers them to be different too:

"Community Board #1 (CB #1) represents the areas of Battery Park City, the Financial District, the South Street Seaport, the Civic Center and Tribeca.

Each of these distinct neighborhoods is experiencing dramatic growth and change, and CB #1 is hard at work to ensure that important projects move forward to benefit local residents and workers and improve our community. "

Yes as new areas get developed they get their own names, but the area around 1bbp hasn't reached that critical mass yet - maybe it ultimately will become the brooklyn bridge park district or some such - my main point was that this takes some time and benefits the adjacent developed neighborhoods that don't have to go thru that growing pain just as much or even more than the early adopters...

NYCMatt

"Seriously?

Geographically, DUMBO is one of the most inconveniently-located neighborhoods in Brooklyn (aside from Williamsburg or Greenpoint)"

Then which neighborhood is conveniently located???
Let me correct you. Geographically, Dumbo along with Williamsburg, Greenpoint and Brooklyn Heights are one of the most CONVENIENTLY located neighborhoods in Brooklyn

"And you're going to a tangent because???
Just admit you were wrong... its that simple."

It's not a tangent - you offered it as an alternative for someone wanting to live in a conversion in Brooklyn Heights. Except you can't live in it. How daft can you be? Not one of your better days, nyc10022...

"Isnt this just a restatement of Dumbo being a real place (as a result of these facts) vs. this One Brooklyn Park not being so?"

Sorry, how is this not a "real place"? Because there isn't a deli at your doorstep? I know this city is one known for convenience, but is a 5-10 minute walk to services really that burdensome that it makes a place imaginary?

Anyone know how many of the 4BRs in the 19 line have sold?

Also curious to know about the sound issue brought up earlier in this thread? Can you hear noise through the walls?

nyc10022,

You did a good job moderating this thread.

LOL @ "In the end, the people of brooklyn (not the people who just moved here) when saying "the city" were not referring to Brooklyn. I know the tourists don't like that fact, but it is what it is. So, if you're buying to be "in the city", i think this is a flop, too."

"Let me correct you. Geographically, Dumbo along with Williamsburg, Greenpoint and Brooklyn Heights are one of the most CONVENIENTLY located neighborhoods in Brooklyn"

Perhaps if you're a bird and can FLY to Midtown Manhattan. Otherwise, humans in Williamsburg are stuck with only the L train, and Greenpoint residents have it even worse (the G!).

I don't believe any units in the 19 line have sold - none that have been recorded on NYC DOF (Acris) anyway. PropertyShark seems to do a more reliable job than StreetEasy of parsing the recorded sales in Acris to unit #s so is a good place to verify. Guess the grand total # units to be recorded as closing in 2009 YTD? I'll tell ya - it's 8 including 1 to Ms Stribling whose firm has been handling sales. Given the elapsed time since construction was finished and TCO for final floors were issued my inference is that 50 or so of the 130 contracts they cited before the implosion were either vaporware or aren't performing.

So what do you think is going to happen to this building? Sales are sour and they have HUNDREDS of units to sell. I have, well HAD a contract out but frankly I am NOT signing. I do not want to be in the same position as the people at Forte who purchased-or took a contract out before the developers announced they are "handing over the keys" and some suspecting prices to drop significantly or the building to go rental. I went to ORO today and my broker had told me she had worked for One Brooklyn and left becaues they do not budge on price. Frankly, the price cuts were not enough. Yes, they enticed me and I was in awe with this building but I am over it. I was told the building was going to attract a lot of buyers with the price cuts. AND after going to an open house and seeing the absurd-I mean crazy amount of people showing up (like over 100 just in my group and there were 3 tours) I thought they hype was going to move sales. But seriously, the developer needs to get with it. The prices were seriously inflated before and still are after the price cuts. All I asked was for One Brooklyn to work on closing costs with me and they would not-and boy am I glad they didn't-it saved me from making a huge mistake. Thoughts on what is going to happen to this building?

Queen b how much were the price cuts if i may ask...off the original asking

The recent price cuts on SOME of the units 32% which is what got me interested to check them out. However, the price cuts were really on the units that were on 3-6 floors right above the BQE which are terrible, noisy and a ton of filth develops on your outside windows.

QueenB-I'm with you. Moving on from this building completely. They can change sales teams as much as they want, but if they won't lower prices, they won't move units. I'm not going to put good money into a building with such a questionable future

it looks like the only thing in this building that has moved are the studio rentals. They are all gone now and nothing else has moved. kind of tells you about todays market

"Geographically, DUMBO is one of the most inconveniently-located neighborhoods in Brooklyn (aside from Williamsburg or Greenpoint)"

First off, thats just dumb. DUMBO borders Brooklyn Heights, it borders Downtown brooklyn, if you're talking about walking. You can also walk to Manhattan city hall in 15-20 minutes, and most of wall street isn't much further. If its trains one desires, the F is one block from the main drag (Front Street), the AC 3-4, another 2 gets you 2/3, and if you're willing to walk the 8 blocks, you have Borough Hall and all its trains. There are few more connected neighborhoods in Brooklyn outside of living next to Borough Hall or Atlantic Yards.... and the prices match accordingly.

The even wackier part is pretending that 1BBP is better.

> Except you can't live in it. How daft can you be? Not one of your better days, nyc10022...

Yes, hall monitor just made a new rule.

We're apparently not allowed to talk about buildings you can't move into yet. Streeteasy, please have all uncompleted building listings removed from the database. We're not allowed to talk about them.

LMAO.

Man, talk about a guy going to incredible lengths to avoid admitting he was wrong. Wow, bjw, you certainly make great use of your time here.

"Sorry, how is this not a "real place"? Because there isn't a deli at your doorstep? I know this city is one known for convenience, but is a 5-10 minute walk to services really that burdensome that it makes a place imaginary?"

Then its a "real suburban" place.

"First off, thats just dumb. DUMBO borders Brooklyn Heights, it borders Downtown brooklyn, if you're talking about walking."

You've apparently never actually tried to walk from DUMBO to Brooklyn Heights or Downtown Brooklyn. It's at least a 20 minute walk, and it's not like walking from Greenwich Village to SoHo. You're walking through desolate areas, up steep hills, and crossing awkward intersections that include on and off-ramps to the BQE.

"We're apparently not allowed to talk about buildings you can't move into yet. Streeteasy, please have all uncompleted building listings removed from the database. We're not allowed to talk about them.
LMAO.
Man, talk about a guy going to incredible lengths to avoid admitting he was wrong. Wow, bjw, you certainly make great use of your time here."

Jesus, you're an idiot. Someone mentioned there weren't many conversion alternatives and you offered a building that can't be lived in. Let me stress that in case you missed it: you CANNOT legally live in the building. Talk about it all you want, but it's not a valid alternative for someone who, you know, actually wants to live in the building.

"You've apparently never actually tried to walk from DUMBO to Brooklyn Heights or Downtown Brooklyn. It's at least a 20 minute walk, and it's not like walking from Greenwich Village to SoHo."

You don't know what you're talking about. Walking from DUMBO to Henry street requires walking the path across Cadman Plaza (a couple hundred feet) plus 2-3 blocks to get there depending on where you start from. 70 washington is single digit minutes from the movie theater, for instance. Even closer if you just want to get to the edge of Brooklyn Heights.

If that takes you 20 minutes, you need a Rascal...
If you think its desolate, you need to fast forward a decade.

"crossing awkward intersections that include on and off-ramps to the BQE. "

BQE east off ramp lets off, amusingly, in Brooklyn Heights, not DUMBO. If you're crossing that or the BQE west ramp, you're lost and not walking the right direction. The exit itself lets you off at the BH / Dumbo border. And walking the heart of downtown brooklyn, you walk right down one street, no ramps at all to cross.

NYCMatt, "You've apparently never actually tried to walk from DUMBO to Brooklyn Heights or Downtown Brooklyn. It's at least a 20 minute walk..."

Never had a problem walking from one neighborhood to an adjacent neighborhood that you just described. In fact, I do it quite often. 20 minutes might be stretching the truth a bit. I suppose if you're old, fat, out of shape, crippled, or walking from the farthest part of the neighborhood to the farthest part of the other neighborhood while hitting every red light through a rain storm. Then yes, 20 minutes is sounds about right. But, what's the alternative? Drive a car? Walk to the car garage, wait for car, drive to next neighborhood, find a parking spot, pay the meter, do whatever in the neighborhood, and do the reverse of all that?

Walking isn't that big of a deal for most sane, able bodied people.

"Jesus, you're an idiot."

Wow, dude, you REALLY need to get on some medication. Or just get a life. Seriously.

You are waaaaaaaaaay taking yourself too seriously. And don't lie, I gave multiple alternatives.

And, to think you're the guy who complains the most....

Sheesh, really.

You need to get laid. Quickly.

"you CANNOT legally live in the building."

Streetasy, what's up with you! You still haven't removed all listings without a CO! What's wrong with you! Nobody wants to buy those!

oh my lord, dude, I think you're having a meltdown.

20 minutes? I dont think so

"Wow, dude, you REALLY need to get on some medication. Or just get a life. Seriously.
You are waaaaaaaaaay taking yourself too seriously. And don't lie, I gave multiple alternatives.
And, to think you're the guy who complains the most....
Sheesh, really.
You need to get laid. Quickly."

Wowie, all that for calling you an idiot (something you do frequently enough to others, of course, though this time deserved). I think you'd be better served by those meds (and then some). As for your multiple alternatives, you named "another on Henry... that's been advertising for a year" - very specific and helpful! What a joke.

"20 minutes might be stretching the truth a bit. I suppose if you're old, fat, out of shape, crippled, or walking from the farthest part of the neighborhood to the farthest part of the other neighborhood while hitting every red light through a rain storm. Then yes, 20 minutes is sounds about right."

"20 minutes? I dont think so"

Methinks nycmatt just really, really, really wants you to like 1BBP better.

"Wowie, all that for calling you an idiot (something you do frequently enough to others, of course, though this time deserved). I think you'd be better served by those meds (and then some)."

oh, poor sad bjw....

keep yappin...

QueenB - I think only time will tell. It sounds like the (selective) price drops and free A4s generated some buzz, the key question now is how that buzz translates into closed sales. They better hope it ramps up big time from the YTD momentum of less than one/month - it would take more than 30 years for the remaining 360 units to be absorbed at that pace...

I have followed the building closely and read all these threads for months. Yesterday I put in an offer on a 1205 square foot 1 bedroom with large home office, 2 full baths. I should close around $630,000, which means a full service building with gorgeous finishes, and all amenities for $500 psf. Developer is also waiving common charges for a year. My monthly nut will be under $2,500 a month for at least a year. I happen to like the location (the walk doesn't bother me, nor does the BQE) and love the amenities. Am I being sane? Assuming the park is completed and the market recovers, shouldn't it appreciate somewhat? I know we never know but I can't see losing money in my scenario-and if I am happy there for 5 years, maybe I am the perfect candidate?

I think the idea that $500 is so cheap is a jedi mind trick. You are unconsciously using Manhattan as your reference point. What is the $2500 nut going to with maintenance? I just re-read this and saw its not a true two bed. Your problem is who is the logical next buyer? You can get a nice 800 sqft one bed in Manhattan. I have even seen nice 2 bed 1 bath apartments near me in Carnegie Hill for $725k or so...1000 sqft. Yes they are coops not condos but still.

Rhino, therein lies the danger of comparing such different products - this building is a brand new conversion and isn't exactly apples-to-apples with a pre-war unit in Carnegie Hill. Now I love a lot of pre-war stuff, but people will pay more for new. It may seem silly, but that's what the market's decided. I don't think that $500 seeming cheap is a trick of any kind - what's more important may be the monthly nut. $2500 (if that includes maintenance and taxes) for a new 1BR + office in that area is probably cheaper than rent (anyone with intimate knowledge of rents here can confirm or deny?).

jocoru: Not to be a buzzkill, but I would not factor in amenities into any purchase decision right now, especially not in half-vacant new construction. I would also look into the likelihood of the park actually being done and being done on time. The financial report says that about 120M of the 350M they project to finish the park is unfunded at this time. So yes, based on your assumptions (market recovery and park completion), I agree it should appreciate somewhat by 2014-15. But those are big assumptions.

The risk of buying there vs. buying a 1000ft 2/1 coop in Carnegie Hill is off the charts. Its a terrible risk to buy that area in this market. If the S&P is 550 in February you are going to be crying.

Rhino, no doubt, but I was speaking more generally about the $500. The risk is more about the building than the area though.

"Am I being sane? Assuming the park is completed and the market recovers, shouldn't it appreciate somewhat?"

Those are some pretty darn big ifs.

Remember, they're going to be dismantling the BQE and apparently putting the pieces next to this building. Assuming they even get the park in decent shape, this is going to cover much of it for a few years.

And, while the market will eventually stop falling, it doesn't mean there isn't more to go. In real dollars, it might be a very long time before even break even.

"I think the idea that $500 is so cheap is a jedi mind trick. You are unconsciously using Manhattan as your reference point."

Agreed. Especially when manhattan has had stuff in the sixes for quite some time. Hell, you can get some pretty nice park slope in the high 2s and low 3s.

jocoru I am bearish but at 500 psf i dont think you will make out all that bad. What kind of views do you get though? I am most likely going t buy in this building but not until next summer

jocoru, I wish you luck & hope you'll be very happy there but I think there are a lot of unknowables there, especially re: the park & the amenities. It also seems to me that 5 years is an optimistic timeline - I'd say 15 years is more realistic.

Yes, 15 sounds about right. Of course, with a mortgage/inflation, "breaking even" over the time period becomes what might not be an insignificant loss.

15 seems a bit much, but I wouldn't count on fewer than 8-10 at this point, but it really depends on the final price you get, not so much the date.

"but it really depends on the final price you get, not so much the date."

Of course, if the last year has told us anything, the date helps define the final price you get. Buying now vs. a year ago certainly has a dramatic impact.

"the date helps define the final price you get"

That's a pretty uninformed statement. On average, sure, but nobody buys "on average" - most people tend to buy one property, and there's always examples of good deals, regardless of the year.

Thats so dumb a response it doesn't deserve another...

What a whiner for someone without an argument.

There are always good deals relative to the market...but that doesnt mean the market is priced attractively. That's price taker mentality.

Pretend its 2004 and tell me why $500/ft in fringe Brooklyn is such a value. How do we know what fringe Brooklyn is worth until the market begins to clear itself of Manhattan condos. The premise is just foolish. $600k for a one bed + office by the BQE is not some drag out price. If one of these building actually busts and ungodly low prices get pushed around...that might be something of a no brainer. Sorry, but a lot of people would pay $700k for a coop 2 bed 1 bath in prime UES seven days a week before they would consider over there. That neighborhood was not a consideration before that building was there... you have no idea how to comp it. Nothing near it existed in 2003 or 2004.

Rhino, a few things: I think there's a whole bunch of people who don't really consider this fringe. I don't think it's an ideal location, but I can certainly see why some might disagree. "That neighborhood" is Brooklyn Heights - that's what people are buying into. It's always been a "consideration" unless you count that lot of land as its own neighborhood. As for good deals, I didn't mean just relative to the current market. A smart and informed buyer knows when he/she is getting good value and doesn't say: "Oh, it's 2007, I should definitely not buy this even though it's actually a good deal." Of course those were few and far between, especially back then, but the point (and this should have been pretty obvious, nyc just enjoys being contentious) is that date is far less important than price, and date does not dictate that price.

> What a whiner for someone without an argument

and you're still whining, I see...

" A smart and informed buyer knows when he/she is getting good value and doesn't say: "Oh, it's 2007, I should definitely not buy this even though it's actually a good deal." "

Except that a smart and informed buyer would know the golden rule of investing... a bargain about to become a bigger bargain is no bargain at all.

But, keep rationalizing those bubble purchases. Its always good for a laugh.

"a bargain about to become a bigger bargain is no bargain at all."

A silly, empty statement that isn't really useful. When you're actually negotiating one-on-one with a seller, you'll realize this. I'm not in the business of rationalizing bubble prices; but a good price is a good price. Sorry that doesn't fit your perversely black and white view of the world.

> Sorry that doesn't fit your perversely black and white view of the world.

Yes, better to be in your world, where market crashes have no effect on individual apartments or sellers, and the peak of a bubble isn't where prices are highest, and we trade time-tested principles from the professors of finance for the rants of a guy who is just pissed he bought too early.

rotfl

thanks for the laugh. Let me know when you write your textbook, so we can throw out all that garbage from swensen, tobin, malkiel, etc.

i love it!

> I'm not in the business of rationalizing bubble prices; but a good price is a good price.

And "good" prices are generally in reference to THE MARKET.

seriously, wow, you spend SO much time trying to defend your mistakes.

It's actually a common misperception that you buy when you can and try to find a good deal relative to the current market. The idea wasn't as terrible before the securitization making took prices silly. Now everyone is focused on that recent history. That will work as well as buying the NASDAQ at 4000.

"And "good" prices are generally in reference to THE MARKET."

If you really believed that, you wouldn't say ridiculous things like "anyone who bought in 2008"...

"Yes, better to be in your world, where market crashes have no effect on individual apartments or sellers, and the peak of a bubble isn't where prices are highest, and we trade time-tested principles from the professors of finance for the rants of a guy who is just pissed he bought too early."

Of course the market affects pricing, but you consistently miss the point that no one buys "the market." There's nothing wrong with a macro view, but ultimately the buyer has to take the micro view as well. I don't think you get that. I am entertained that you project your emotions on to me though. Maybe being a troll helps you stifle the boredom? Either way, it's odd.

"Of course the market affects pricing, but you consistently miss the point that no one buys "the market.""

Ha, knew this was coming... bjw gets schooled, so he goes to his last resort... lying. I've said the opposite for quite some times.

Either way, you're still painfully wrong here. Saying that major market moves have no effect on individual pieces, WHOAH, thats stupid even for you.

I know you really REALLY want to rationalize how your bubble purchase wasn't a mistake, but you're only going to be able to pull that one off on guys like SteveF.

Nice try, though.

"I am entertained that you project your emotions on to me though. Maybe being a troll helps you stifle the boredom? Either way, it's odd"

Good to see you haven't stopped whining either.

Whatever helps you get over your mistakes...

Well, at least you did a 180 on your nonsense claim...

> "the date helps define the final price you get"

"That's a pretty uninformed statement."

and then later amends with...

> Of course the market affects pricing

But, I'm sure you won't admit that mistake, either.

Wait, so if you don't understand something it's called "lying"? Nice!

"Either way, you're still painfully wrong here. Saying that major market moves have no effect on individual pieces, WHOAH, thats stupid even for you."

You fail to understand basic English, or you're setting up such a ridiculous strawman, that either way, a new low, even for you.

"I know you really REALLY want to rationalize how your bubble purchase wasn't a mistake"

You keep talking about what I've done without knowing a thing. But that's not surprising considering you talk about everything under the sun without knowing much. Your arrogance and stupidity are unparalleled, really.

whine, whine, whine.

you are such a troll.

> or you're setting up such a ridiculous strawman

moron, learn what the words you say mean. its not a strawman when its what you SAID. rotfl.

wow, troll on, dude...

There have been some idiots on these boards, but no idiot has lied more than you.

Honestly whats a good price for a condo in an invented neighborhood "under" Brooklyn Heights and on top of the BQE. The idea of a 'good price' is about as useful as a tits on a bull. However you want to slice or justify it, $600k+ aint that good a price for something you can probably rent for $2500-3000.

"Honestly whats a good price for a condo in an invented neighborhood "under" Brooklyn Heights and on top of the BQE. The idea of a 'good price' is about as useful as a tits on a bull. However you want to slice or justify it, $600k+ aint that good a price for something you can probably rent for $2500-3000. "

Bingo. I think you hit it right on the head.

"its not a strawman when its what you SAID. rotfl."

Um, you're saying that I said this: "major market moves have no effect on individual pieces," when in fact I said this: "Of course the market affects pricing." Let's get down to it: you're a pretty stupid liar.

Rhino, it's not "on top" of the BQE. Gauging good value depends on a whole lot, but I think you know that. If jocuru could provide more detail on his particular unit, we could take a better stab. In the end, if he's paying less per month than it would be to rent, I don't see how you can say it's not worth his while, especially if he loves the place and plans on living there for a while.

"Um, you're saying that I said this: "major market moves have no effect on individual pieces," when in fact I said this: "Of course the market affects pricing." Let's get down to it: you're a pretty stupid liar."

OK, now I'm sure...you are a COMPLETE moron... and still a liar.

I posted your SPECIFIC contradiction just a few posts up. The post starts with "at least you did a 180 on your nonsense claim..." and I pointed out the contradictory terms.

Wow, you really are scum. You are not just a troll, you're a flat our lowlife liar.
Try being honest sometime.... really.

Get laid, get some medication. Maybe you just need to see a shrink.

But you've got to get over your mistakes already.

Really.

Yikes, you're not pretty when you're angry. You really just don't understand basic English; truly remarkable, even for a troll.

ROTFL.

Once again, everything you accuse others of, you're the king of. I'm still laughing on how you didn't understand what "peak" meant.

Troll on, liar.

I really appreciate all the chuckles you've given me.

Get a room already.

Really. You two have managed to now hijack two separate threads at the same time. Quite an accomplishment.

what can I say... bjw likes following me around and responding to my every post.

I can't blame the guy for being pissed at himself, but he needs to find another outlet.

"what can I say"

You could just shut up. Frankly, I'll do the same. No point in my responding to you anymore unless you're directing a question at me or blatantly lying about anything I've posted. I think that's fair.

That said, we have learned that a "good price" actually means nothing and that most of the market doesnt know how to judge it in absolute terms or cares to do so! Buy MORTIMER Buy! All that matters is if you have the money and can borrow more!

Rhino, that's a pretty ridiculous distortion. I've clearly framed value in the pretty standard rent vs buy context, and as we've seen, the two seldom move in perfect unison.

"You could just shut up. Frankly, I'll do the same."

and then he continues to whine...

I love it.

> Buy MORTIMER Buy!

lmao. good one, rhino.

bjw2103, thank you for asking. The unit is on the 5th floor- mostly overlooking the courtyard- not the BQE view but not the water, either. Mediocre light. It is 1205 sf, master bedroom with walk thru closet and bath with soaking tub and separate shower, then home office, which is 11 x 13, quite large but no window. 2nd full bath, washer and dryer. Gorgeous kitchen (sub zero, bosch...)- by the way, all the amenities are 100% complete and of great quality and I'll use them. Maintenance (waived for a year) would be $1000. I'll close just around 650k. As I said, i like Brooklyn Heights and love Joralemon, understanding that crossing the BQE isn't awesome. But coming from Manhattan where I last paid $685 for a 600 sf 1br/1ba walk up, I sort of can't believe that I can get all this for what will cost me $2100 a mont for the first year and then $3100 after that, plus tax benefits. Yes, I understand the risks of the park and developer going under. Yes, I understand that they started with crazy pricing (my unit had an ask of $885)

jocoru - I'm glad to hear about your deal. I love the building and its location, but have been underwhelmed by the price cuts. Not to mention Stribling's one-size-fits-all marketing of the units themselves, which makes the hundreds of offerings difficult to navigate. Yes, the amenities make for a pricey common charge, but if you make use of them it should be worth it (gyms in the Heights ain't cheap).
Congratulations on your new home!
Tina
(Brooklyn broker)

Are you sure the monthlies are only 1,000? CC + RET in this bldg are generally over $1/sf

on the convenience question.. i've lived in cobble hill, park slope and prospect heights, and now, williamsburg. williamsburg crushes all for convenience. how is the L inconvenient? if you are close, you connect to the 1st ave bus line and all subways in like 10 minutes. 20 minutes to anywhere you work. i work in soho and can get home in a taxi/car service in 12 minutes - did it today in fact, and happen to walk over the bridge frequently (about 50 minutes and more relaxing and beautiful than the gym). spouse works around grand central and makes it home in less than 20 minutes all the time. for brooklyn, no other hood is as close to midtown especially.

on this building, i think that long term, it's tremendous, but right now it's still overpriced. BH as the hood is an advantage in terms of schools and overall general opinion that BH is a top hood. access to smith street and atlantic avenue is a huge plus. i also think that the stores/restaurants in Cobble Hill West are pretty cool. if you have a car, then fairway and redhook and ikea is so close and offer a bunch more to do. redhook has some pretty interesting shops and restaurants, etc...

poster above mentioning BQE access as a plus is right on. i live a couple of minutes to the BQE in WB, and frankly, it's amazing. we can get anywhere and use our car every weekend pretty much to do something. i didn't even think about that prior to moving, but now consider it a major plus to living in WB. also, anyone with a car near the BQE, can get to a myriad of suburban like stores in Queens very fast. pretty much anything you'd want to buy is cheaper there and bigger and cleaner than similar in brooklyn or manhattan.

good luck to the buyers in this building.

jocoru did you put down like 40% on that purchase?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/467363-condo-360-furman-street-brooklyn-heights-brooklyn

In what universe is this apt worth 1.8m

Wisco: But I just find the L extremely unpleasant, and the transfer on the Manhattan side gross & dirty. I have tried to get over this to no avail. It may be longer, but I much prefer taking the 2,3 or F to Bk.

Or A,C,B,D and all the other trains that go there. L is my least favorite.

"on the convenience question.. i've lived in cobble hill, park slope and prospect heights, and now, williamsburg. williamsburg crushes all for convenience. how is the L inconvenient?"

Because unless your destination in Manhattan is within the 14th Street corridor, every freaking trip on the subway to and from your home will involve at least TWO trains and a transfer. The two-train-minimum thing gets REALLY old real fast. BTDT.

I agree. I think there is a huge difference between one train and two train trips.

wow, matt is finally right about something.

So it looks like the Stribling listings became invalid and new TDG listings came online as some above mooted - flip flop, flip flop. Gosh, and to think Libby went thru with buying her penthouse for over $6 mil - she and her firm must have taken a beating on this building...

Matt

I like the two trains and a transfer :o).