AZURE intelligence! == new construction on 91st & 1st

i just got an email from them, about a special event with a book signing by Kathie Lee Giffort (their spelling, not mine!). if KLG is the best they can do celebrity-wise, the place is in SERİOUS trouble. LOL.

LOL!!!! This is what they come up with? Kathie Lee "Giffort"? She is one of the most annoying women in America! Azure is a laughing stock. How sad that they couldn't even spell her name correctly, but it is emblematic of their efforts.

Don't forget to attend the big Children's book signing by Kathie lee "Giffort!" tomorrow afternoon! What losers. A woman who was accused of using child labor in her sweat shops is now being peddled to try to sell overpriced land lease cooperatives. What stunning marketing plan will they come up with next? Hey, I have an idea! LOWER PRICES ANOTHER 25% to start.

Wait. It gets better. Clearly they are skimping on their email proofreaders. I got an email this week telling me there is a wine and cheese reception on THURS 5/26. Last time I checked the 2010 calendar, 5/26 is a weds. Or maybe it was supposed to be 5/27? I then got a new email today saying that the reception is now WEDS 5/26. Someone finally caught the error. Perhaps they should can whatever lousy overpriced advertising consultants they're using and, I dunno, put the savings into PRICE REDUCTIONS on the apts....?

So...(Chuckle Chuckle)....How many contracts did Kathie Lee Giffort bring in? What a bunch of losers! LOL!

Just saw a press release from a councilperson touting that the Waste Transfer Station on East 91st Street (1 block away from Azure and right next to Asphalt Green and the big field where all the kids play) will not be opened and operational until 2014. The key point is that IT WILL OPEN making a resale of an apartment at Azure a nightmare, as if it didn't have enough issues! Yet another nail in the coffin. But hey, the developers are giving away a free I-Pad for a stupid contest. The best part? You don't have to buy to win!!!!!

Do you think it is worth it to show them a down 40% bid?

You can offer that, but I would still be very wary; especially now. They have not been able to sell other than in bulk. I am very concerned about appraisals, so if you were to buy make sure they include a clause that will honor a lower bank appriasal or give you an exit clause if the appraisal comes under. The bulk sale will negatively affect values. Though the building is now effective, none of the other problems have gone away. It is still a Land Lease Cooperative. They still have an incredibly high maintenance charge; especially on the higher floors that approach $3 per share unabated. That's insane. It is still a poor location with poor subway options though that will change in 2016 when the 2nd avenue subway opens. Those 19 bulk sale homes will be rented and I suspect many homes in this tower will eventually be rented. Only one bank is financing: HSBC and only because they are the construction lender. You have no options in lenders. There will be a Waste Transfer station opeing down the block in a few years making a resale that much more challenging. There are now not one, but two schools next door with around 700 kids between them and of course there is the real possiblity that the whole thing will be foresclosed on by HSBC and then put back on the market at drastically reduced prices wiping out the equity of the previous buyers. Who wants to deal with all of that? The on site director of sales used to comment on this site, but he quit after just 2 months. That says it all right there. It would be fascinating to have the newest director address all these points. Perhaps you should present your offer and ask him to address all of these issues as well. See what they say.

Maybe I will start at 45%! Thank you for all of your insights - will let you know!

So, we fell in love with the units here. We went back and forth and finally decided it would be worthwhile to make an offer, however given all of the insightful (and very helpful) comments above, we offered approx 35% off list. The counter came back at a 2% discount, and we walked. They are clearly not in touch with reality.

The sales rep says they are signing contracts, in fact we made the decision to offer when we were told the unit we were originally interested in had a contract out.

So, long story short, they sounded like they were willing to negotiate during our visits but we didn't find them that negotiable. The rep told me later that had we started with a more realistic offer the counter-offer would have probably been lower, something I don't understand. She had originally practically guaranteed us a 20 - 25% discount at our first visit in May. We figured if she sounded so sure, then our offer should be lower. She in fact made a point of telling us, that we should keep in mind that no matter what we offer they will always counter something higher.

I will admit I was pretty crushed by the whole thing (thank goodness my husband runs the finances since he is much less emotional than I am). I didn't think they would actually take our offer, but I did think they would make an effort to keep a potential buyer with a more enticing counter-offer.

We did try to explain our low-ball offer with all of the potential risk we perceive...particularly with respect to the bulk sale. But then the rep (the very one that originally told us about the bulk sale) denied it. They are now calling it "a group of individual investors who purchased together", or some such nonsense. But whatever.

Good LUck with your offer and keep us posted. Hey! Maybe we can get a "group of individual buyers" together and convince them on the 40% discount!

Thanks lizsss for the fascinating & informative post. A few months back when I had met Ali (the lead broker who quit) he told me he could practically guarantee us a deal around ~10-15% off current list prices, but that was before the 'group of investors' deal aka bulk sale. I still thought that was too much given all the drawbacks everyone has noted previously. The fact that they countered you at 2% is absolutely ridiculous. SO out of touch with reality. The Azure is becoming an amusing soap opera...to watch from the sidelines only.

Wow! Interesting posts above. A couple of months ago, the Director of Sales for Bracha (who has since quit) had the gall to say in a post above that once Azure declared effective the sponosrs would be much less negotiable. Incredible as it may seem, these developers are truly that stupid. Instead of trying to minimize their losses, they are running this project like they expect to still make money on this crapfest! But the problem is deeper than that. In addition to sponsors who don't want to reduce prices, we have to make the assumption that Bracha/Elliman told the sponsors that pricing wasn't the problem for the lack of sales; it was the marketing. So, it is difficult for them to now go the sponsors to say "Hey, we just said that to get the listing, but get what? You really are priced too high!"

Remember, they only declared effective by doing a bulk sale which means THEY SOLD A BUNCH OF UNITS AT GREATLY DISCOUNTED PRICES but virtually none outside of that. Hmmmmmm.

Just went and saw this place this morning -- i had read this thread before but was surprised by how nice the apts really were. We looked at 2brs and were told that they would be ready to start closing in 4 weeks and that 30% units were sold. I asked about the bulk sale which was as previously mentioned confirmed but that it was "1brs that were purchased".

I know, I was really impressed by the building as a whole and the individual units in particular. I thought they were well-done and I don't know, sophisticated yet understated.

Thanks for the update on Azure sales. Last time we stopped by, which was early June, we were told closings would start at the end of June or early July...looks like that won't happen. I wonder if that 30% number is true? I suppose it could be... which means sales must be picking up.

either that or closings are always '4 weeks away'...

Once again, the brokers are lying. The bulk sale was 19 units and, having been to the sales office way back when, I happen to know that there are only about 10 one beds in the whole building, so they lie when they say that the bulk sale only involved one bedrooms.

Yes, the apartments are beautifully done. No one disputes that. What is disputable is the pricing for these homes. They are simply too high and why do the closings keep getting pushed out? They declared effective at least a month ago so why haven't there been any closings? Are there issues with appraisals??????? Unless you're paying cash, there will be. If you decide to proceed make sure that you get a clause in the contract that makes the sponsors honor the appraisal if it comes in lower (and it will). They should have no problem doing so if they believe in their product.

So what's going on with this building? Still no closings after declaring effective in May. I heard from an associate that the on site made a claim about a month ago that a contract was out for 1 of the Penthouses, yet I now see that both penthouses are now listed as available. Very troubling as it shows that once the attorneys due their due diligence or the prospective buyers try to get financing or the actual appraisals come in showing the contract price is way to high, the deals falls apart. They are also still showing a one bedroom as available even though the on site claimed they were sold as part of the bulk sale. Makes one go Hmmmmmmm.

lsender, how do you know no closings? When I checked SE a few days ago, I noticed 13 apts are listed under "no longer available" all with the same date (7/16/10). I assumed that was the bulk sale but as I'm not a SE insider, its not clear if they sold or just taken off the market. Anybody go by recently to hear what the "sales" associates are saying these days?? But intriguing that they lost a PH contract. I think you're right that they're having trouble closing with individual buyers...

"no longer available" can mean two things. It can mean "sold and closed" or it can mean that they are just no longer on the "available list". Many new developments rotate their available inventory. I find it interesting that they just removed them and not categorize them as "sold and closed" if that is what happened. The reality is that they will be shouting it from the rooftops when a clsoing actually happens just like the Apthorp (another very troubled project) is now doing now that they finally had their first closing last week. The bulk purchasers are likely paying cash so they won't have the appraisal issues that individual buyers are probably grappling with right now. I find it astounding that nothing has closed yet. This is looking more and more like a forclosure is on the horizon.

How would we know when it goes in to forclosure? If it did I would def like to go to the auction and bid on one of the apts. I love the larger units, but they are still way off the market and I know most banks won't give financing until the building is about 30-40% sold( that is what Bank of america told me). Is there any way to know who owns the building mortgage, so maybe those of us that are interested in the building, but at much cheaper prices, could contact the lender and tell them we care if they go to auction

As I understand it the construction mortgage is held by HSBC which makes sense because HSBC is the ONLY bank that will finance in the building. They only reason they're involved is because NO OTHER bank would lend here. Think about that? NOBODY! All other banks are avoiding this bomb like the plague. Bank of America WILL NOT lend in this building at 30% or 40%! Remember, this is a land lease Cooperative where a bulk sale has now devalued all of the remaining inventory. I doubt, however, that it would go to auction. Most likely, HSBC would take the property back, dump Bracha, and relist it with another agent at prices that wipe out all of the original owner equity. This should result in much lower prices. How much I don't know, but these apartments are very well built and are beautiful. At the right price they will absolutely sell. But Elliman is nuts to think people will buy at the current prices with all of the building's major issues.

Thank you so much for your insight- I will just keep my eye on the prices then.

Does anyone else consider the Azure's textured brick facade, between all the windows, hideous? At first, I thought it was some sort of base material that they would eventually cover up.

This is one nasty-looking high-rise . . .

have they sold any unit at all? what is going on with this place?

1. I passed the Azure at 11:49 PM Saturday night
2. and checked for signs of occupancy because of all the interest in this board
3. there did not appear to be any lights on in any north facing apartment
4. there was one light on in an eastern facing apartment, and possibly a second up by the roof
5. a few east facing apartments has windows that were uniformly and identically dark gray, but not black
6. it is possible that darkness reflects window shafes delivered with each apartment
7. the southern front of the building did not look much better
8. I did not study it in detail but dont recall seeing any lit windows
9, I walk by Azure every evening and do not recall ever seeing anyone go in or out

It's a huge mystery! I stick to my feeling that this is going into foreclosure. They declared "effective" back in May, yet do not have a single closing yet? Why not? Here are my guesses: 1) The few original buyers are fighting to get out of their contracts. 2) The bulk sale of 19 units probably had a clause saying that they could close at a future date. 3) Anyone who was duped into buying after they declared effective is now suffering trying to get financing. No other bank but HSBC is providing it and since they have first hand knowledge of the purchase price for the bulk sale apartments it is resulting in low appraisals for all future sales. 4) The on site agents have clearly lied saying that the bulk sale was only for one bedrooms. They still show one beds and studios as available for sale which means the bulk of the sales were for 2 beds (and possibly larger). That is a nightmare for all future buyers. 5) The maintenance is clearly outrageous and turns a lot of people off. This building is toast. If you want to buy here, WAIT until the bank takes it back and prices are lowered.

Star:

If you are correct the prospect of possible foreclosure of the Common Elements will be a severe
deterrent to both new sales and closings of old sales.

I agree with Star. they currently list 12 homes as "under contract" and all were listed about the same time which means they were part of the bulk sale. further proof that the public at large is NOT BUYING into this albatross. Three months after declaring effective and completing the building they do not have a single closing yet. It is very disturbing. The saddest part is that most of the problems with this building won't go away over time. It will still be a land lease Coop with incredibly high maintenance next door to 2 schools, around the corner from the projects and down the block from a waster transfer station. Resales are going to be very, very tough.

So now there is an example of what happens when a land lease building goes into foreclosure and is reintroduced to the market. One Rector Park in Battery Park City (a land lease Condo as opposed to Azure which is a land lease Coop) went into foreclosure last year and has now come back onto the market at prices over 40% below the original asking. Azure has been on the market for 3 years now and most of its signed contracts are the result of a bulk sale. Per Streeteasy, They have yet to have a single closing though they declared effective 4 months ago! The building is just standing there. The on site now advertises daily open houses all day long. I guess no one is making appointments. Very sad because the apartments are actually nicely built and spacious. They are just way overpriced.

Hey, if your hunch is correct about the bulk sale, the purchaser will want certain privileges written into future amendments to the offering plan. If so, that could be holding up the closings, as some smart lawyer wants to see the amendment before closing. Then you'll have land lease Coop with a condo feature for some of the apartments.

A correction to my posting above. Price reductions were 30% from original asking (not 40%). However, Azure has more challenges. One Rector Park is in one of the best public school districts in the city and they are a Condominium. In addition, they are FHA approved and have 3 major banks financing including Wells Fargo and B of A. Azure is not FHA approved and has just one bank (HSBC) providing financing and the only reason they are financing is because they are also the construction lender. HSBC wouldn't be financing either unless it was forced to. That's is really scary to a buyer. NO BANK (other than the construction lender) is touching this.

I just spoke to the sales office and the only thing i can say is that they are CLUELESS! Most of my questions they could not answer, she does not know her inventory and she could not explain why that if you buy two apts to combine it is 400k more then if you buy them seperatly. When I pointed out to her that 400k to combine the apts seemed high she agreed- very strange. She also tried to lie about the bulk sale which I told her I was not buying her lie and then when I asked how the bulk sale would effect the appraisel on other apartments she was silent and said I really dont know how to answer that.
HSBC really needs to hire new agents! Oh and the kicker is that she said that people will be moving in next week, yet they don't have a single closing. Hmmmm

I'm not surprised. I was close to a deal with my customer last fall and the BHS agent was great. He knew the project and building very well, but he was hamstrung by the developers refusal to lower prices. The new Elliman brokers most likely got the job by telling the developers that pricing wasn't the problem. That's why they are in the position they are in. They can't defend this project at current pricing to the public but can't go back to the developers and ask them to lower them. The irony is that the bulk sale has been the death knell. Azure still advertises studio and 1 bed homes for sale so that means the bulk sale involved larger 2 bedrooms and possibly bigger. The ONLY bank financing is HSBC and since they are the construction lender they know full well what the sale prices for the bulk sale are and therefore what the true value of these homes are.

HSBC needs to just cut their losses and take the route of One Rector Park in Battery Park City (another failed land lease project). The bank foreclosed, brought the building back to market at drastically reduced prices and signed over 40 contracts in just 2 weeks or so.

It is possible that someone could be moving in next week. The building is complete and they declared effective over 4 months ago, yet they have not had a single closing to date. It is probably because no one can get financing because the appraisals are so low. The buyer "moving in" next week is most likely a sadly clueless all cash buyer.

HSBC won't even give a 15 year mtg on this place - only a 5 or 10 year arm!

if you qualified for a 15yr mtg, why would you ever take it?? make the 15yr pmt (assumed 4.5%) on an 10/1 loan (assumed 3.75%) you pay the loan off 6 months quicker, have an option for a lower payment and build equity quicker. your post reset payments at forward rates is less than the initial fixed pmt. credit is a great tool for people who can manage it.

Why would I take an arm when I can lock into a 15 year fixed at about 4.375. - an arm is fixed for one year and then floats. Rates may stay low for another year and then start to creep up. No thanks

Some of you may remember earlier in the thread that I met the previous head Elliman broker Ali Jafri and he told me he was buying an apt at the Azure. Check out today's NYT Real Estate section - he apparently bought at Atelier on the west side. Guess he couldn't deal with this stinker either. Picture of him too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/realestate/29cov.html?_r=1

a 10yr arm is fixed for 10 years...

So what's going on here? A friend of mine recently went to the sales office and said he was floored by how uninformed the on site sales staff were. He asked many of the great questions posited above and and they were dumbfounded in how to respond about how the bulk sale would effect appraisals. Didn't know if the sponsors would allow an escape clause if appraisals came in lower than the sale price. On and on........ Any other stories out there?

Yes, just noticed today that on the west side of the building, on what appears to be the 7th floor, windows were removed and replaced with a door opening to a terrace above the school. Strange, but doesn't this type of alteration require some sort of amendment to the offering plan?

So, we are now in the 5th month after Azure declared Effective (and were only able to do so through a bulk sale). The building was also completed about the same time. Yet, after apparently 3 years of sales they have yet to actually close on a single unit. They also advertise immediate occupancy. I'm very confused. Since so much time has gone by, perhaps those few original buyers were given a right of recision since no closings have occurred. That leaves just the bulk buyers who (in an ideal world) the developers would want to close later as the discounted prices will decimate all future appraisals. Seems like they are in quite the pickle.

For the past several nights, moonlighting workers have been using klieg lights to paint the interior of the 7th floor apartment with the newly installed door onto the terrace. The painting appears to be almost complete with furniture being installed tonight.

I can't quite see the 7th flr kleig lights, but our apt faces the west side of the Azure. For the last week or so, I can see a handful (*single* hand) of lights on the west side so I guess a few brave souls have moved in. Must be renters though...

are these 4 actual closings??

Documents for a 9/8/10 closing of #6D hit ACRIS on 9/23, so this is the first recorded closing. Buyer paid almost $1,100psf for a small apartment on a low floor. SE summary below. I just don't get it.

09/08/2010 #6D $794,642 -7.3% $857,000 Sold 1 bath 728 ft²

This is not that surprising. This is likely one of the few first buyers from when the project first went on sale. Wait until the bulk sale apartments start closing. Then, you will see the deep discounts. My guess is that they will purposely delay the closings on those as much as possible to prevent the market from seeing those discounts and its effect on future appraisals, but they are quickly running out of time.

Agreed. It has been a month since that studio closed and to date it is the only closed sale. What the heck is going on here? 3 years on the market, building complete for 6 months and and only one closed sale! Looks like just about everyone but the bulk buyers got out of their contracts.

Tonight, Friday, 10/08/2010 at 7:30 p.m., I counted at least 4 apartments on different floors with lights on! Thirty minutes later, the lights have all been turned off except for 1 apartment. Do you think they are having Open Houses at night now?! The remaining light is on what appears to be either the 27th or 28th floor on the southwest corner of the building and seems to have some furniture.

8:15 p.m., the lights are back on in 3 apartments on what appear to be the 17th, 23rd and 30th floors on the northwest side of the building. The lamps all look identical. Staging?

#11B sold for $999,999, probably dodging the mansion tax. At $835/SF, the rent/buy math seems pretty good, at least until the monthlies start to climb.
08/27/2008 Previously Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $1,350,000.
08/29/2008 Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available.
07/14/2010 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $1,276,000.
07/15/2010 Listing entered contract.
07/27/2010 Listing is no longer available.
08/03/2010 Listing entered contract.
09/29/2010 Sale recorded for $999,999.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/539981-condop-333-east-91st-street-yorkville-new-york

The nightly light show "staging" the empty apartments continues unabated with barebulb lamps blazing into the wee hours of the morning.

LOL! Instead of forclosing, the contruction lenders have "renegotiated". I don't understand why they just didn't take the building back. I guess they don't want it either. Per the Real Deal the new bracha sales staff has sold only 6 units in the last 8 months (other than than the bulk sale to foreigners) What makes them think it's going to get any better? Virtually every single problem noted by many posters above are still there. They want to sell? Drop prices 30% - 40%. Even then, it'll be tough.

star8360...whats ur ax to grind with this place ?

The truth isn't always pretty. This is a very attactive building with overall wonderful finishes. However, this building has been overpriced from the beginning. Many other buildings that faced this problem significantly reduced prices and subsequently sold, but after 3 years this building has not materially lowered prices to reflect current market conditions. Except, of course, for the bulk sale where they did reduce prices. I find the strategy fascinating and wonder just how long they can hold on to all of those unsold units at current asking prices.

Azure (333 East 91st Street) has been declared effective by the NY State Attorney General's Office. This allows for immediate occupancy. In addition, construction of all amenity space is complete, and full Concierge Service is now available to all residences.

Lipstick on a pig.

Azure has officially begun closings. A number of units under contract have closed, residents are moving in, and the closing process continues.

"Azure has officially begun closings."

Is there such a thing as an unofficial closing? Just curious.

HSBC Mortgage Corp., the Preferred Lender of Azure, has provided purchasers financing for up to 80% loan to value. HSBC Mortgage Corp. has loans available with terms of up to 30 years.

This thread should be named:
You can drag a horse to water but, it's more fun to beat it to death.

Actually not true - I spoke with them 2 weeks ago. They are ONLY giving 5 & 10 year arms on the Azure. You really should be more truthful - people can easily find out the truth. The mtg broker there said they are only giving the loans because they HAVE to because another dept gave the contraction loan and now they need the building to do well

Um do you mean all 3 closings? Yippee 6 more to close and then what?

Azure pricing is:
- Studios from $520,000
- 1 BR from $901,000
- 2 BR from $1,252,000
- 3 BR from $1,981,000
- 4 BR from $2,500,000
- 4 BR + from $3,220,000

Timers are probably being used now as some barebulb lights randomnly scattered throughout the building just came on tonight in unison, but noboby's home in the still vacant apartments.

Pricing is a joke..

I pay half....maybe

One bed 908???????????? For real??????

I think the number of closings tells the real story no matter how they try to spin it this project was a disaster from the begining

Azure, are the unsold units available for rent? If not, when do you think they will be available to rent?

==========
INVITATION
==========
It's Pumpkin Time!
Azure Invites You To Attend A FREE
Pumpkin Carving Demonstration
and Pumpkin Painting Workshop
With Celebrity Carver Hugh McMahon
Saturday,
October 23
1pm-3pm
Azure_Oct23_Event_v3-01

Free Pumpkin Carving Demonstration and Painting at Azure%u200F
From: info@azureny.com
Sent: Thu 10/14/10 11:54 AM
To: info@azureny.com
Hi,
The Azure is hosting a Pumpkin Carving Demonstration and would like you to attend!
Azure
212.828.4848
333 East 91st Street
New York, NY 10128
info@azureny.com

How much did the bulk buyer pay per sq ft for the apts? And how many?

The bulk sale consisted 19 apartments. Bulk buyers usually demand significant discounts. It wouldn't surprise me if they sold for around $650 to $700 psf. When these close, all future appraisals will be screwed. Oh, and don't forget that these will all be rentals, It's hard to understand what their strategy is. They've sold a total of maybe 6 homes in 8 months (plus a desperate bulk sale). As confirmed above, no bank (other than the construction lender itself) will touch this building. What can they do? Slash prices? NO! Let's throw a Pumpkin Carving Demonstration!

Have the holidays arrived early at the Azure? The entire building is lit up tonight like a Christmas tree decked with barebulb illumination showcasing many more empty "see-through" apartments.

From: info@azureny.com
Sent: Wed 10/27/10 3:39 PM
To: info@azureny.com
Hi,
The commission through the end of the year is 5%!
Azure
212.828.4848
333 East 91st Street
New York, NY 10128
info@azureny.com
Azure_5%_...jpg (470.3 KB)
=========
Ebrochure
=========
"receive 5% Commission through end of year! Azure at 333 East 91st Street is now offering a 5 percent commission on sales through the end of this year. The 5 percent commission is limited to brokers who sign the co broker agreement, register purchasers at the Azure Sales Center and that sign a contract before December 31, 2010."

Even if the contract does not close in 2011? Run to the Azure!!!

It looks like a few families have moved in, so the bldg must have become effective. You can also tell that some of these families bought the combined CD units. These units needed renovation work done to combine the two 2BR into one 4BR, which could explain why it took them so long to move in.

I personally like the bldg. I also heard rumor that it is pretty easy to get 30 year mortgage through HSBC. if you meet certain criteria, they may even allow you to only pay back interest each month. It is tough to get mortgages like this nowadays. With 2nd Ave subway coming up, there is upside potential in its price too. Intrigued...

Twinkle, There was no question about them being effective, nor that there have been some sales, though there have been just a handful. The apartments are also very nice. No one disputes that. But easy to get a mortgage? My dealings with HSBC have been awful. One of the reasons for the lack of sales at this building has been the fact that the ONLY bank financing here has been HSBC. There are no other options as no other bank will touch it. Doesn't that concern you? And don't forget, they are not issuing 30 year fixed loans! If you decide to buy here, make sure you make your contract contingent on the appraisal. Protect yourself.

So there have been 5 closings in 7 months since they declared effective in April and you are intrigued? Wow!

I'm intrigued as to the ultimate fate of this building.
I't got some nice soap-opera aspects to it.
Like the little twists in the plot.
The constant backgroung ticking towards a leap in carrying charges.
The second avenue subway that will transfor the area into...something.
Intriging indeed!

i need somewhere to live and this is a nice bldg, that everybody here apparently agrees. The worse scenario, foreclosure, apparently is out of the picture. So then it is a math problem, isn't it? How much would rent be on nice apts like these? And once market rebounds, which probably will for Manhattan, how much would the apts sell for?

Hard facts and numbers please, no baseless speculations.

Apparently, the individuals involved with the design and development of some of the Ritz-Carlton properties had a hand in the execution of the Azure, creating a sense of understated "luxe" and "class" throughout the building, except for the rooftop entertainment areas where there are oddly no bathroom facilities.

i heard from a source 30% of apts have been sold. here some say only a handful. which is true? do people here have a reliable source for their info or just speculation?

if you are listinening to the sales agents for the building then don't believe them. They have been very consistent in changing the truth. Just look at streeteasy- it shows the number in contract and the number that have closed- not 30%!

Twinkle...what makes you think foreclosure is out of the picture? All they did was refinance the construction loan. They are still not selling apartments in any meaningful amount. How are they going to pay it back? By their own admission they sold 19 apartments in April in a bulk sale (presumably at very low prices) so that they could declare effective (these will be rentals). They had about 10 sales from when they first came to market. That left about 6 apartments which they have sold in the last 8 months. 6! In any book, that is a handfull. Why have they not sold? What's more troubling is why there have been so few closings since they have been effective for 7 months. I suspect getting financing from HSBC is not a easy as Twinkle says. What other answer is there. Anybody have any ideas?

Equally odd, there are no bathtubs in the master bathrooms of the larger units - just a shower!

I am not sure if it isn't a promotional event related to today's NYC Marathon, but tonight I can see two women in the kitchen of an apartment, which looks like it is on the 17th floor in northwest corner of the building, preparing a meal. Although one "stage" light remains on in fewer than 10 units, illuminating bare walls and floors, there still seem to be no other obvious occupants in the building.

Last night, like a scene right out of one of the Wall Street movies, a group of men in white shirts and braces sat around a table in the northwest model apartment listening to a man in a suit making what appeared to be a presentation...

You can now set your watch by the time the lights come on in the building - 5:15 p.m.

Azure is customizing a number of units to meet the growing demand for larger apartments from people who want to raise their children in Manhattan. In recent months, The DeMatteis Organizations has customized 14 units (more than 10 percent of the building) for buyers in Azure, with an expectation of many more to come.

One example of Azure’s ability to customize units to fit the needs of its residents is a 4-bedroom, 4-bath, 3,000-square-foot unit on the 10th floor, which was combined from two 2-bedroom apartments. In addition, the front walk-in closet was converted into a home office.

The developers also recently combined two apartments on the 26th floor to create a 4-bedroom, 3,000-square-foot home with a balcony, oversized master bedroom and views from three exposures; and a 4-bedroom, 3,020-square-foot apartment on the 30th floor. This unit can be converted into either five bedrooms or four bedrooms plus a full office.

So let's get this right.
On SE
Unit 9C was $1.440mm @ 1,418 sq ft
Unit 9D was $1.435mm @ 1,487 sq ft
If bought separately, I would pay $2.875mm for 2,905 sq ft.

For an extra 60 sq ft in your combination of 9CD, you want +$395,000. Do I miss something?

Twinkle, I'm a broker working with a client who has made an offer on an apartment in the building. I have completed a considerable amount of comparable work to determine our offer and woudl be happy to share this information with you off line. You can leave your contact information @ 212.217.0338 and I'll get back with you shortly.

Azure will host a free “Discover Yorkville” event for kids this Saturday, November 20 from 1pm to 3pm at the building (333 east 91st Street at First Avenue), with fun activities including live animals and arts & crafts by The Art Farm in the City (www.theartfarms.org), “Make Your Own Sundae” with Steiner’s Last Licks (www.lastlicksicecream.com), and sports games by Asphalt Green (www.asphaltgreen.org).

i think this is called 'we failed selling 1/2brs to pre/new families, lets try a different route and try our luck at space seeking families' - 1280 5th is trying the same thing right now. what comes next after this attempt fails with a smaller market for that size/price, will the whole floor become available? sounds like you will get a deal though -- same ppsqft that wouldnt move the original sized apts..

jagent, i hope your comps included the bulk sale ppsqft otherwise you're doing your client a huge injustice. & if you have that information, pray tell

Azure, do I have to get a sundae to get my answer. Let's repeat:

So let's get this right.
On SE
Unit 9C was $1.440mm @ 1,418 sq ft
Unit 9D was $1.435mm @ 1,487 sq ft
If bought separately, I would pay $2.875mm for 2,905 sq ft.

For an extra 60 sq ft in your combination of 9CD, you want +$395,000. Do I miss something?

Don't expect an answer from the sales office. They're either clueless or worse. Brooksvale is right. The building has failed selling individual units other than in bulk. Their only hope is in combinations but none of the problems facing the building as a whole (and that the Azure sales office totally ignores) goes away. The market simply isn't big enough to absorb all of those apartments as combinations; especially at the prices that they are asking. Ridiculously, they resort to an Art Farm Day? Kathie Lee Gifford? Pumpkin Carving? Seriously?

Star can u tell me how you got your numbers? How do u know for sure there was a bulk sale? how do u know how many units were sold since then? If the sales office cannot be trusted then how do u get the numbers? I am told the closings are delayed because the developers did lots of customorized work for buyers before closings. The information on web is often delayed and unreliable. E.g. I can see several families have moved into their south facing large units but this is not reflected on this website.

BTW I can tell u we talked to HSBC mortgage guys directly and given the recent low interest rate our TOTAL payment on a particular unit we like is not much more than what we are paying right now for a rental, AND the space is larger AND the unit is much nicer.

A mortgage dealer not related to HSBC was able to find us another bank that is willing to finance but we felt HSBC has better terms.

Regarding the pricing on 9 CD I don't even know why that is an issue. As one previous post mentioned I also think there is room for negotiation, so the final numbers will always be different from the asking. So what if the numbers do not add up exactly?

People need to make informed decisions unfortunately I think this forum is way biased.

One last comment -- the sales office is hired by the developer and their quality does not do justice for the bldg. They have been a bit sloppy when it comes to numbers. But keep in mind, it is negotiable and the custom work they do can easily cost 100-200k if u had to do it yourself, assuming u can get it done with the same quality.

Twinkle, sales agents love your kind. The buyers who are swayed by the moment and the numbers that are presented currently to them. The sales agent just eats it up. They don't even have to describe what the numbers may look like when you are 5 or 10 years into the purchase. If you don't mind the headache in 10 years, then make the sales agent happy and sign away.

Twinkle, you ask how I came up with the numbers? Let's repeat the above post:

"By their own admission they sold 19 apartments in April in a bulk sale (presumably at very low prices) so that they could declare effective (these will be rentals). They had about 10 sales from when they first came to market, again, that was mentioned by Bracha when they took over sales. That left about 6 apartments which they have sold in the last 8 months. 6!"

The best value in this building is in their larger combination homes. The individual 2 and 3 bedroom apartments have been disasters. So the big question is, is there enough of a market for them to sell almost all of their apartments not as individual apartments but as combinations. I think the answer is a big no. In a time when many other properties have been selling larger homes relatively briskly, Azure is languishing. At the right price everything will sell. Their current pricing isn't doing it. But hey, they're giving away free Sundaes!