AZURE intelligence! == new construction on 91st & 1st

It doesn't really matter whether it's 10 or 15 apartments. They are both pitifully low numbers for a building that has been finished for almost a year now and has been for sale for more than 3 years. I also agree with NWT. Why do you care about the specific homes that are occupied? It is kind of creepy.

Once again, my apologiges, but unlike all of the surrounding buildings, I can't see anyone living in the Azure so maybe I am just looking at the wrong floors.

four of the ten sales were combos, so maybe that brings it up to 14. as star and nwt noted, it's not that material. a very slow slog.

The Following Units Have Recently Gone Under Contract At Azure:
4A
List Price: $1,300,000
2 BR
2 Bath
Dining Area
SF: 1,428
Maintenance Per Month: $1,815
Maintenance Per Month PSF: $1.27
Maintenance Per Month Tax Deductibility: 41%
4D
List Price: $634,000
Studio
1 Bath
SF: 734
Maintenance Per Month: 785
Maintenance Per Month Per SF: $ 1.06
Maintenance Per Month Tax Deductibility: 41%
4F
List Price: $520,000
Studio
1 Bath
SF: 601
Maintenance Per Month: 886
Maintenance Per Month Per SF: $ 1.47
Maintenance Per Month Tax Deductibility: 41%

At azureowner1's invitation, I just paid a visit to the front of the Azure and found none of the items that were described. The building remains the same with randomly lit apartments without any obvious residents.

hi John, I will follow up with the super and the porters to see when and what time they take the trash out. This morning on my way out to work I did not see any trash bags. Strange. A week ago after the big storm trash bags were piling up high. I guess you did not see them.

hi star8360 and NWT, you have a good point. It must be disappointing to the developer that only ~15 units (combined or originally designed) are sold so far. My guess is that they want to maximize profits and their strategy is to take their time and sell slowly. They have HSBC bank on their side, which basically gives them an open-ended loan. Time is on their side. Bernanke is doing all the quantitative easing, economy is improving, so they will wait it out if they have to. You only get 30%+ discount when there is a fire sale situation but I think the developer is clearly not in that situation. I am obviously biased as an owner. I expect the sale momentum to pick up steam in the spring season, and the building will be in decent shape after that.

Wow azureowner1. You're drinking the Koolaid! The buiding is complete, they have the construction loan payments, and they are paying all of the maintenance charges (very significant number) on all of those empty homes and they are likely spending alot of money on marketing so they will not be making any money on this building at all. It is just a question of how much they will lose. Also, you must not have access to the closed sale numbers. Most of the homes are closing at price reductions of 30% or so. Some even more and we still haven't seen the bulk sales close.

hi star8360, the developer is not directly paying maintenance charges on those empty homes. Instead, they are paying for the building's operating expenses, excluding tax. This is because it is cheaper for the developer to absorb the operating expenses directly than paying the maintenance charges. Current owners are getting a temporary break too. I do not know how much marketing expenses they are paying, but their broker must carry their fair share in exchange for their commissions. No doubt that there have been price reductions but previously you were also complaining about lack of price reductions. What gives?

here is the most recent report from Miller Samuel on the state of Manhattan property market, http://www.millersamuel.com/reports/pdf-reports/MMO4Q10.pdf. On page 3, 1st paragragh, it says "The listing discount fell sharply to 5.8% from a decade high of 18.3% in the prior year quarter, but edged higher than the three year low of 2.8% in the prior quarter". Clearly, sellers are not offering large discounts any more. Spring selling season is starting soon. Not surprised if you do not get much concessions. It is just the state of the overall market.

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azureowner1, you have proved my point. They will sell when they drop their prices 30%! You proved it further when referencing the Miller average listing discount report. Every other building is doing MUCH better than Azure. Why? Because most other buildings don't have to deal with a land lease Coop with high maintenance. As a result, in order to sell, the owners must reduce prices to offset those serious issues. I have always said that they will sell at the right price. Hopefully, you were one of the 30%'s. It will be very interesting to see what the bulk sale buyers close at. it could be even higher as they should have been rewarded for buying before they declared effective. When will they start to close?

hi John, I just saw piles of trash bags in front of Azure building on my way home. Please look for pizza boxes from Luigi.

hi star8360, I think you do not have the facts straight. According to streeteasy.com, the average price for "recorded sales" is $911/sqft, and the average price for "active sales listings" is $1,089/sqft. Definitely not 30% discount. Moreover, "recorded sales" represents transactions that actually were negotiated uring the first half of 2010. The market was more depressed back then, as the Miller Samuel's report showsed. Also, "recorded sales" so far represent lower floor units for the most part, whereas "active sales listings" has a lot of higher floor units that naturally demand higher prices. Finally, a year ago the developer was probably motivated to sell enough units in order to get Azure offering "effective". Today they are not. The bottom line is that I do not think you will get 30% discount any more any where in today's market.

Also, you should definitely check out offer prices from other new developments in the area. They are easily 15-20% higher than the $1,089/sqft price offered for Azure on average. Some much more. I feel the Azure prices are reasonably adjusted to reflect both disadvantages and advantages of the building. BTW, what do you think is fair? And why do you want to waste your time here if you clearly do not want to buy a unit?

star, the fact that the "bulk sales" have not yet closed, is it because maybe, there was no bulk sale?

@azureowner1: "Moreover, "recorded sales" represents transactions that actually were negotiated during the first half of 2010. The market was more depressed back then, as the Miller Samuel's report showed."

Assuming you're right about the timing of those deals, I don't think an argument based on improving market conditions offers much encouragement for owners. Manhattan overall is flat since H1 2010; the Upper East Side is, if anything, down slightly.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/market/condo_index

hi West81st, sure, I do not disagree with the fact that Manhattan overall is flattish since H1 2010. My point, however, is that those big "discounts" are largely behind us. This is true in both sales and rental market segments in Manhattan based on information from multiple reliable sources. So what then if current owners got a good discount a year ago? Honestly, the debate over whether residual real estate in Manhattan is a "bubble" or not has been going on forever, and honestly only time will tell. From my perspective, I get to live in a brand new and luxury property. And the price we paid is fair, relative to all the potential risks/rewards considerations and relative to alternative options Manhattan. It is quite okay if you feel differently about Azure as far as I am concerned. But please move on and look elsewhere for a better deal if this is not for you. Talk is cheap, and no one ever gets a good deal by whining.

azureowner1: Amen to that. If you're happy, I don't see any reason to second-guess your decision.

Recent Azure Buyer Testimonial
"I am so impressed with the facilities and number of options we have in the common areas and everything is top of the line. The sponsors thought of every detail to make residents happy and comfortable. From the cozy lobby entrance to the extremely efficient and helpful staff, we have everything the most luxurious buildings offer."

This discussion about pricing needs to I think take into account the following factors.

1) See the mortgage interest rate chart in the New York Times Real Estate Section today Jan 16th. Note that interest rates are now starting to increase. Consensus seems to be building that the economy, nationally and in NYC is getting stronger. The Federal Reserve Policy of QE2 (Purchaser of Treasuries) is due to expire in June 2011. If this does occur it is anticipated that interest rates will go up.
2) Also please read the cover page article in the also in The New York Time Real Estate Section Today Jan 16th titled “Why Your Next Place May Cost You More”. This article documents the lack of new construction permits being issued for luxury new construction projects in NYC. As a result of the continuing reduction in supply of new construction inventory, developers across the city are seeing prices begin to increase particularly on new construction larger family sized units.
a. Note a study is now underway by Miller Samuels, nationally recognized appraiser, evaluating the pricing, as well as supply and demand factors in the Yorkville submarket. When completed this study will be publicized.
3) At Azure the inventory of our lowest priced units from flows 4 through 14 continues to decrease this is due to the contracts that have recently been signed (please see my posting of two days ago) and others that have been sent out for signature. Sponsors in several instances are evaluating multiple bids on our lower floor units.
4) Financing liquidity is returning to the National Mortgage Markets. New issues of residential and commercial mortgage backed securities have been successfully placed by Wall Street in the fourth quarter of 2010. With greater financial liquidity prices of mortgage backed securities have begun to rebound. As a result of this greater liquidity national commercial and residential property prices have bugun to increase. This was confirmed by a Bloomberg analysis this past week
5) For those TRUE purchasers that read this blog that are interested in a possible purchase at Azure I suggest you engage in a dialogue with our sales staff sooner as opposed to later to take maximum advantage of:
a. The low interest rates being offered by HSBC that can be locked in till closing,
b. Our remaining lowest priced inventory in the lower half of the building
c. Azure Sponsors on a case by case basis continue to be negotiable but price and seller concessions negotiability will decrease over time as our current sales closed and in contract progresses toward 50%.
d. Please note this past week a second and third money center bank have approached the sponsors of Azure to provide mortgages for Azure home purchasers. The liquidity crisis in financing quality new construction residential real estate seems to be getting better. Upon receipt of underwriting approval this information will be publicized.

“Once upon a time a man appeared in a village and announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10 each.

The villagers, seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest and started catching them. The man bought thousands at $10 and, as supply started to diminish, the villagers stopped their effort. He next announced that he would now buy monkeys at $20 each. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again. Soon the supply diminished even further and people started going back to their farms. The offer increased to $25 each and the supply of monkeys became so scarce it was an effort to even find a monkey, let alone catch it! The man now announce d that he would buy monkeys at $50 each! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would buy on his behalf. In the absence of the man, the assistant told the villagers: ‘Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the man has already collected. I will sell them to you at $35 and when the man returns from the city, you can sell them to him for $50 each.’ The villagers rounded up all their savings and bought all the monkeys for 700 billion dollars.

They never saw the man or his assistant again, only lots and lots of monkeys!

It's not that we don't like the Monkeys...it's the value of the monkeys that's in question.
I like the Azure...it's the value that's in question.

Falco, us liking monkeys, does that mean we should still go to the book signing?

Free cook book, free eats....that spells value.
Hope they have banana fritters!

hi falcogold1, what price would be fair in your opinion and how would you justify your number?

Let's look at other new developments in the neighorhood. Using streeteasy.com numbers, "active sales listings" at Azure is $1,089/sqft, at Georgica $1,603/sqft (E85th and 2nd Ave), at Isis $1,543/sqft (E77th & 2nd Ave), at Lucida $1,965/sqft (E85th & Lexington Ave). Only Century Tower is cheaper, $887/sqft but they are all one bedroom units in low floors. To me, these numbers speak clearly for themselves. If a large family wants to buy a 3-4 bedroom unit (in the 2,000-3000 sqft range), the total saving would be well over $1-1.5 million. Do not know about you, but there is a lot of value here. Granted, Azure location is a little more to the north and to the east, and it is a land lease. But price is fair. You should probably take your story elsewhere. And please do your homework first.

a land lease building should always be 20% less then comparible non land lease buildings add to that the not so great location and the prices should be much lower and the lack of sales is simple proof of that

hi buyer11, let's do some simple math. Georgica avg asking price is $1,603/sqft. Let's use your 20% less number due to land lease risk, I got $1,282/sqft. Let's take another 15% off of the $1,282 number due to not so great location (for 6 very long New York city blocks), I got $1,090/sqft. Avg ask price for Azure is now $1,089/sqft. So what is the problem? Isn't ask price for Azure around $,1089 according to streeteas? I never said Azure is a "steal". I keep saying Azure is fair. No more. No less. But numerous posts here seem to say that Azure is a rip-off or it deserves much lower price. Total nonsense.

Morover, as I said in my previous example, a large family with 2-3 kids can save more than $1-1.5 million for a comparable unit. Why? Let's say they need 2,500 sqft. The price difference between Azure and Georgica would be a little over $1.35 million. They can use the $1.35 million saving to send their kids to private schools, or to maybe buy a second home, or maybe a luxury European car plus a nice boat, or whatever. So every potential buyer ought to think about it. To me, I do not mind walking those 6 long city blocks for $1 million.

BTW, you must be a broker marketing another property, and you are trying to bad-mounth Azure so people buy your property?

>BTW, you must be a broker marketing another property, and you are trying to bad-mounth Azure so people buy your property?

Seriously?

I am not a broker at all nor am I trying to market any other property I have never done that in any post I am just stating my observations and opinions which this is a forum to do so, I stand by what I said about the Azure and I thing the Georgica is a very different property without getting into too much detail I think most the buyers that are considering Georgica are not going to be the ame ones looking at Azure. If you are happy with your purchase that is great good luck to you but I agree with most of the posters here that this building is overpriced and I think time will show that and is already with the lack luster sales

Also I think you are wrong about Azure being "fair price" there is demand out there for realistic "fair priced" quality construction in a good location obviously the lack of sales at Azure is a prime example that people do not consider it "fair" priced as you say

hi huntersburg, sure, how would you explain all the negativity around here? Internet is great, but no one knows who is writing here and what agenda somone has.

I checked out many properties in Manhattan before buying my unit at Azure. Was there any property I did not like. You bet. Did I ever bother to post negative comments on the Internet about a property? Nope, I got a life to live. Quite simply, if a property did not work for me, I would just walk away and continue searching. Why waste time.

However, I did feel compelled to write here because there is just way too much misinformation, groundless speculation, and sometimes just plain BS in this thread. Obviously I know I am very biased as an owner, so I try my best to argue with facts and numbers. So far, I have not heard/read any factual evidence that indicate Azure is a bad deal.

hi buyer 11, thanks for clarification. Sure, the sales record could have been better. For one thing, the crane accident did not help. And without getting into the specifics I can think of other reasons too. But is the fair price for Azure really 30% lower than today's ask price of $1,089/sqft while other new developments in the area are asking for $1,500-1,900/sqft? You got to be kidding. As we both stated, time will tell. And good luck to you. I just do not think you will ever find a luxury new development in Manhattan for 30% below Azure's price, absent another financial crisis. If/when you see it, please post it here. In the meantime, I am still hoping to be able to buy Citibank stocks at $1 per share.

The following is a range of current appraised market values at Azure. This is verified by 12 independent appraisals completed in conjunction with purchasers financing and by individual purchases are as follows. Appraisals have included as per HUD requirements an analysis of comparables, an evaluation of maintenance charges, the quality of construction, individual size of units, building amenities common area charges, an analysis of the azure ground lease views and any customized feature found in the individual apartment. 6th floor range from $975 PSF to $1,072 PSF. 8th floor $1,050 PSF this includes additional investment buy purchaser post closing to complete the construction of a customized terrace. 11th floor $1,102 PSF 14th floor $1,192 PSF. Appraisal values and prices at Azure have been increasing over the last 4 months. The average price of Azure’s current offering plan list prices is an average of $1,259 PSF.
Azure List Offering Plan Prices PSF range from $867 PSF on the fourth floor to $1,453 PSF for the 29th floor. 34th floor Penthouses list offering plan prices are $2,170 PSF prices. Maintenance charges range from a low of $1.23 PSF per month to $2.10 PSF all maintenance charges are 41% tax deductable. The Cooperative Apartment Corporation is debt free.

Please note a comp of importance in addition to those listed by owner Azure owner 1.
A) The Visionaire in Battery Park city completed its construction prior to the Bear Stearns Default. Went effective and is currently selling this high quality new construction comparable New Construction condop has a long term ground lease and maintenance charges higher than Azure’s. Average Recorded Sales price are in excess of $1,207 psf. See street easy listings. This price per square foot is higher than other comparable new condos in the down town market. Note the appraisals rely upon prices of other cooperatives in the Upper East Side sub market.

This concept of the blog by a variety of individuals that are not purchasers but have a strongly held opinions that Azure’s current prices need to be discounted by 30% across the board is NOT JUSTIFIED BASED ON THE FACTS FOUND IN INDEPENDENT APPRAISALS, ACTUAL PURCHASER CLOSINGS AND RECENT CONTRACTS SENT OUT FOR SIGNATURES. All transactions at Azure are individually negotiated and take into account purchasers desires for construction customization and a contract structure that best addresses purchaser’s desires regarding seller concessions, amount of available equity borrower’s ability to cover carrying charges and finally tax considerations of domestic and international purchasers.

mattonegroup: Thank you for sharing the appraisal data. Information is good.

I think one concern might be the possible influence of HSBC's dual role on the independence and objectivity of the appraisals . Unlike an arm's-length lender, HSBC seems to benefit more from aggressive valuations than conservative ones. Funding a purchase at Azure probably doesn't increase HSBC's overall exposure to the project, while closed sales will increase the value of the collateral for that exposure and diversifies the exposure itself. I don't mean to say the appraisals are tainted, just that the lender's interest might be a factor to consider.

As a West Sider, I have no dog in this fight, and I apologize if my comment is off-target. Again, thank you for sharing the data. Azure seems to be a complicated property to value, and the complexity is likely a factor in the slow pace of sales.

Ugh, grammar: "diversifies" should be "diversify".

Answers to two questions: 2) No doubt it is more complicated. This is a consequence to the legal requirements set up by the Educational Construction Fund (ECF) and the City of New York to build MS 114. As mentioned previously, this deal was originally bid for by the Sponsors in an original RFP over 5 years ago. Under New York Law The Educational Construction Fund must own the land under the school and the Azure coop for a minimum of 40 years. As a result under NY Law Azure must be a co-op built on a ground lease. Complicated yes, but this is a classic public Private partnership that results in a new MS 114 school and a new luxury residential project both of which the community along 1st Ave needed. Again although complicated. The economics of the transaction when understood have significant benefits to purchasers. That is why, as sponsors, we council prospective purchasers to early on, AFTER our initial sales presentation, to speak with our HSBC residential mortgage loan officer Angelo DeJoy angelo.f.dejoy@us.hsbc.com (212) 472- 0181 and to discuss the transaction with a qualified independent lawyer that has an expertise in land lease and has already closed with other purchasers at Azure. I am confident we have a very good real estate product and a team of professional that can address the questions of any prospective purchaser. It does take time however. 2) Under New Federal Banking Regulations (ERISA) Mortgage lenders must have independent appraisals conducted where the mortgage loan officer has no contract with the selection payment or evaluation of the appraiser. The appraiser has no knowledge of the contract terms when they conduct their appraisals. Note as an additional indication of the conservative nature of HSBC to ensure there are no conflicts of interest a second appraiser is retained on transactions that are above a purchase price threshold that I believe is $1,000,000. Also please note that HSBC Mortgage Corp., The Residential Mortgage Company is a separate corporation from HSBC Construction Lender that provided the debt to build the building. HSBC Mortgage Corp. is investing new money into the Azure transaction and holds the mortgages of the individual purchasers in their portfolio until such time as they can be sold on the secondary mortgage market. I mentioned in a previous posting, the secondary mortgage market has been making a comeback in the last quarter of 2010. Net proceeds of an individual sale at Azure go to pay down the debt for a group of international construction lenders that participated in original construction loan headed by HSBC construction lender. All this was set up previously when the Azure co-op corporation (333 East 91st Street Owners Corp.) went effective April 2010.

azureowner1,
No offence by the monkey story...just thought it fit perfectly here in this discussion.
I will answer you 'value' question when I have a bit more time.

On a personal note:
I am offended by a broker using multiple screen names to represent mult. persons. You are asking me to believe that AFTER completing a purchase, closing, moving in and making pizza trash that, then you would introduce yourself to SE and spend time posting. You clearly spent NO time on SE prior to the purchase or you have NEVER purchased there. All serial posters on this site, bull or bear are well acquainted issues surrounding this building in particular.
THIS THREAD IS 15 MONTHS OLD!!!!
What was you username prior to your purchase. You certainly sound like someone who does their homework prior to a significant acquisition. We know your ALL B.S.. This is a weak attempt a subterfuge and further example of what drowning broker does under desperation or perhaps under water already. If your working strictly commission you must be getting pretty hungry to think the rest of us are this sleepy. Go ahead...deny away...it's beyond believable to my 6 year old. I would implore you to have a modicum of self respect, dignity and professionalism.
azureowner1=phony broker postings
Hope your buyers are dumber than us.
In the words of the wise one....FLMAO (ass spelled azz)

falcogold, are you an owner in this building? To be offended seems a bit much unless you have some direct personal relationship here.

hi falcogold1, can you carry out a mature and serious discussion at all? Just a quick recap of what you wrote in the past couple of days:

1)A monkey story
2)Banana fritters
3)Personal attack with inappropriate language

As far as I am concerned, you have lost your credibility. For the record, I am definitely not a broker. I closed my purchase a short while ago, and already moved in. I did see this thread prior to my purchase, and honestly it had me spend a lot of time investigate thoroughly each potential issue/risk factor raised. As I said before, I felt compelled to post my comments AFTER the closing because as an insider/owner, I have a skin in the game and definitely want to see Azure be successful. There is simply too much misinformation, misguided understanding, groundless speculations, malicious rumors, and false or partially true statements in this thread. I sincerely hope my posts so far have helped to clarify a few things, especially the value that Azure offers. And I said upfront that I am an owner so I do not claim neutrality here. Is there anything wrong with an owner defending his building against all the skeptism, pessimism, and negativism?

azureowner1, i guess it's not acceptable to disagree with your financial decision. as an aside i think that the pricing for all of the new developments you mentioned is totally out of whack with value. however, given the restrictive nature of coop lending these days many people find themselves only able to buy in condos where banks seem to be stretching the allowed financing to near-bubble levels. there is no way that any bank should prudently lend in a building that is not 70% sold and owner occupied, yet they are doing it left and right. where that might put you in five to ten years (or even one or two, depending on when the banks think they've covered their asses enough to avoid construction loan losses) when lenders do not allow financing in buildings that have too many rentals or too few sales or whatever, and you need to sell, who knows?

you may be very happy with your purchase. good for you. but you will only know how well you did in hindsight, when people need to resell units. even if you never need to do so, the quality of your investment decision will be reflected by the success of those efforts. many of us have been following new construction and resales for years. you're on a public discussion board, admitting that you do not claim neutrality, having been one of only 10 to close in a 128 unit building that has been marketing for about three years, yet you have the extreme presumption to state that others have lost their credibility. the skepticism, pessimism, and negativism are not based out of nothing. just because YOU bought doesn't negate the facts.

hi aboutready, I am not here to make everyone agree with my financial decision at all. I am here to dispel the skepticism, pessimism, and negativism that are based purely on thin air. As I said, I've followed this thread for a while and spent a lot of time investigate each issue/concern raised.

For example,

(1) a while ago there was a rumor posted here that HSBC was going to foreclose on Azure or something like that. As we all know now, HSBC actually extended a great construction loan to the developer at great terms.

(2) there was a post about MS 114 that it would be too noisy. It turns out that MS 114 is one of the top middle schools in Manhattan, and having lived here for a while I can definitely say I do not hear much noise at all. Nor have I heard anything about this topic recently.

(3) there were multiple posts about whether anyone actually lives in the building at all. Well, I do not think I need to say more about this any longer.

I can go on and on, like HSBC mortgage, bulk sale, number of units sold/closed, etc. You can get the details by doing your own homework, but you get the picture.

Finally, you said "many of us have been following new construction and resales for years". I do not mean to be cocky here, but I have also bought and sold many properties in multiple cities, so I am not exactly a newbie either. You are absolutely right that only time will tell how my decision may turn out, but why would someone be so sure that Azure is doomed already? This post is not about me or my financial decision. It is about what is true and what is not.

azureowner1, so far the sales results have been awful. and if they improve, i am doubtful that it reflects anything other than a possibly inappropriate (according to standards that will likely be imposed immediately after a certain number of sales) laxness.

but, whatever. you decided to buy here with less than 20% sold, which is generally a horrible decision in a down market. have fun.

@aboutready: "...you decided to buy here with less than 20% sold, which is generally a horrible decision in a down market."

Holy sweeping generalization, AR. How would anyone even quantify something like that?

would you buy in a development that was less than 20 % sold? particularly after three years of marketing?

you're right. how do you quantify? and because you can't, and people don't think to, they go ahead and buy.

hi aboutready, if I may ask, what is your skin in the game here? I am an owner here at Azure to clarify things for future owners. What is your story? I do not mean to be "nosy", but it helps to know where you come from. And how much do you know about Azure?

And if I may ask the same questions to buyer11, falcogold1, etc. Are you currently in the market at all, or you just want to share your views/opinions? Sorry if I sound a little "nosy", but I can not really see why someone would ever bother to post comments about any property without a skin in the game.

What is your definition of skin in the game?

This is a forum to post comments

What an entertaining thread! Cannot help but ask some questions at this point:

@JohnJohn: Can we assume you found the trash in front of Azure? Can we assume it is now established that people are actually living in the building? I was amused that you actually did go out to check out the trash bags!

@aboutready: May I ask if you ever made any purchase during the years you followed new constructions and resales in Manhattan? I apologize in advance if you feel this question make you uncomfortable. I am just curious I guess.

@azure owner: First of all, congratulations on moving into a home that you apparently enjoy. Can you please give me some info on the mortgage terms? Like almost everything else about Azure, there is a bit of conflicting information here, but I guess you are qualified to answer. Many thanks.

'As far as I am concerned, you have lost your credibility.'

As if I had any!

'For the record, I am definitely not a broker. I closed my purchase a short while ago, and already moved in. I did see this thread prior to my purchase,'

I know I just got married but I just discovered Match.com. No wait, I saw Match.com but thought it had something to do with fire.

1)A monkey story
2)Banana fritters
3)Personal attack with inappropriate language

1) I'll cop to the monkey story because it's an excellent allegory in the description of value and it's false sense of intrinsic nature.
2) I'll take credit for the fritters because it's funny and delicious.
3) Personal attack: I'm not personally attacking azureowner1. I'm calling out azureowner1=phony broker.
I'm obsessed with RE. It's not my profession, just my passion. Your standing at the RE obsessive's water cooler BS'ing away and I'm calling you on it. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Working multiple usernames in a lame attempt to fill your boring broker days with some notion that the higher ups will spot your marketing genius and haul you to the top is wishful thinking at best. How many newly married men spend their energies convincing friends that their new wife is actually good looking?
The answer is none.
Finally, inappropriate language...

Azure once had this broker
Who thought he was a bit of a joker
On line he was a phony
The acting won no Tony
But his azz disserved a hot poker

How is that for inappropriate language?

there is a feature on SE where you can 'ignore me'....go on....click on it.

falcogold, how can you be so sure Azure owner1 has multiple usernames? If RE is your passion, why don't you use you expertise to comment on the facts in his posts, as opposed to writing stories and... poems? BTW just because you are "passionate" about something does not make you an expert.

Welllll, GOOOOOD MORNING VIETNAM! I mean Upper Yorkville! Stepped away for a couple of weeks while the discussion thread ran from 215 to 300 something and then returned for another tour of duty. Or should I say DooDee! Welcome to the neighborhood Azureowner1(maybe you can speak to the rest of your neighbors and they can have similar call signs, like Azureowner2, and 3 and so on;).....I'll give you some credit for sticking up for your investment, but you may spitting into the wind until there are some serious sales numbers posted. I for one wish the building would sell faster and simply can't see these numbers work at $1,100/sf. But, I'm not saying that the numbers need to be $700-$800 either. I analyze these things for a living and somewhere between $950and $1,025 seems to be where the wheelhouse would be for new this type of property should sell. But if the sponsor has sweetheart terms for the next 2 years, then god bless 'em cause they can play all day at the tepid sales pace they're enjoying. Enjoy your new home and stay away from the crazies on these boards, they're just a big energy suck.

1) I know him, he is an owner. Courtesy, Education, and Facts should be the standard in this Forum
2) As far as the time of marketing at azure, a gentle reminder. The Azure Project started for me in 2005 with the acquisition of the land. Marketing efforts for sales began just before the Bear Stearns Bankruptcy in summer 2008. Since then the real estate industry Liquidity Crisis has been severe on its impact for ALL NEW Construction Projects Nationwide. In 2008 Fannie Mae made a recession policy that they would not purchase any mortgage of a purchaser at a New Construction Project without that project already being 70% sold. This effectively stopped sales at All new construction projects that were not further along in sales and had completed their construction. Note all the competing new construction projects that I competed against during that time had gone effective and were close to completing their construction. We did not complete our construction till April 2010. And go effective till April 2010. There were not that many all cash buyers in the market in the middle of a recession. Fortunately the Sponsors at Azure have the financial where with all to withstand these pressures and the long standing relationships with their lenders and The City of New York to find solutions to these market pressures.
3) We are now coming out of a two year recession that has had 10% unemployment. I think we all agree the economy is getting better. NYC employment is improving. Outstanding luxury residential inventory has been reduced dramatically in the last 6 month. No New Construction inventory is in the pipeline since a minimal amount of new building permits have been issues over the last 2 years. Interest rates are at historic lows of 5%, at lease for the immediate future.
4) I think the any purchaser that purchases a quality product at or close the bottom of the real estate cycle that has thoroughly reviewed the market as to the alternatives, where the asset is in zip code 10128, one of the wealthiest zip codes in the country will do financially well over time. The buyer coming in and signing contracts at azure will be the beneficiaries of increasing values over time as well.
5) Just as importantly the community of owners that is evolving at Azure is very strong financially, has diversity of families, retired couples, lawyers, doctors financiers and will in my opinion be a wonderful living environment.

To clarify Azure owner 1 is an owner. As to the other participants in this blog I am unaware of their ownership or their professions. I stand ready to meet with any party interested in purchasing at Azure. Just ask for the owners representative when you come to the sales office. I will also be in attendance at our book signing event on the 19th.

This Forum -- Dedicated to Courtesy, Education, and Facts

huntersburg,
Am I the owner of the building? Pleassssse..........
You also answer to the 'serial poster multi-username'...that's what I'm not good with.
We are ALL in this together...one water cooler. One username, take credit for your genius and your bobos. It's great that we all don't agree, that's what keeps me coming back.
My discontent is aimed at those who utilize SE as armature night at RE sales school.

falcogold, how can you be so sure Azure owner1 has multiple usernames? If RE is your passion, why don't you use you expertise to comment on the facts in his posts, as opposed to writing stories and... am I supposed to call those poems? BTW just because you are "passionate" about something does not make you an expert. To me, your comments are rude, without any substance, facts or logic.

I concur with above that this forum should have courtesy, education and facts as standard. Otherwise why should anyone waste their time here? Just to get misled to dream about $700/sf high end apt in UES Manhattan? Vodka has the same function.

Mattonegroup: ubbatubba said he thinks around $1000/sf is fair value, and he claims to be a professional. What do you think of that?

Ubbatubba there are a select number of units in the building that are for sale between $950 and 1,023 psf. Details on these units can be found by visiting the sales center. These lower priced units are currently in higher demand. Some of these units recently went under contract that I posted 5 days ago. Other contracts at this price point were sent out for signature and purchasers are awaiting preliminary approval of their financing package at HSBC.

Thanks Mattone, I understand you have some units in that range. I am, fortunately for me I guess, one of your rent stabilized neighbors(you know, the kind everyone loves to hate unless they're friends,family or themselves), so I am not in the market per se, though I own some units in the city. I personally love your buildng. Love what you built. Love what you've done with the school(yeah, I got a kid there). My feeling is that the blended average needs to be closer to my numbers, but my numbers are predicated upon a sell-out at a normal absorption rate which is clearly not the case here. I'm also in the biz and hope/wish you much success, but I also have a feeling you've been snakebitten a couple of times; first with the crane, then the downturn, the poor initial representation by packes & Co., and the failure of the recent DEGI group's departure. The pricing always seemed a bit dicey and if you look back on this string I've defended the landlease, neighborhood, etc til the cows came home. Unfortunately, the cows haven't come home yet.

Ubbatubba, thank you for your analysis. The unit price varies with so many factors such as floor level, apt size, # of bedrooms, condition of construction etc.. Did you consider those factors in addition to market condition? -- Just trying to understand how much margin of error we may have here.

UBBATUBBA The sales staff of DE is here working under their new company brand Keller Williams, the Third Largest Brokerage Company in the Country. The sales staff is now well versed in the details of the benefits of the neighborhood, the ground lease, HSBC financing and the quality of the physical real estate. The middle school 114 has a dynamic principal who has created a great educational environment for your child. I met him at the ribbon cutting opening the school last summer. I was very impressed with he and the staff at the school.
Pricing is what the market will bear over time.. We have been negotiable at each stage of the marketing process. However each stage in a rising market will have a different amount of negotiability. We were most negotiable at the first stage prior to construction completion. We did deals in the second stage to go effective. We are now in the third stage between 30 and 50% sold. Inventory is tightening on our lowest price units at the base and middle of the tower. The fourth stage after 50% sold will be most interesting as we will have the only inventory of new construction large family sized units in the Yorkville submarket. I am not sure when stage 4 will begin but i think we are close. Patience is a virtue on our part. Our early buyers, we, our financial institutions and their appraisers all believe we will be well rewarded over time. The lower floor units are moving at an absorption rate meeting the industry averages. Come to the event on the 19th bring a friend.

ubbatubba, i think i will hate you for two reasons, your rent control and your kid in MS114

Keller Williams -- the Third Largest Brokerage Company in the Country.

don't hate twinkie, just be envious. besides, who else was willing to live in this neighborhood 23 years ago when first avenue was just a bunch of bad bars(Sandbar, Surf Club for you real oldtimers).

Thanks for the invite Mattone; I'll check my less than crazy schedule.

"We are now coming out of a two year recession that has had 10% unemployment. I think we all agree the economy is getting better. NYC employment is improving. Outstanding luxury residential inventory has been reduced dramatically in the last 6 month."

Really? Unemployment is getting better? Really? The economy is getting better? Really? Outstanding luxury residential inventory has been reduced dramatically? Really?

Are you really suggesting that 91st and 1st is the same as 89th & Fifth? both are in the same zip code.

azure owner 1, i don't know if you are still around or you are simply put off by some of the tasteless comments before. Thanks for establishing that actual human beings capable of producing trash are living in the building. In one of you posts you mentioned current residents are "getting a break" in fees, what did you mean?

and alanhart, what did you mean when you quote those phrases, are you agreeing or disagreeing?

hi ubbatubba, you said "...somewhere between $950and $1,025 seems to be where the wheelhouse would be for new this type of property should sell." I think you are onto something. Based on streeteasy, avg "recorded sales" for Azure is $911/sqft and avg "active sales listing" is $1,089/sqft. So they are not that far apart from your numbers. BTW, please keep in mind that "active sales listing" price represents the seller's offer/ask price. Based on Samuel Miller report, there is usually a "listing discount", which averaged 5.8% in Q4 2010. So if a potential buyer could potentially bid ~10% lower and maybe meet the developer half way in the middle.

disclaimer: I have no idea how flexible/negotiable the developer is now. I signed my contract almost a year ago when every one was getting scared by the doom and gloom of a "double dip" recession.

hi twinkle, just saw your question. Sorry if I was not clear last time. Each unit's "monthly maintenance fee" has two portions, one is tax payment to the gov't, and the other is actual maintenance expenses like heat/electric/doorman. The developer is now paying the maintenance portion for the entire building because they still own the majority of the units and they can save money by doing so. In the end, current owners get a break/waiver temporarily. I expect that when the developer has sold enough units they will terminate this waiver, then all owners (including the developer) will pay for the full maintenance fee. I do not know where the breakeven may be to the developer. And it also depends on how fast they can sell and close the units.

Hey twinkle,
Welcome to SE. I could be wrong but a quick search of these very chat boards reviles your username to be about 4 hours old. If I am mistaken, you could indicate on which thread I might find it. So I'll jump the gun and say that it's new. For a newbie to jump right into the fray is unusual. Unless twinkle is yet another one of the never ending multiple usernames your using to make your ridiculous point.
The smell of BS is killing me.
Go ahead and point out the thread that you have contributed to before today.
I am not above a act of contrition.

falcogold, if I point out when I posted before, what are you going to do? Are you going to shut up or call yourself names?

is it that hard to carry out a civilized conversation like a normal human being?

I am not above a act of contrition
Point out the thread.
I'll bring the fritters to the shindig/cook book extravaganza covered in the sweetest apology you ever tasted.
One fritter per username...twinkle..how many for you?
YLSOS (hint: middle S=Sack)

Falcogold, now I am really disappointed. Now I actually have to agree with you on something, that is you indeed have no credibility. With your investigative skills, you should try not to take any jobs that pay you to think.

To save you the suspense, let me give you a hint: look no further, within this thread, it may take you a while though because it does have a whopping 4 pages.

After you find it, please let me know what act of contrition you will take. A suggestion: write over your forehead " I am the jerk falcogold" when you go to the book event. Hey I may not be there, but I will be just as happy to let other people have the pleasure of meeting you.

i've met falco, and it's a pleasure. a nice guy with a medical degree. i guess he doesn't need to be paid to think in medicine.

twinkle-e-dee, go shine your light so bright, go tell some bedtime stories tonight.

when grandpa was a cranky young piece of shit, he thought buying in an overpriced building was a great idea, children.

btw, twinkle, it is just so obvious that you created yourself just for this thread. sad, and horrifically lacking in credibility. a problem with this thread in general. i wouldn't add to it if i were you. it looks ugly as is.

A medical degree? No wonder there are so many problems with our healthcare system. Do they teach anything other than foul language in medical school nowadays? Can I trust my doctor will be able to find important medical information in medical recods, which are typically tens of pages long? If I were you/falcogold, I would not flash that medical degree at this less than glorious moment.

And if you stand by somebody who just made false accusations and uses foul language all the time, that does not say much about yourself either.

Indeed it is time for me to do something more pleasant. Have a nice life.

Indeed it is time for me to find something more pleasant to do. Have a nice life.

Aboutready, I just saw your second post. if you were not actually coherent I would have thought you were falcogold's alter ego. I admit I only contributed to this thread, because I came across azure and wanted to know more about it. Is there anything wrong with doing your homework as opposed to shooting off the hip? The way you guys twist things around is disgusting. When you cannot win an argument, you lounge personal attack. and I was not even arguing with falcogold about azure, I just could not stand the way he talked. He said he is not above contrition well where is he now?

You are the guy who followed new construction for years right, did you make any money during the last bull market? I know quite a few people who have been saying apts are too expensive for past ten years, only to see them go higher. Do me a favor, leave me alone from now on. Do me an even bigger favor, tell me the hospital your friend works at so that I will never go there, for my own safety.

I do not want to have anything to do with somebody who uses abusive language in a public forum. Do not tell me this is a joke.

twinkle, no, you're wrong on so many levels. hint. you can't ask to be left alone when you're posting on a public site. get a clue.

we have been following buildings such as azure for YEARS. including falco. we have been doing our homework, and i do a bit more. where is he now? oh please, you think he should pop up to respond to your comments, which actually were much less polite than his? really?

hi twinkle, it is very clear to every one that "aboutready" has crossed the line completely. It is not just about the use of foul language. It is also about the "shooting off the hip", and about their making groundless accusations without anything to back up their statements. Today "aboutready" (and falcogold1) got completely exposed.

BTW, I just found many inflammatory comments by "aboutready" on streeteasy. Here is an example, http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/15595-moscow-times-real-estate-investors-return-to-new-york-. Apparently "aboutready" claims that she is a woman and she is an expert in Russian buyers of real estate.

The story gets better. I googled "streeteasy aboutready", and apparently "aboutready" is a moderator on www.brickunderground.com, and here is the URL http://www.brickunderground.com/forum/a_message_from_brickundergrounds_moderators. It is very interesting that "aboutready" wrote the following on her own web site "We do, however, ask you to refrain from attacks that are particularly virulent or personal". Wow, no kidding. It seems to me that "abouteasy" is a bit phychotic and her full-time job is to write inflammatory comments on the Internet.

azureowner -- You got the crap kicked out of you, so you are resorting to ad hominem attacks. Yawn ... Just take your licks and move on.

Pulling out all the stops. We need an exterminator.

Azureowner: i really do not want to waste any time in this any more.

Midtwoneast: you may need to work on your right and wrong. Falcogold made wrong accusations, and is now hiding in shame. So his now not so classy lady friend (she could well be falco himself) jumped out and started to talk trash. Now you are claiming victory on their behalf? Am I supposed to throw f words back to win this battle? If that is what it takes, this is not something worth winning. If this is the quality of this forum, then it is not worth coming.

Trash!

oh please, you guys are trying to turn this thread into an infomercial. take your spam elsewhere.

I think falcogold and aboutready should at least give twinkle and azureowner1 credit for making their way all the way from the outer fringes of Spanish Harlem (or is it Queens?) at 91st St. and Avenue D to post their comments. And then they have the return trip all the way back. You have to admire such dedicated shilling.

(a) Wrong -- Trying to talk people into a disaster of a building, based on false information, and then acting high and mighty when called out.

(b) Right -- Pointing out (a).

There; I have distinguished between right and wrong.

Does anyone else find twinkle's prudish over-reaction vaguely familiar? Shades of ph41 and various trolls, methinks.

midtownereast: please point out what false information you are talking about.

It is totally the other way round.

Seriously? I don't have that much time. It's like saying: "Please list all the stupid things Sarah Palin has ever said." Azure is clearly a shill and you are backing him/her up for some reason (possibly you are the same person).

Please do list "all the stupid things", I am waiting.

This is just the top ten:

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/sarahpalin/a/palin-top-10.htm

For more, just put "stuopid things Sarah Palin has said" in Google. God bless the Internet.

Sorry I was not clear, Please take your time to list all the false information you are talking about. I can wait because I actually really want to know.
At least we have one thing in common, that is about Sarah Palin.

Mattonegroup: Thank you for your thorough response to my questions regarding HSBC and appraisals. I have no doubt that the relationships are formally arm's-length, and that all ERISA requirements are being met so the loans can eventually be offered in the secondary market.

My concern as a prospective buyer would be more prosaic. Until completely unaffiliated entities start lending at Azure, valuations will depend in part on HSBC's ability and inclination to shift exposure from one corporate organ to another. (I know they're separate corporations, but let's not kid ourselves; it's not a coincidence that HSBC is the only bank writing mortgages on an HSBC-financed project.)

The appraisals are one small aspect of that wider concern: the valuations are legitimate within the context of financing being available, and right now it is available from only one source. At this point, HSBC seems strongly committed to the project, so maybe this issue is of purely theoretical importance; still, I think it will be a major milestone when other lenders come on-board.

Lots of interest in this building. Amazing! But like I read on another thread, for those who have nothing to do with this development:

"if you're not talking about [this] particular situation, wtf are you doing here? this is a thread started [about Azure], not looking for your opinion about [who created a posting name to post about a building you don't live in or don't want to live in]

really, [twinkle] has enough on his/her plate with [whatever twinkle has]. she[/he] doesn't need your pontificating on how well or not [purchasing in a building of no relevance to you works out].

hi Mattonegroup, you said "Please note this past week a second and third money center bank have approached the sponsors of Azure to provide mortgages for Azure home purchasers...Upon receipt of underwriting approval this information will be publicized". By "money center bank", do you mean a mega bank like JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Citibank, and Wells Fargo? How big of a boost do you think the building would get if one or two additional bank can provide mortgage to Azure buyers? My sources tell me that these banks usually require at least 50% sold and/or owner-occupied as their underwriting guidelines.

Because one must have a sense of humor to be in un-real estate, I am making this post so we can all proudly point to that fact that we've generated 400 Comments. There, I did it.

It appears that Huntersburg has lost [his/her] [effing] mind.

you're still reading the troll? why? grey is a good color for hb, suits the personality.

please kindly note that streeteasy.com has deleted the posts by "aboutready" a couple of days ago that used abusive and foul language including the "F" word. Hopefully discussions in the future will be based on substance, facts, and courtesy.