northside piers..commence puking

you can cook while sitting on your couch

Humility never killed anyone. If your so lucky that you didn't take a beating in this recent global correction, the least you can do is shut up. There's a lot of decent people out there - could be your sons or daughters, mother's or father's, brother's or sister's - that are really suffering due mostly to bad luck and bad timing.

Show some class, humility, and decency and keep your mouth shut. Who gains anything by frolicking in folly and loss?

actually, i don't get the post. it's a one bedroom in in a new building that's probably decent although i haven't been in there, just been on the outside and on the pier which is fantastic. so what? it's $399K not $1.399K. anyone remotely interested would price at a lower psf price anyway.

and a lot of people are suffering because of ignorance, greed, and their own reckless financial behavior. Those who behaved responsibly, spent within their means, saw it coming and tried to warn others of the risks are entitled to a little schadenfreude.

who made you the hall monitor by the way? Or is that your Williamsburg shortsale that marco is frolicking over?

What's with all the nasty barbs. If owner wants to stay, then stay. If they want t osell, then go ahead and mark it down to where the market will clear!. What's the big deal. Owner paid too much, who cares.

It serves noone to gloat, or point out mistakes. We all fail, and we are all intimately familiar with our personal failures, whether we want to admit it or not.

Incidentally, Northside Piers, at least monetarily, is one of (if not THE) best values in Metro New York right now.

you're on a board that discusses real estate pricing and change. what do you expect?

you're last sentence may explain your personal interest in this one sale/building.

25 year tax abatement (virtually no taxes). 7 minute walk to L train. 25 total minutes commute to Penn Station. Private Outdoor space. Gym. New Construction. Financially sound. Great neighborhood. 40+% discount to original asking prices. Nearly 50% less $$ per square foot than Lincoln Square.

Who cares about my interests or yours. Show me empirical data that can possibly suggest that this is less than the best value in Metro New York right now!

It's a decent value, but whoever buys it (and it is about to go in contract) had better have done their homework here. I've never really liked the building, and several residents have been pretty vocal about longstanding issues.

About to go in contract? How bout, One Northside Piers is already over 80% sold! If it weren't for the fanatical financial regulators the building would be near sold out. Regardless, it is all relative.

Needless to say, Toll Brothere, the developers of Northside Piers, have SCALE. With SCALE comes LEVERAGE. With LEVERAGE comes SALES. Call it whatever you want, employ all the sophisticated semantics and mathematical models you want, the reality is that Northside Piers is offering hands down the best value in Mertro New York. The Edge simply can not compete. They don't have SCALE!

Show me empirical data that might suggest I am incorrect? With all due respect, who cares about the frickin dishwasher?

hey I got wiped out and had to start over again after the last bear market and could certainly get taken out again before this ones over. Im not gloating. Im just pointing out a market occurence which may help other people make more informed decisions. Its not personal, its business.

mad0415,

Do you have evidece supporting 1NSP over 80% sold?

mad0415, I was referring to the specific apartment listed. I know the building is closer to being sold out (something like 40 units left, I think), but to be fair, it's been on the market for a few years now. I don't know what you mean by "scale" especially if you think that NSP has it and the Edge doesn't - those are very similar products, as much as the marketers might want you to think otherwise. And no, nobody cares that much about the dishwasher, but the issues I was referring to are quite a bit more serious than that. I'd be a bit more measured in my enthusiasm - "best value in Metro New York" makes you sound like a desperate broker/seller/owner, even if you're not.

"25 total minutes commute to Penn Station."

Who commutes to Penn Station?

You must be an agent, only they would consider this a "feature".

the problem as i see it is that toll will undercut the purchasers at one northside when they start closings in two northside. or it will go rental at a very poor rent/buy comparison.

toll bros. is not the model of good health. the leverage runs in the wrong direction.

mad0415 - Is this your place, your listing, or a close friend/relatives of yours? Because, you're very defensive about this listing. Ever hear about the Streisand effect? Your defensiveness proves the point.

definite broker

Where is the empirical data to disprove my hypothesis? Why do so many people want to get caught up in irrelevant information - like who I am or what I do or "the Streisand Effect"? The point is, there simply is no better value in Metro New York. Toll Brother's continues to prove this point by clearing inventory.

If you think I am wrong, show me the data.

why is it irrelevant that you're a dirty, rotten stinking, lying broker?

mutombonyc - I do have evidence. I will provide the latest exact numbers as soon as I confirm them.

"I do have evidence. I will provide the latest exact numbers as soon as I confirm them"

thank you for providing todays entertainment. I am predicting a carolst. type meltdown. If you do work for Toll or you are representing it in anyway, you are doing it an incredible disservice. bless you my friend.

"I do have evidence. I will provide the latest exact numbers as soon as I confirm them"

thank you for providing todays entertainment. I am predicting a carolst. type meltdown. If you do work for Toll or you are representing it in anyway, you are doing it an incredible disservice. bless you my friend.

evidence?

as soon as you confirm?

nope...

as soon as you make it up.

You folks are extraordinarily inaccurate with your presumptions. You suggest that I am a "rotten stinking, lying broker". You suggest that I am "representing" Toll. I have only made one suggestion and it is a hypothesis on compelling value.

When you allow irrational pessimism and misjudgement to cloud your ability to objectively analyze a situation, you will only cost yourself - time, friends, money.

I am advising people on this board to comprehensiveily and objectively view and assess what Toll is offering compared to anything else they have looked at. Then you decide.

I have already done my homework. My hypothesis stands; Toll Brothers is among the top deals in Metro New York in terms of total VALUE.

So what you are saying is that if I'm optimistic, and I BUY some over-priced real estate, I can gain time, friends, and money?

mad0415 is like the bizarro yoda of real estate. he still hasnt come up with his evidence. must still be confirming.

riddle me this batman..1st..why would i buy in NSP at these level when i could buy a comp in Manhattan for the same cash ? 2nd..if NSP still isnt fully sold, how well is NSP gonna do with the The Edge opening up along with it ? could certainly make for some compelling value then

mad0415, you brought it on yourself. You lashed out someone personally as if they had made some personal criticism, when they did no such thing. They made fun of a listing and a price, which as pointed out is perfectly fair game on a board dedicated to real estate offerings.

Had the other party made some kind of personal critique, maybe you'd have had a point. But they didn't.

Actually YOU were the one who took it to a personal leve, so like I said, you brought it on yourself.

the point that i find both interesting and deceptive is this claim regarding toll bros., as distinct from NSP. Barrons removed Toll from its list of top CEOs this year, due to an "earnings crash" as building slowed. it is well known that toll is having difficulties at numerous properties.

if you're still hot for a toll bros. property, and you prefer manhattan, there's the wildly successful 303 E. 33rd to be considered. maybe mad0415 has some reliable info explaining the bizarre listing history for that building?

looks like perry mason jr can't come up with the evidence. fall back position is now downgraded to hypothesis---which sounds a whole lot like "i made it up."

To all the bad news bears out there, one thing these Brooklyn projects have is an incredibly generous tax abatement. Manhattan projects dont have it and future Brooklyn ones wont either because the law, I believe, has been changed. It would be nice to know that Mayor Bloomberg and Christine Quinn (yuk) in their 4th, 5th or 6th terms wont be picking the pockets of any one enjoying this abatement.

marco-m - you have not done your homework. There is absolutely no possible way you can get a similar "comp" - in terms of new construction, view, $/sq. ft., tax abatement, discount on purchase price, amenities offered, proximity to subway, and attractiveness of neighborhood - anywhere in Manhattan for the same money.

This is my point folks. NSP is at least a 50% discount to the same thing in Manhattan....and it is just as far in terms of time and logistics from Union Square as most neighborhoods uptown.

This huge value is undeniable and fairly elementary to illustrate and identify. Prove me wrong, or at least show me any empirical data that would refute my observation.

what happened to you providing the evidence? now its up to us to debunk your fantasy?

so...from 86th & lex to union square is about 15 minutes assuming you miss the first subway. according to you, the commute is 25 minutes to penn station--then how long to union square?

It's a 7 minute walk to the Bedford St station. The L stops at 1st, 3rd, then Union Square. If you waited for the train for 10 minutes and each stop takes a full minute, it would be approximately 20 minutes - give or take to Union Square.

I timed it from Penn Station to Bedford with perfect synchronicity on the trains - not including the 7 minute walk - it took 25 minutes (Red express to 14th transfer to L @ 6th Ave)

Check my math in the field and tell me I'm wrong.....I did my homework.

so...how long from 96th & broadway to penn station? 15 minutes?

Who the hell calls the 2/3 the "Red express"

perry mason jr.

I love how West34 suggests I'm "saying" to "BUY". Wha? I couldn't care less if you buy or don't buy. What I am saying is the VALUE will not last long. The first building will be sold out soon. Both Edge and Toll are deliberately st falling to wait for demand and price stabilization to return. Interest rates are nearly certain to move up from here.

It's all about timing.

lets just see how Toll earnings come out next month and we'll see just how much stalling they'll be doing

oh yes, wise seer. tell us exactly when interest rates will be rising in this deflationary environment. buy now, yada, yada, yada.

and let's see how demand is when interest rates do rise. i guess the excellent toll bros. feel that stalling is a good idea even if the rates rise.

there's a pattern to this stuff. early buildings sell easily, close all. next, it gets harder for buildings to presell, but they sell most in early days after closings. etc. until it gets very, very difficult to hit 50% before first c of os. and then....it gets worse. that's what an inventory glut will do for you.

i think that i would personally have been interested in the town houses at Northside One i they had been available when i was looking although they were pricey when they first went on the market. at their current price, i could afford it. i like the idea of living on the water, and think that there's something inherently really nice about it. bought 3 years ago though in WB for the long haul, so not gonna do it now of course. i do agree that the Bedford L stop is great to have as your stop - i live about one minute from it and get anywhere in downtown/midtown in about 20-25 minutes. having lived further in (Park Slope) it's pretty great to have that freedom. obviously union square is super accessible.

"he still hasnt come up with his evidence. must still be confirming.
riddle me this batman..1st..why would i buy in NSP at these level when i could buy a comp in Manhattan for the same cash ? 2nd..if NSP still isnt fully sold, how well is NSP gonna do with the The Edge opening up along with it ? could certainly make for some compelling value then"

marco, well the evidence is there for anyone to see on this very site, not sure why it's such a contentious issue: there have been 119 closings, and what looks like a fair number of contracts still out/signed in the past few months that haven't closed as of yet. I'm not sure how anyone could argue that it's not mostly sold out; that said, it's not exactly a boon to the market since the building's been open for nearly 3 years now.

As for your otherpoints, it's pretty tough to find a comp in Manhattan for the "same price." Yes, you can find an apartment, but it most likely won't be new construction at the prices here, let's not fool ourselves. Now some people might value an established building over the new stuff, so that's more than fine obviously, but the market clearly values new stuff at a higher level. But the last point is dead-on - the supply on the waterfront is very high (even if it is all a very similar product), so it will clearly be a buyer's market for the next couple of years at least. Does that mean you shouldn't make it your home? That's a different question, of course.

this has been for sale at this price for over 3 months and its still not selling. That canary in the mine, well its been dead for months

samadams, the apartment in question is in contract. Btw, can you make any recommendations on a musket?

You're an angry little elf, aren't you?

When you time the L train commute, are you taking it at 8:15AM/PM when the rest of brooklyn is? I'm pretty sure you are not. Train after train rolls by, with no room to board in sight. When your crap new construction fill out, how many suits will fill the train? Whatever you think is the "best value" is complete crap. People see half completed buildings and price cuts from small developments in foreclosure all over the northside. Why would someone buy now when they can wait for the price cut? You're out of you league here papi......

Blowjob do you swallow?

positivecarry, 8:15am is fine usually. If you wait til 8:40, you might have to wait for a train to go by. And the evening commute is fine as well.

samadams, it really depends, but I actually kind of like your beer. Even if you are bitter.

bjw that was actually very funny

Thanks samadams, I don't mean to pick on you, this is all in good fun (though I really do like the beer). I'm just a bit confused as to why people are focusing on this building? It's the second tower that looks much riskier at this point, along with some of the larger unsold buildings not on the water (80 Met, etc).

I took the train for years. Hated it. Would never move back to a location with one subway option, no matter how much of a "deal" I'm offered on new constructon.

Mad: time to come clean on your affiliation with NSP. you are either a current owner or a broker. the threat of missing out on some big opportunity is classic broker bullcrap. i like this building but think w'burg prices have another 20-30% correction coming. those who bought in the past 3 years are going to be seriously underwater.

That apt is barely over 400 square feet. Looks like great big windows and good finishes, but come on...$399 for barely 400 feet. They will be very lucky to get anywhere near that.

That's a studio with a dividing wall, at least in my universe.

its not like half this board didn't call this....

Williamsburg,
Can I call you William or would you prefer Bill? OK, Bill it is.
Bill,
We have had this talk many times and no matter how many times we review it just doesn't sink in.
It's over.
Not a trial seperation or a little of lets see other people...OVER as in I never want to see you again. When we met...let's be honest...I was wasted. I dreamed that down deep I to too was a hippster. A bohemian wannabe of the first order. Why do you think I crossed the bridge in the first place? The talk of poetry and art coupled with your tattoos and, let's not forget the opiates, clouded my clear critical thinking so, I headed over with you.
Now, except for my headache, I only have one thought...how do I get the fuck out of here!!! Everyone here needs a shower and a fashion consult! Whatever I saw last night that got me here is plainly invisable in the light of day.
It over Bill! Don't call, don't e-mail, don't get in touch with my friends.
I never want to see you again.

mad0415,

Do you work for NSP?

What ever happened to buy now or be priced out forever?

O.K. folks, here's the number's I promised: 145 units sold or in contract. If you count the townhomes at the bottom, there are 176 units available. One NSP is 82.4% sold.

Prices are closing 40%+ below the original plans. Given the other benefits, if you are still waiting for a bottom here, you are more likely to miss it. This property simply is not 50% less valuable than truly similar property in Lincoln Square.

The Edge is nice property, but the developer paid too much for it and doesn't have the same scale to cover losses as Toll. This is why Toll will absorb the available demand not the Edge.

As for the Manhattan snobs, you are only one of two kind; truly very wealthy and justifiably snobbish, or phony wannabe's. I applaud the former -congratulations on your wealth and power. I abhor the later -man up and learn to call a spade a spade, or in your sad case a looser a looser!

What's the big whoop? The more amazing thing is the price that this unit sold for ($923 sq ft). This seems perfectly reasonable in comparison.

sold or in contract? i call foul. how many are sold and closed? don't give us this in contract bullshit.

columbia has a point. how many of the units went into contract before the price cut? how many of these buyers can obtain a favorable mortgage? how many of these buyers still have a job?

clombiacounty - 126 have sold. That leaves 19 pending closing. Banks are stingy these days. Neither them nor Uncle Sam are giving away free homes anymore.

Once again, Toll is using it's pricing leverage and the buyers are clearly responding. This is not a theory. This is not a hyposthesis. This is a fact.

what is your source for this information? based on your own math, the building is 71.5% sold.

I count the pending contracts! The glass is half full! 82.4%!

how can you count a pending contract as sold? completely different. and...still waiting on your source for the actual sales.

re: this "best value' argument. people can argue neighborhoods all they want and why one is better, etc. But if you want to go dueling scriptures, let's take the exercise.

I put forth the Portifino; 65 2nd Street 2505 in Pavonia/Newport.
Commute to Penn Station in under 25 minutes? even less here
Waterfront property with great views of Manahttan? definitely
Full service building with lots of amenities? yup

What do you get for $400,00? a 1 BR about TWICE the size.

You want to look down your nose at it because it's in NJ? I look down my nose at Williamburg, so we'd just be arguing taste (and you'd lose the NYC income tax).

Am I advocating buying at this project? No. It just took me all of 4 minutes to find. There's probably better examples in NJ. And Forrest Hills (pretty sure E train commute is 25 minutes from there to Penn?). And, and, and.......

My source is the developer.

I count the contracts because I believe if someone can get into a contract in this environment, they can close. Granted I am counting the chickens before they hatch but I am assessing a high probability of hatching.

25 recorded sales according to street easy since March this year. That's nearly 20% of total sales since March. Looks like Toll is pretty close to the market price now!

you count the contracts because you feel like it.

and...your source is the developer? so is your last name toll or do you just work there?

"or in your sad case a looser a looser!"

It's loser, loser.

http://loseloose.com/

that's funny as hell modern. I stand corrected.

columbiacounty - let's see how many "recorded sales" there are by the end of the year. I'll put it in writing for you; at least 145.

Mad, I do agree that aggressive price cuts are welcome. What do you see fair value is $psf in this bldg?

"I look down my nose at Williamburg, so we'd just be arguing taste (and you'd lose the NYC income tax)."

That's fine 30yrs, everybody's got their own tastes, but I think most people would choose Williamsburg over Pavonia for a plethora of reasons (better transportation - the PATH is not nearly as good, actual culture, restaurants, etc). And yes, you'd lose the NYC income tax, but of course gain the NJ real estate taxes.

"I count the contracts because I believe if someone can get into a contract in this environment, they can close. Granted I am counting the chickens before they hatch but I am assessing a high probability of hatching."

I wouldn't count them either, but it's not such a big deal, columbiacounty. This is not like pre-Lehman when contracts were signed in a completely different environment - people have a much better idea what they're getting into now, and if a contract is signed, there's a higher likelihood of closing. Look at 72 Berry (a short walk from here), all signed and closed in a matter of months. Regardless, 1 NSP is mostly sold out - I don't know why you're still insisting on this one. Can we turn to the far more interesting 2 NSP? That's where the trouble is.

Who would close at 1 NSP when they get a deal on what is sure to be a bloodbath at 2 NSP?

exactly. as i said before, it would be incredibly stupid to ignore the realities of 2NSP.

positivecarry, I wouldn't say it's a "sure bloodbath" (I know it's easy and tempting to use hyperbole in these times), but it is a major concern, and if I were interested, I would definitely wait it out at this point. I don't know Toll's thinking with the second tower, but looks like they're following the Edge's lead and holding prices steady until it's a more finished product. I have heard that Douglaston (developers of the Edge) have no underlying mortgage on that property, which, if true, would mean they'll resist price cuts even more. However, that's almost surely not the case with 2 NSP, so if/when the price cuts come there, it'll be interesting to see how the Edge responds.

rivas, in general ppsf is going to be affected by views here, but I would expect a lot to clear around $500-600.

what a comment on the times. this building appears to be either 70% or 80% sold; and now we see that as mostly sold out?

Agreed AR. To this housing market is going to be V shaped is to ignore history. The goldman bonus pool will not save a project like this. If they are smart enough to borrow $ from the gov at almost zero and make billions on it, do you really think the would be dumb enough to buy a 400 square foot studio for $1k a ft in frickin williamsburg?

Toll got into the NYC RE game way late. They're going to walk away licking their wounds. Anyone with half a brain that follows this market ca see this coming. The smart money was Golden West Financial, selling their company at the top of the market to Wachovia, which later imploded on the crap loans GDW originated. TOL is too diversifed across the country for NYC to bring them down, but it's not going to be profitable for YEARS. Who cares about 1 tower, when #2 is going to be the drag?

BJW, it will be interesting to try and find out what the construction costs are on tower #2. What are the chances it's going to sell for more than that?

What about this listing?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/471921-condo-4-north-5th-street-williamsburg-brooklyn

The asking price is higher than the amount at which the same unit on a higher floor (21D) closed back in June of this year.

columbiacounty, I'm sorry, would you qualify 70-80% as mostly not sold out then? That's a bit strange.

Milkman, people can ask whatever they want. What someone is willing to pay in this market is another story....

positivecarry, would definitely be interesting to see. We'd probably need someone with more of a construction/development background who knows Williamsburg reasonably well to get a good idea. Any takers?

Don't forget to add in the mortgage....

This rhetoric about "scale", and "absorb losses", etc. is illogical mumbo jumbo. The question is -- market value. If inventory in other buildings in Wmburg is out there, as in The Edge, it can impact this price. It's idiotic to discuss market price, and then ignore the market just because you can throw around words like "scale". (I think the place is still overpriced, and will go down, but that view has nothing to do with the point I am making here).

rivas77 - I think fair value $psf in One NSP is around $740 at this time - in terms of total sqft. In my opinion, I can't see it going too much lower for what they are offering.

jimstreeteasy - of course nobody can "ignore" the market, but with scale you can be much more competitive in the market. This is my point. This is what Toll has been doing all year. This is why they have closed 25 units since march and have another 19 in contract. If I'm a betting man, and I am, I will bet on Toll to fill their tower before Edge or the other inventory of bankrupt speculators throughout Williamsburg. Scale is a gift in a competitive environment!

You can take your "scale" and shove it up your.....

I'm going to be be nice and just say that I'll place bets on tower 2 closing under $500 a ft.

$740? Seriously? There are parts of prime manhatan closing under that.

"That's fine 30yrs, everybody's got their own tastes, but I think most people would choose Williamsburg over Pavonia for a plethora of reasons"

I think if you actually look at population statistics, you'll find how overwhelmingly white collar professionals who work in Manahtan are living in NJ new waterfront vs Queens new waterfront. By a HUGE margin.

if toll picks up my closing costs and 400 psf, im in

positivecarry - I mean chicken little, you are egregiously wrong. The world is not ending. The sky is not falling. We are nearing or at bottoms on these fine developments in Williamsburg.

The current $psf paid for recorded sales (+-70% of building) @ One NSP is posted @ $790. 20% of these sales have been recorded since March this year. Granted there MAY be some additional downward pressure on prices (I don't think much) but $700-$740 is the general range (avg for the building) barring the outliers. Obviously the $psf will vary from $600 range to $800 range depending on size and location of unit.

Did everyone here that? Let me repeat. Nearly 20% of current recorded sales have been recorded since March this year. If you count the 19 currently in contract (and as you know, I count em!) then 30% of all the sales in One NSP have occurred SINCE March of this year. Folks, these sales are at or near the current market prices!

I have asked anyone to provide, or even attempt to provide, empirical data that might refute my hypothesis that NSP is the best current value in Metro NYC. Nobody has done so, I suspect because nobody can.

If you think "parts of prime Manhattan" are such a great deal, go ahead and get yourself a nice walk up with monkey bars staring at a brick wall for a great deal....or pay literally twice as much with a significant tax for the same dam thing.

My money is on Toll and the exceptional value of these quality properties.

i'm not saying this is a healthy project, but $712 psf for new condo conversion on UWS, hardly a walk up with monkey bars. and Manhattan!!! mad0415, clearly you have some self interest here, and i would feel for you but for the fact that you're very misleading. the sky is not falling, but NYC real estate prices are and will be in a very big way.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/472597-condo-220-west-93rd-street-upper-west-side-new-york

"I think if you actually look at population statistics, you'll find how overwhelmingly white collar professionals who work in Manahtan are living in NJ new waterfront vs Queens new waterfront. By a HUGE margin."

I assume you're aware Williamsburg is not in Queens, right? Either way, it's a bit of a silly point when you consider how new this stuff is relatively, and how little product there is overall on the Brooklyn waterfront. I don't think there's much question which is more desirable, generally speaking.

I think 30 years is right, the professionals live in the NJ developments and we all know who lives in Williamsburg:

http://www.latfh.com/

aboutready - you can't seriously be suggesting that this 1926 prewar 2br 1bath on the 3rd floor on 93rd st with no pictures and an advertised monthly tax of over $300 is remotely a reasonable comp to a new 2br 2bath in NSP?

Talk about misleading. PALEASEEE give me a break. This posting is complete garbage and certainly not a legitimate comparison - not even remotely - to a similar priced property at NSP.

Like I said, if you care to live in %$hole just so you can say you live "on the upper west side" by all means have at it.

I repeat: referring to "scale" -- which you don't even define -- is illogical mumbo jumbo. The question is what is the market in general and, obviously, the "scale" of a particular development or developer is irrelevant, what matters is the quality of the project vs competitive products.

"We are nearing or at bottoms on these fine developments in Williamsburg." Again, by saying that we are at the bottom on THESE FINE DEVELOPMENTS you repeat the fallacy of somehow thinking one project can exist in isolation from the market. Mumbo jumbo.

I agree with mad that the comparables for this building would be a similar type building, new, luxury, with services, etc. and that the price comparison would have to take into account the favorable tax situation at nsp. That's obvious. But...given the large projects yet to be sorted out in Wmburg --including one RIGHT NEXT DOOR -- it seems silly to try to argue that this is a great buying opportunity. No one would argue there is much upside from here and there is considerable downside. How can you discuss a bottom with this much inventory yet to be placed????????????/

jim, that last post is dead-on. There's too much unknown to even think about declaring a bottom now. I don't think it'll happen now, but what if they go ahead with a 3rd tower? And the Edge goes ahead with another one as well? Nothing really good, I think.

no mad, are you dense? you said find something in the metro region that's as good a value. i'm pointing out that people can get deals at around $700 psf in manhattan NOW. what do you think will happen over the next year or so?

and again, you haven't countered my and many others' point that it doesn't really matter if they sell out NSP1 if the inventory doubles when NSP2 is completed. Tool.