Entire Security Deposit Taken - What can I do?

Whas it qwerty?

Have you talked to the management company? Sometimes people try to see if you're easy, and a phone call can convince them. Give them a day to cut a check for the difference before you call the TV station ombudsman, that sort of threat. If they are not receptive, small claims court is a cheap and easy way to get a judgment ( or you can call the local Fox or ABC station.)

Haven't spoken to them yet (just got the check today), but wanted to know what they can do. Are they not required to provide an itemization/receipts for the expenses? Given that they are a large /owner/management company, I think their own people prepare the apartment for subsequent tenants, so i doubt they go into any extra expense.

In the words of Malcom X, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

threaten to sue them every day until they return it. litigation costs more than $2500.

Which management company? It can be useful to know for others.

God these management companies are desperate.

Take them to small claims court. They will most likely balk and try to negotiate a more reasonable sum.

I would be curious to see how they itemized the expenses though...

Bump...

>>Take them to small claims court. They will most likely balk and try to negotiate a more reasonable sum.<<

Not necessarily. They've got the money, they're keeping it presumably to cover damage repair costs, and it's now incumbent upon YOU to prove you deserve it back. They know this.

Did you take photos of the apartment's condition when you moved out? If not, there's nothing to stop these guys from successfully claiming the damages to the apartment cost $2400 to repair. Unless you can prove otherwise, you may be out of luck.

Before starting to beat the war drums, I'd put in a friendly call to the mgmt company to inquire. Back it up with a letter, again, avoiding being accusatory (for now). See what their response is before making threats of legal action.

By the way. They haven't painted the apartment for the entire time I was there (6 years). That maneas that they can't deduct anything for repainting, right?

Nearly a decade ago, I rented a 3-bedroom with 2 friends of mine and 2 weeks before we moved out (after 4+ years in the apartment), the awful fridge died.

We called the super and the management company to tell them we needed a new fridge. They did nothing.

Then we found out they too $600 out of the deposit to cover the cost of a new fridge! My one roommate filed a small claims suit against them and told them about it - they immediately gave us back the $600.

Squid does make some valid points - if you go to small claims court, you are going to have to prove that you aren't responsible for whatever they are charging you for and that it was normal wear and tear. But I get the feeling that most judges, once told that the apartment hasn't been painted in 6 years (or probably kept up in any other fashion by the management company) and that you DIDN'T receive an itemized list of costs will probably see exactly what they are trying to do to you: fleece you of $2400 hoping that you won't put up a fight.

>>By the way. They haven't painted the apartment for the entire time I was there (6 years). That maneas that they can't deduct anything for repainting, right?<<

That's not correct. Any security deposit deduction would be for repair work required after your departure for damages caused by you. There would be no deduction for maintenance (painting, repairs) done during your lease period. Whether or not they painted the apartment during your lease is irrelevant.

One note about repainting--you need to ask the landlord to do it. He won't come to you. If you ask and he stalls or refuses outright, that's an issue. However, if you never requested a new paint job during your six years (and lots of people don't, as it can be a real pain in the ass) then that was your choice and won't reflect negatively on the landlord.

I disagree with Squid. The money is yours and must be kept in a special interest-bearing account until they can justify why they withheld it. Right now, they have no story. You can honestly sign a complaint that says they gave no reason whatsoever for unlawfully withholding $2400 from you. Talk to them and they will concoct a reason. It costs $20 and a little time to file in Small Claims court. Here is a link to the forms:

http://www.courts.state.ny.us/courts/nyc/smallclaims/forms.shtml

If you have questions, there is a Help Center with volunteer lawyers to help you in Room 104 in 111 Centre Street (each borough has at least one):
http://www.courts.state.ny.us/courts/nyc/smallclaims/vlpselfrep.shtml

[StreetEasy told me there were too many links, so I will post some other Small Claims Info separately]

Write out your statement in a large legible font in advance and attach it to the form. That will save you some time when you get there and make for a better quality story for the judge to read. I would mention that they did not paint the apartment in six years. Did the check come with a cover letter? Attach a copy of the letter because that plants the seed of doubt about their story (see below). You will want to bring your lease and any other evidence with you to Court (original and at least 2 copies – never give your original to anyone, not even the Judge unless expressly ordered. Everybody loses stuff, even up on that bench), but don't attach everything to the complaint, too bulky and likely to get separated anyway.

I agree with Memito except on one point: You have to show that they did not give you back your deposit. They have to prove damage that justified keeping it. The burden is on them. That's why not giving you a reason now is significant. If there were a reason, repair bills etc., why couldn't they produce them? Their silence now supports the inference that what they say after a lawsuit is filed is self-serving, if not outright fabrication. It will help if you did take photos before you left (or any recent photos of the apartment), but your testimony is also evidence of the condition of the apartment.

Make sure you have the correct legal name of the building owner as well as the management company. You want to name both in the suit. (I'm not sure if there's an additional fee for this, but it's worth it). Did you receive interest payments annually? If not, sue for that. Was your apartment rent-stabilized? You may be entitled to treble damages (which will be over the $5K Small Claims Court limit, but you're probably still better off in SCC).

After you file, you can call them to negotiate, or they may call you. Although it's more time-consuming, consider faxing or e-mailing your communications. It's more difficult to have someone "misremember" what you said and you can take your time and be more careful. You might get the "all just a misunderstanding" or they may have specific deductions they are going to claim. Ask them to send you a copy of any documentation and accounting. This should not be a long conversation and you should not answer any questions; they will try to use your statements as an admission against you. Tell them you put everything you have to say in writing in the complaint. You want to know why they didn't return all your money and when they will do so. If they offer to send you the $2400, tell them you will drop the suit when the check clears. If they offer some compromise amount, you have to decide if it's enough to drop the suit. You will also get the chance to negotiate when you go to Court, before the Judge will hear the case.

Post again to let us know what happened.

If you really don't want to go to Court, The New York State Attorney General's Office – 120 Broadway, 3rd Floor, New York, New York, 10271, (212) 416-8000 – offers a free mediation service in lieu of litigation. I think this is a weak alternative because it doesn't pressure them the way a court date does.

There's a pdf Guide to Small Claims Court you can download:
http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/nyc/smallclaims/pdfs/smallclaims.pdf
and for completeness, a guide to trying your case:
http://www.nycourts.gov/publications/GuideforProSes.pdf

Thanks for all the the replies and es10022 for your suggestions!

Squid -- I would assume that it is their burden to prove that they went through these expenses (produce receipts etc.) before I have to prove a negative, right? And as for painting, they are required by law I think to paint every three years, which means that they would have had to paint it x2 and that they can't charge me for painting the apartment.

Small claims court - I took Related there when they tried to withhold part of my deposit because they claimed that my cats had peed on it.

They didn't. They didn't even show at the small claims hearing. Then they wouldn't pay so I threatened to have the building seized by the sheriff (yes, NYC does have a sheriff) and auctioned. I got a quick check back and an apology.

"They didn't even show" = Related, not my cats!

You have a lot of problems with your landlords. In 27 months will we hear about a new fight with the Ellington?

let me guess... Related?

There are a couple of things going on here.

First of all, everyone has a different idea about what constitutes "decent condition" upon vacating an apartment. People who live like pigs have no problem with leaving a filthy stove and oven, years-old caked-on grease splatters on the backsplash, years of cigarette tar on the walls and ceilings, years' worth of dust and grime accumulation on the baseboards and other woodwork, and windows that are absolutely filthy (and I'm not just talking about the glass). Hell, I've seen million-dollar apartments for sale that are actually shown in this condition!

Second, you have management companies that are looking for the slightest reason to keep your security deposit.

Aside from fresh paint, if the management company had to contract out any repairs and a cleaning crew, they absolutely can keep whatever portion of your security deposit it cost for the service.

The problem is, many people don't realize how expensive repair and cleaning crews are these days. The window-scrubbing, floor scrubbing, woodwork wiping, and kitchen deep-clean that YOU should have done before moving out could easily run up to $1500. And what, you think holes in the walls are repaired for free? A hole in the wall is a hole in the wall, drilled or not. It still requires the same work to cover over.

That said, your only cost-effective way to get your security deposit back will be to take them to small claims court. You'll blow about $100 and an entire evening, but if you win, it'll be worth it.

But expect a fight. If you're lucky, you'll probably get $1000 back.

Good luck.

>>And as for painting, they are required by law I think to paint every three years, which means that they would have had to paint it x2 and that they can't charge me for painting the apartment.<<

Painting (or other necessary repair work) done during your tenancy is NOT applicable where the security deposit is concerned. Whether or not the landlord painted your apartment during your lease has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not you receive your deposit back in its entirety.

As Matt aptly points out, there is often considerably more work necessary to bring an apartment back to move-in condition than people think. That said, there also needs to be some leeway allowed for normal wear and tear. A decent landlord won't withhold security money for the standard repaint and cleaning required to re-rent the unit. But he might withhold some funds if, say, the floor needs to be refinished because of deep scratches, or if you painted the walls a dark color that needs extra work to cover.

Re: the painting-every-three-years issue--remember that in order to have your landlord do the required-by-law repainting you need to request it. The landlord won't come to you. If you do not request a repaint (and many tenants choose not to, as it can be a major pain in the ass), then that's your decision and won't reflect negatively on the landlord. If you make requests for a repaint and the landlord stalls or refuses outright, that's a different story.