rent stabilized buy outs

Are you thinking of buying a townhouse with RS tenants? If so, it depends on: what the tenant is paying, how close to SCRIE status, where the tenant is located in the building, and if you want to gamble with the landlord eviction-occupancy litigation.

10023 what does it mean "how close to scrie status" never heard this term b4 thanks for any info

could one make a business of: doing your homework..predicting a building on a short leash...get a stabilized apt, get a buyout....rent something else and repeat every 5 years or so???

An RS tenant is protected from rent increases once he/she reaches the age of 62 AND is protected from eviction by owner occupancy - makes any buyout more $$.

Ditto disability.

And now there is a NYS bill in the works that will make owner-occupancy eviction impossible.

The easiest buyouts - when an RS tenant is already very close to market rent. I know of a TH where the tenants were already paying $1500 for RS studios, LL offered 20k to leave, and they did.

Think about it - if tenant is paying $1k for a 1-bedroom TH apt on the UWS, is single, what kind of incentive would you or anyone need to leave that situation? Right now, owner occupancy eviction is possible but it takes time & $ assuming you can find a halfway-competent lawyer. And in the interim, this bill might pass...

Yeah, P09.

NYC10023: I think nina is a tenant looking to extort the owner. Maybe the folks at the Working Family party can help.

I realized that when I re-read her post. Depends on how close to market rent she is. As I said, I know people who were offered 20k+ to vacate already-close-to market rent studios on UWS. They took the offer. If she is a situation when she's paying 1k for a 1-bedroom on the UWS, I'd hang my hat out for a lot more.

So, if Nina, you're 61.5, don't sweat it. LL can't do anything.

why encourage this?

P09: this was very common in the past, esp. in the era before mass co-op conversions. People moving in the hopes of getting insider prices. Now, not so much. Happened to a friend last year (buyout after living there for a year - so free rent).

Dwell: people aren't stupid (and btw, where have you been?) One way or the other, they'll figure it out.

I also have cautionary tales the other way. I know LLs who used the owner-occupancy law in a completely legitimate fashion. Their RS tenants were sold a fairy tale by some greedy RE lawyers, when there was no way they would prevail, given the facts.

NYC10023,

Hey hun, how are ya doing? Didn't come to Shaffer City cuz I busted my knee, couldn't walk.

I once offered a T $500,000 (yes, half a mil) to vacate a 1 bedroom & they refused; they countered at $2 mill. disgusting.

I hear you. But there are also tenants (RS) who get burned by thinking LLs never prevail (esp. if they are patient, legit and dot all i's and t's).

no i am not a tenent but i after reading this i wish i was....

Yes, I've had both good & bad buyouts. There's good Ls & Ts & bad ones. I'm an L, but, I've represented Ts in court; I don't like to see bad Ls take advantage of good Ts. Anyway, hope you're feeling well & hope to see y'all at the next shindig.

So, nina, what's yer gig? why the question?

OK, I can't spell either, but "tenent"? I'm out.

TENANT is that ok? lol

Wee usuually capitolise 'I" as well

My "gig" is to get info for an elderly relative in his 80's whos L wants him out of his UWS apt I am not familiar w RS and how it works so I wanted to get some info and other peoples perspectives if its even worth trying to get a buy out or just leave not deal with the head ache and get a new place

He's not RS if he's elderly - he's a SCRIE tenant, and yes, it's worth a LOT to the LL.

1) What has the LL been doing with vacancies? Re-renting at market?
2) What is the diff. between market & RS rate?
3) How much out of pocket will your rel. be if he moves to a market-rate place?

Not to mention the fact that your relative obviously would have family that could conceivably move in with him and enjoy RS benefits for another generation.

i'm not fond of capitols.

SCRIE protects only very low-income senior citizens from rent increases -- $20K or so annual income. And, incidentally, the tenant remains RS, and the landlord continues to get whatever rent is coming to him under RS increases ... the City makes up the difference.

nina15, whether it's worth getting a buyout depends on his social connections where he is, where he'll be able to go, and what his social connections will be when he gets there. Bear in mind that buyouts are taxable as income, and will impact any income-qualified programs that he participates in (including, I believe, Social Security). Additionally, if you use a lawyer or other negotiator, a chunk of the proceeds will go bye-bye.

That doesn't mean it's not worthwhile, just that what your relative needs to move on and what your LL is willing to pay might be nowhere near alignment.

Did this LL buy the building recently? Is there an underlying issue -- either with your relative or with the LL -- that needs to be cleaned up?

I dont think he is SCRIE hes lived there forever its a Mitchell Lama building maybe that is SCRIE but I am really not sure what all these terms mean I will have to do more reserch anyhow his spouse recently passed away he is not in good health either and hos apt is 2 bedroom one of the few in the building...even though its all people mostly his age and income lately they have been renting to much higher income seniors I doubt due to his age that the L would even go for a buyout probablly just figures he will pass away but I think its wrong trying to get rid of someone so old...

M-L is a whole different can of worms. They're not generally rent-stabilized. His building no doubt has a tenants' association that would be a good starting point.

To get useful advice here, it would be best to post the name or address of his building -- they usually have hundreds of residents (or more), so you wouldn't be revealing his identity.

Barring that, post whether it is indeed a rental and not a "Mitchell-Lama coop" (are there references to shareholders or cooperators on anything?); whether the LL bought out of that program, and if so was there a Section 8 provision?; whether the building is specifically for senior citizens or for all ages; whether it's Atria; and probably lots of other relevant facts.

Like what makes you think LL wants him out? And do you?

Thanks alen that is useful info I dont know the details I will have to find out this is all very foreign to me but I do know it is a rental not a co op and everyone is elderly whenever I go visit so I think it is only mitchell lama for seniors

Mitchell-Lama buildings are referred to as "Naturally Occurring Retirement Communities" because they all move in in the 1950s or 60s at around the same age, and nobody leaves. Is EVERYONE elderly, or just much more than average?

What makes you think the LL wants him out?

No everyone is I think there is an actual age you must be to live there. As far as LL always doing stuff wanting him to move to smaller apt, coming up w bogus excuses to go to court which never amounts to anything other then a major annoyance to an elderly man who now prefers to move, overcharging rent etc.

One time LL mentioned to my relative "you can sell your lease" but that does not sound right to me...

IMO, best thing for you is to consult a landlord-tenant attorney, especially if the LL is "always doing stuff wanting him to move to smaller apt, coming up w bogus excuses to go to court which never amounts to anything other then a major annoyance to an elderly man who now prefers to move, overcharging rent etc." Sounds like possible harassment. The Mitchell-Lama issue adds another wrinkle because it's not just a simple rental building.

First you need to figure out who is meant by "Landlord" ... if it's a building staff member, or even a managing agent, it could be more a matter of breezy conversation rooted in ignorance. The building's tenant association might be the best place to start (after finding out from your relative exactly who said what, and what that person's role is).

Again, it would really help if you posted the name of the building. I'm not aware of any senior citizen Mitchell-Lama rental, and if one went market-rate ("private"), I'd be surprised not to have heard about it.

Thanks again guys for all your advice...I may be completly wrong maybe this isnt the type of building where a buyout is even possible but thats what the management company when I say LL mentioned...The building is called hargrave apartments 111 w71

I live very close to your relative. I don't know the ins and outs of your relative's building, but I know that seniors hang out in the community center downstairs.

Nina: you need to talk to the management to sort out the situation, doesn't sound right to me.

Nina: I'm not sure why your relative is being harassed - this doesn't sound like an RC/RS/SCRIE situation to me, sounds like a subsidized senior home.

http://www.projectfind.org/hargrave_house.html

It's not entirely clear, but it seems that this was a "single-room occupancy" [that means crime-ridden flophouse] until 1974, when Project FIND (the current nonprofit operator) turned it into housing for senior citizens. So it's possible that your relative predates that conversion, and might be rent-stabilized or something similar.

I think the possibility of being bought out by a nonprofit is near zero, but who knows?

Your best bet is to talk to your relative and get at the heart of the matter (what building staff he talked to, and how the conversation went / escalated), then talk to the onsite social worker. Maybe your relative is being mistreated, maybe he's "acting out" or having social problems, or maybe he's showing symptoms of medical problems.

Bear in mind that for people that age, separation from the neighbors and friends they've known a long time can be a harsh thing.

Nina,

call the Legal Aid office which is closest to the building & speak to an attorney. No T should be harassed, but it's particularly disgusting when this occurs in a ML, SRO, SC building. Good Luck.