So I need some help here guys, here's my situation, and maybe you can let me know what my options are. I realize that streeteasy.com is for more of the big fish (not much in my price range here), but I need some help and you guys seem to be a good source of information. Sorry if this seems so small-potatoes but I need some real advice on what I can expect given the circumstances. Current... [more]
So I need some help here guys, here's my situation, and maybe you can let me know what my options are.
I realize that streeteasy.com is for more of the big fish (not much in my price range here), but I need some help and you guys seem to be a good source of information. Sorry if this seems so small-potatoes but I need some real advice on what I can expect given the circumstances.
Current situation: paying 2500 a month for a 550sf 3BR in South Park Slope. It's a rip-off now and I know it. The realtor (Rapid Realty) and is offering to lower the rent to resign. I'm sick of this place, the heat sucks and is not included in the rent making winter-time heating cold and costly.
What I'd love to do is move out with one of my roommates and get a two-bedroom for around 1600 somewhere. Here's the catch though. I only have a part-time job and student loans to support myself. I don't have enough income for the entire apartment. My roommate is unemployed, and his dad refuses to be a guarantor. I could probably convince my dad to be a guarantor and his income would be enough although his credit is bad. I would really rather not do that though. I have a good FICO (720+). Plus if it's worth anything I'm going to be graduating with an MA in Computer Science in June. I realize it's not like being a doctor or something, but it's as solid as an employment guarantee as you can get in this economy.
But is a proof of income ALWAYS required? Would there be a way to work this out?
So I'm asking you guys, what are our options? Under what circumstances could we get around the proof of income requirement if my roommate can't find a job by then? I had a few ideas.
A) Stay in the same apartment. I REALLY don't want to do this. I hate this place and want something bigger with only one other roommate.
B) Stay with Rapid Realty and explain the situation hoping they'll want to keep us as good tenants.
C) Put out an ad on craigslist describing the situation. Surely someone out there would be desperate to rent something to us.
D) Try to find a new place and offer a reference to previous rental history (two years in NYC and no missed payments, etc), and offer another month's rent. I can pay three months rent up front for an apartment that costs 1600. Ideally this would be the best way to do it. I have no problem paying first, last, and security. Most ads these days that I see will only require first and security.
But yeah this is all I can think of at the moment. I you can let me know what my options are, or what I can expect, please let me know, because this is beginning to worry me. I'm hoping I'll be able to work something out as my lease ends on January 1st.
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Response by The_President
about 16 years ago
Posts: 2412
Member since: Jun 2009
why don't you ditch your roomate and get a studio on your own?
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Response by evnyc
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1844
Member since: Aug 2008
Undoubtedly, you're in a tough spot. Proof of income is almost always required, even from smaller landlords. I would be extremely wary of a renter whose income is not stable, especially if the guarantor's credit is bad - and I'm not a landlord. My advice would be to try and find a sublet on Craigslist.
You will not find a place by posting an ad on craigslist similar to what you have posted here. People post RE ads and sit back and wait for people to respond; you don't have that luxury, so be proactive. You are going to have to go to do a lot of emailing and reaching out to other students and tapping your networks. Surely someone has lost a job and is moving back to somewhere and needs a subletter.
On another note, you *really* don't want to get into the position of guaranteeing your friend's portion; he can trash your credit in a heartbeat, even if he doesn't intend to, simply by walking away and sticking you with the entire rent bill. If he wants to live with you he needs to find a job immediately or get pops to pony up.
In any event, I would not stay with Rapid Realty if any other acceptable option presents itself. You sound quite miserable there, and if you're graduating into this economy you're going to need a place you at least don't hate, because the job market is horrible right now.
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Response by evnyc
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1844
Member since: Aug 2008
That all came off terribly negative. I truly mean: good luck, get creative and get out of there! And congratulations on your new degree.
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Response by maly
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1377
Member since: Jan 2009
I would say B or A first: call your LL and explain you would rather
move to a 2 br for no more than $1,600, because your current apt costs a fortune to heat. They will either offer a 2 br or reduce your current rent.
Forget about your other options, save your money and efforts to finish your MA. In one year, you'll hopefully have an income, and so will your roommate. You will be more attractive to a LL and less likely to be on the hook for your roommate's bill.
I seriously ask you: your roommate is unemployed, and his own dad won't be his guarantor. Why would you even consider putting all your cash to put him up?
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Response by jmallen2928
about 16 years ago
Posts: 3
Member since: Sep 2009
As far as my roommate is concerned, I do it because he's my friend, and honestly he just needs someone to give him a break. I don't know if all of you have been there before, but I have and it's not easy. He does pay his rent, and I'm pretty confident he'll be able to do so in the future. I don't think I'm dealing with that much risk here. If I thought it were too risky I'd say otherwise. And worst case scenario? He can move out and I get a subletter? I don't know it doesn't seem too bad. But honestly if he can't get his finances right then yeah I'd have to get a studio or find someone else to live with. At least now I know that C and D are not options. The way I see it now, either he'll have to get a job, or he'll need a cosigner. I'll let him know that. But imagining he does get a job between now and January, will that be enough for his part of the equation?
Here's another question though. In my current job, I probably will have made 15k this year. Clearly this isn't enough for rent because it's part-time. Will my student loans (20k a year) be counted as "income" for those purposes too? If that is NOT the case then there's no guarantee I can get a studio either. My dad is a physician, so his income is not a problem, but his credit is bad due to having intentionally defaulted on some credit card debt (he got some bad financial advice).
Clearly resigning would possibly be easiest. They aren't going to ask for income verification again (they didn't last time we resigned), but my nerves are frayed in this place, I don't know if I can stand another second. I would really only be happy here if we could ditch the last roommate but even then I don't know if I'd like that. I don't have a problem with Rapid Realty in theory. The problem is that the apartment is too small and cold. But they are generally very attentive to problems. I would be happy with another place through them, and I will talk to the lady tomorrow.
But should I tell her the situation? We've been good tenants for 2 years, do you think they'll help me out? Or will this screw me over and prevent me from even being able to resign my current lease without problems?
Anyway, thanks a lot for the advice here folks. It's really helping me figure out what my options are
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Response by maly
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1377
Member since: Jan 2009
Don't overload your landlord with too much information (such as, one of my roommate lost his job, and the other is a douchebag); keep all the extraneous noise to a minimum. She's not your mom or your therapist, so keep it brief, pleasant and relevant to what she can do. Here is sample conversation:
- hi, this is Joe from 2B, I am calling about our lease renewal.
- yeah? What about it?
- (cheerful) our lease expires in January, and I was wondering if I you have a 2 bedroo
available. Jim and I are looking to downsize, and we can only afford $1,600.
- what about the other guy?
- not sure yet, I'm calling to check what's available. I like you guys, but the apartment is hard to heat and it is costing us a fortune.
- ok, let me check and call me back on Wednesday.
This is the way, no extra info, and a not-too-subtle request to lower your rent. Then you wait and see what checks.
Finally, on the subject of your friend, if you want to help him and absolutely have to move, sublet a studio within your income parameter and let him crash on your couch.
If you stretch your finances to the breaking point to help him, you will resent him.
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Response by jmallen2928
about 16 years ago
Posts: 3
Member since: Sep 2009
Good ideas, maly, I'll heed your advice.
But do you know if my loans will count as income? I mean that would be like 35k a year which ought to be enough to get me into a studio. I could ask my dad to be guarantor but I'd rather not, and due to his bad credit I'm not sure it'd be enough.
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Response by evnyc
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1844
Member since: Aug 2008
"And worst case scenario? He can move out and I get a subletter?"
In this economy you CANNOT count on getting a subletter that you're willing to live with. So the worst case scenario is this: your friend abandons you for the hinterlands, sticks you with the rent bill, and your friendship is ruined forever. It happens a lot. As a compromise, rent a one-bedroom and offer your friend the living room until he gets a new job. That is a break, and one that doesn't threaten your friendship as directly.
Your loans probably count as income, but they're also likely to count as debt. Your debt to income ratio isn't going to look good from that perspective.
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Response by drdrd
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1905
Member since: Apr 2007
Definitely don't share this info with your landlord; this is their business & they do not have your best interests at heart - that's just the way it is. I'd say that Rapid Realty is not a good LL because the unit is cold & it costs a fortune to heat; I'd assume that any of their units has the same awful situation. I suggest that you look for the cheapest, warmest single you can find for you & your buddy & make do with that. You don't want to have to pay his share of housing expenses & should something happen with him, he could take you down. Find someplace that you can afford on your own & then share with him. Also, don't assume that you'll find a fabulous job right after you graduate. Hopefully you will but hope for the best & prepare for the worst. Be fiercely optimistic but financially prudent; this economy is in bad shape & nobody knows what tomorrow brings. Bless you for being a good friend but be wise & watch your pennies & best of luck to you.
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Response by hotproperty
about 16 years ago
Posts: 277
Member since: Nov 2008
Wait - a 550 sq ft 3 bedroom? How could a 3bd be only 550 sq ft? Also, how do you intentionally default on credit card debt?
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Response by evnyc
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1844
Member since: Aug 2008
hotproperty, not sure how one defaults on credit card debt. I guess you just stop paying minimums? Happily not something I'm familiar with.
Agree - a 3-br under 100 sf is ludicrous. However, I lived in a 600 sf 3-br, so it is theoretically possible. My br was 8x7. The dining area was even smaller but had been carved off into a "bedroom" as had a walk-in closet that had a window. In 1920 when the building had been constructed it was a 1-bedroom. This is one other consequence of the RE bubble.
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Response by evnyc
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1844
Member since: Aug 2008
oh, goodness. Typo CITY. "a 3-br under 100 sf is ludicrous" - 1000 - missing a zero.
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Response by NYCMatt
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009
"Here's another question though. In my current job, I probably will have made 15k this year. Clearly this isn't enough for rent because it's part-time. Will my student loans (20k a year) be counted as "income" for those purposes too? If that is NOT the case then there's no guarantee I can get a studio either. My dad is a physician, so his income is not a problem, but his credit is bad due to having intentionally defaulted on some credit card debt (he got some bad financial advice)."
No, your student loans will not be counted as "income", because they're earmarked for your education.
At $15,000/year, using the standard 40x calculation for affordability, the most you could afford would be an apartment for $375/month.
And forget about using your father as a guarantor. Regardless of his job or his income, if his credit is shot, he's not a good credit risk.
I suggest you either stay put and look for another roommate, or move out of this place and move into the apartment of someone else who's looking for a roommate.
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Response by glamma
about 16 years ago
Posts: 830
Member since: Jun 2009
you could look for a long-term sublet..
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Response by EZrenter
about 16 years ago
Posts: 106
Member since: Apr 2009
You mention you are as student. I'm wondering why you came here and not use the housing resources found on your campus where there are many students in your boat and many landlords accepting student situations up front.
why don't you ditch your roomate and get a studio on your own?
Undoubtedly, you're in a tough spot. Proof of income is almost always required, even from smaller landlords. I would be extremely wary of a renter whose income is not stable, especially if the guarantor's credit is bad - and I'm not a landlord. My advice would be to try and find a sublet on Craigslist.
You will not find a place by posting an ad on craigslist similar to what you have posted here. People post RE ads and sit back and wait for people to respond; you don't have that luxury, so be proactive. You are going to have to go to do a lot of emailing and reaching out to other students and tapping your networks. Surely someone has lost a job and is moving back to somewhere and needs a subletter.
On another note, you *really* don't want to get into the position of guaranteeing your friend's portion; he can trash your credit in a heartbeat, even if he doesn't intend to, simply by walking away and sticking you with the entire rent bill. If he wants to live with you he needs to find a job immediately or get pops to pony up.
In any event, I would not stay with Rapid Realty if any other acceptable option presents itself. You sound quite miserable there, and if you're graduating into this economy you're going to need a place you at least don't hate, because the job market is horrible right now.
That all came off terribly negative. I truly mean: good luck, get creative and get out of there! And congratulations on your new degree.
I would say B or A first: call your LL and explain you would rather
move to a 2 br for no more than $1,600, because your current apt costs a fortune to heat. They will either offer a 2 br or reduce your current rent.
Forget about your other options, save your money and efforts to finish your MA. In one year, you'll hopefully have an income, and so will your roommate. You will be more attractive to a LL and less likely to be on the hook for your roommate's bill.
I seriously ask you: your roommate is unemployed, and his own dad won't be his guarantor. Why would you even consider putting all your cash to put him up?
As far as my roommate is concerned, I do it because he's my friend, and honestly he just needs someone to give him a break. I don't know if all of you have been there before, but I have and it's not easy. He does pay his rent, and I'm pretty confident he'll be able to do so in the future. I don't think I'm dealing with that much risk here. If I thought it were too risky I'd say otherwise. And worst case scenario? He can move out and I get a subletter? I don't know it doesn't seem too bad. But honestly if he can't get his finances right then yeah I'd have to get a studio or find someone else to live with. At least now I know that C and D are not options. The way I see it now, either he'll have to get a job, or he'll need a cosigner. I'll let him know that. But imagining he does get a job between now and January, will that be enough for his part of the equation?
Here's another question though. In my current job, I probably will have made 15k this year. Clearly this isn't enough for rent because it's part-time. Will my student loans (20k a year) be counted as "income" for those purposes too? If that is NOT the case then there's no guarantee I can get a studio either. My dad is a physician, so his income is not a problem, but his credit is bad due to having intentionally defaulted on some credit card debt (he got some bad financial advice).
Clearly resigning would possibly be easiest. They aren't going to ask for income verification again (they didn't last time we resigned), but my nerves are frayed in this place, I don't know if I can stand another second. I would really only be happy here if we could ditch the last roommate but even then I don't know if I'd like that. I don't have a problem with Rapid Realty in theory. The problem is that the apartment is too small and cold. But they are generally very attentive to problems. I would be happy with another place through them, and I will talk to the lady tomorrow.
But should I tell her the situation? We've been good tenants for 2 years, do you think they'll help me out? Or will this screw me over and prevent me from even being able to resign my current lease without problems?
Anyway, thanks a lot for the advice here folks. It's really helping me figure out what my options are
Don't overload your landlord with too much information (such as, one of my roommate lost his job, and the other is a douchebag); keep all the extraneous noise to a minimum. She's not your mom or your therapist, so keep it brief, pleasant and relevant to what she can do. Here is sample conversation:
- hi, this is Joe from 2B, I am calling about our lease renewal.
- yeah? What about it?
- (cheerful) our lease expires in January, and I was wondering if I you have a 2 bedroo
available. Jim and I are looking to downsize, and we can only afford $1,600.
- what about the other guy?
- not sure yet, I'm calling to check what's available. I like you guys, but the apartment is hard to heat and it is costing us a fortune.
- ok, let me check and call me back on Wednesday.
This is the way, no extra info, and a not-too-subtle request to lower your rent. Then you wait and see what checks.
Finally, on the subject of your friend, if you want to help him and absolutely have to move, sublet a studio within your income parameter and let him crash on your couch.
If you stretch your finances to the breaking point to help him, you will resent him.
Good ideas, maly, I'll heed your advice.
But do you know if my loans will count as income? I mean that would be like 35k a year which ought to be enough to get me into a studio. I could ask my dad to be guarantor but I'd rather not, and due to his bad credit I'm not sure it'd be enough.
"And worst case scenario? He can move out and I get a subletter?"
In this economy you CANNOT count on getting a subletter that you're willing to live with. So the worst case scenario is this: your friend abandons you for the hinterlands, sticks you with the rent bill, and your friendship is ruined forever. It happens a lot. As a compromise, rent a one-bedroom and offer your friend the living room until he gets a new job. That is a break, and one that doesn't threaten your friendship as directly.
Your loans probably count as income, but they're also likely to count as debt. Your debt to income ratio isn't going to look good from that perspective.
Definitely don't share this info with your landlord; this is their business & they do not have your best interests at heart - that's just the way it is. I'd say that Rapid Realty is not a good LL because the unit is cold & it costs a fortune to heat; I'd assume that any of their units has the same awful situation. I suggest that you look for the cheapest, warmest single you can find for you & your buddy & make do with that. You don't want to have to pay his share of housing expenses & should something happen with him, he could take you down. Find someplace that you can afford on your own & then share with him. Also, don't assume that you'll find a fabulous job right after you graduate. Hopefully you will but hope for the best & prepare for the worst. Be fiercely optimistic but financially prudent; this economy is in bad shape & nobody knows what tomorrow brings. Bless you for being a good friend but be wise & watch your pennies & best of luck to you.
Wait - a 550 sq ft 3 bedroom? How could a 3bd be only 550 sq ft? Also, how do you intentionally default on credit card debt?
hotproperty, not sure how one defaults on credit card debt. I guess you just stop paying minimums? Happily not something I'm familiar with.
Agree - a 3-br under 100 sf is ludicrous. However, I lived in a 600 sf 3-br, so it is theoretically possible. My br was 8x7. The dining area was even smaller but had been carved off into a "bedroom" as had a walk-in closet that had a window. In 1920 when the building had been constructed it was a 1-bedroom. This is one other consequence of the RE bubble.
oh, goodness. Typo CITY. "a 3-br under 100 sf is ludicrous" - 1000 - missing a zero.
"Here's another question though. In my current job, I probably will have made 15k this year. Clearly this isn't enough for rent because it's part-time. Will my student loans (20k a year) be counted as "income" for those purposes too? If that is NOT the case then there's no guarantee I can get a studio either. My dad is a physician, so his income is not a problem, but his credit is bad due to having intentionally defaulted on some credit card debt (he got some bad financial advice)."
No, your student loans will not be counted as "income", because they're earmarked for your education.
At $15,000/year, using the standard 40x calculation for affordability, the most you could afford would be an apartment for $375/month.
And forget about using your father as a guarantor. Regardless of his job or his income, if his credit is shot, he's not a good credit risk.
I suggest you either stay put and look for another roommate, or move out of this place and move into the apartment of someone else who's looking for a roommate.
you could look for a long-term sublet..
You mention you are as student. I'm wondering why you came here and not use the housing resources found on your campus where there are many students in your boat and many landlords accepting student situations up front.