market movement with comps, brooklyn

It's good to see prices getting back to the range where mere mortals might be able to buy.

Speaking of Brooklyn: I just did a search in Park Slope for everything that had closed above $800K in the last 60 days. Of all the closings that had associated listings, fully half had closed at or above ask. What do people think is going on here? Are Brooklyn sellers more realistic to begin with, or is this neighborhood just proving remarkably resilient?

Thanks for starting this one AR ..and I greatly appreciate these threads.

Miette, I think Brooklyn buyers have lost their minds. They're still paying more than $1 million for apartments that are three-bedrooms only if you squint and have no dining room--AND THEY'RE IN BROOKLYN! I'd really like to buy in PS, but that's completely nutty. Does anyone have an explanation? 30 Yrs? Help us out.

At $1397 the maintanence is really high.

Copied from a post on the Comps thread because it is more relevant here:
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Posting this is premature, but assuming it closes near ask, that's a $235k loss, before factoring in mansion tax and transaction costs.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/481138-coop-66-orange-street-brooklyn-heights-brooklyn

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Closed for $1.2 in '07.

Check brownstoner threads on this building and you will hear lots of people discussing the high maintenance. Specifically questioning the financial stability of this building(and 111 hicks). Apparently this was an office building converted to residential and the floor plans are awkward.

Huh, interesting, Moxie. Actually, this unit's common charges seem quite reasonable for Brooklyn Heights; taxes tend to be higher there and this is a very nice location. Withouth having actually checked the brownstoner gripers (comparable to the streeteasy gripers, although frequently even more scatalogical) I'd question the notion that this was a former office building given the presence of the fireplace. Not something either easy or usual to add to a former office building.

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2009/10/coop_of_the_day_282.php

3c, same building, got a relatively positive response on bstoner and is in contract now even after a price hike.

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2007/11/just_sold_in_br_78.php

Here's the original Bstoner sales report for what appears to be the same buyer currently taking a bath on 3b; picture doesn't look like an office building.

the buliding's old name is "the insurance building"..see this previous streeteasy thread the last blurb is from a present owner who references its solid construction "because it was converted from an office building"

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/4272-150-joralemon-street-

the bstoner gripers sounded like they took issue with that maintenance based on square footage and lack of services(no doorman)

evnyc do u realize both links u used were for 66 orange st not 150 joralemon..my response was referencing the opening listing in the thread

Moxie, your original comment was unclear. It came immediately after mine, not after the OP which was 4 weeks ago. Please do continue to post comps as you come across them.

people are going to loose fortunes in Brooklyn the next couple of years.

aboutready, I'm all in favor of such a thread and appreciate the post.

However, I"m not sure these are the same floorplans, even when they have the same letter in the unit name.

It looks like some of the "C" floorplans have different square footages, as do the "F" units, I believe.

I think prices have come down a little in Brooklyn -- I watch the closings pretty closely. But I don't think they've come down from 550k to 391k for the same layout.

I would guess those are somewhat different floorplans.

I check recent closings in brownstone Brooklyn, but not Crown Heights or Gowanus or Bed-Stuy -- and I haven't made a science of it. I'd guess that recent purchases are still pretty much on a par with early 2008 pricing levels.

I think the peak of the bubble occurred in mid to late 08, so recent purchases are just barely down from the peak in the good neighborhoods.

There have been, however, a few exceptions. A couple of notable ones I put up as threads on SE -- one was a decent pre-war 2-bed coop on a good street in mid-Park Slope. It closed at something like a late 2006 - early early 2007 price, I think it was $400k-ish. It was a small 2-bed, and I forget what the maintenance was.

But the point is, better deals that show true price movement have cropped here now and then, but not a lot.

However the class B neighborhoods in Bklyn have seen slightly bigger price drops -- in that group I include Windsor Terrace and Clinton Hill and the like.

So I think what's happening is the price movement is clearly recognizeable in the weakest areas, but is only just beginning to show up in the better districts.

There's been a lot of broker nonsense, with asking prices getting jacked way up, and then negotiating "down" from the ask to levels that are still on a par with the peak of the bubble. I hate to see closings like that because it suggests naive buyers who are getting really skinned, but there's nothing to do but wait for the limited number of such folks to get cleared out of the market.

I think the differential between class-A Brooklyn and Manhattan will be less than it used to be, pre-bubble -- but some kind of significant differenital will re-emerge.

I agree with you, GG, that the second-tier areas have seen more movement. Downtown Brooklyn has been harder hit than Brooklyn Heights (to be honest those are the only two areas I follow closely as I have little interest in Park Slope and my spouse doesn't like brownstones), so I was happy to finally see some movement in the Heights. Until now things either sit or sell, mostly the former.

In one prime example of a buyer getting flayed, this 2-bedroom recently went for $600k, higher than that line had ever sold even at the tippy top of a frothy market:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/416945-coop-175-adams-street-downtown-brooklyn-brooklyn
Hope buyer doesn't need to sell for the next couple of decades, because he overpaid substantially for what is a solid but not in any way luxury building.

oh sure, I know Concord Village. It's ok and for years was thought of us housing for nurses-cops-teachers category, you're right, evnyc, there is nothing remotely luxury about it. Decent but boxy rooms with parquet-wood tiles in the living room, that kind of thing.

Nothing there to warrant that kind of price -- $650k! Amazing. Who would pay more now than during the bubble? During the bubble there was scads of cheap mortgages to be had -- now, not.

Like you say, I hope they don't need to sell for at least the next few decades. It frankly makes me think we're still in some kind of irrational exuberance and I should stop looking at prices for awhile. No desire to participate in an irrational market.

Me neither, GG, but I do want to find a place I can settle into without killing myself and stop having the annual "We could live somewhere cheaper/yes, but we love New York" conversation! Looks as though we'll be doing that for another couple of years, at least for now.

Renovated, in a pretty prime location with a parking space attached. Looks like it sold at its 2006 price.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/380546-multi-296-degraw-street-cobble-hill-brooklyn

07/31/2006 Brown Harris Stevens Listing sold. Last priced at $1,595,000.
02/06/2009 Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $1,900,000.
05/07/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $1,795,000.
07/10/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $1,650,000.
08/22/2009 Delisted temporarily.
12/20/2009 Listing entered contract.

nice catch, mjmsmith. I haven't been tracking townhouses. Are you keeping an eye on them? Are they generally trading at 06 prices?

401 Hicks Street (The Arches)

Apt. B6B - sold 3/3/2005 $690,000
09/01/2009 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $838,500.
11/20/2009 Listing entered contract.
02/02/2010 Listing sold.
02/02/2010 Sale recorded for $800,000.