Do Duplexes have a premium on their overall value?

Very difficult question as it depends on how you measure the square footage and how high the ceilings are. If the ceiling for any space at any level is less than 8 foot, it should not be counted in the square footage. Also, if the second level does not have an outside facing window (some just open into the living room), the space should be discounted. If it is a duplex with >8 foot ceiling height on both floors, the apartment price should be exactle the same as an apartment which is on a single floor, with the same ceiling height, and every thing else such as view, no of bathrooms being the same. In fact one could make an argument for duplex being priced less due to the wasted space in the stairs and landing.

I am admittedly not an expert but I think not a premium, but a discount. I don't think duplexes sell particularly well in NYC where space is so coveted that you'd rather be able to see most of your 1400 sq ft than have it split into two floors. Don't know if anyone's with me on this but that's how I feel

agreed. Premium above 2000sq ft... any smaller and you are losing 10-20% on a stair.....but maybe if you have alot of cats.... hmmmmm?

thanks for the feedback, not what i expected as i would much prefer a duplex as it feels much more like living in a house, and allows for greater separation of space. I suppose the real comparison would be a 1400 sq ft duplex, and 1250 sq ft apt. That would make more sense. In the one I am talking about all ceilings on both floors have height of 10-12ft.

should be more or less the same as an apartment on one floor in the same building as long as the stairs and landing are not wasting too much space.

I say discount for a duplex, all else being equal. Which it rarely is.

I have been studying this topic for a client. Do most duplexes command a premium? The answer is, quite definitively, "No." Do most sellers of duplexes EXPECT a premium? The answer is, just as definitively, "Yes."

Duplex with spiral staircase: discount.
Duplex where any floor is smaller than 700SF: discount (unless it has another feature, like an 18' ceiling on the main floor).

"modern: I say discount for a duplex, all else being equal. Which it rarely is."

that's the problem: discount based on what? Do you mean 2 apartment with 1400 usable SF so the duplex is 1400 SF PLUS the staircase? Because otherwise you're really comparing a 1250 SF apartment with a 1400SF apartment; which one should command a premium?

Also, you lose a lot of "families" when marketing duplexes who don't want their youngun's tumbling down a flight, etc.

agree with 30yrs...discount. what the discount is, hard to quantify as some people specifically look for duplexes, most do not. Put a 1500sft straight layout (maybe cov 3br/2bth) and a 1500sft large 1BR duplex together, and the straight layout will command a higher price on the open market due to higher functionality - in my opinion

the larger duplex is more of a luxury

"Also, you lose a lot of "families" when marketing duplexes who don't want their youngun's tumbling down a flight, etc."

Not necessarily.

Quite a few families prefer duplexes because of the separation between sleeping and living quarters. It's much easier to put the kids to bed earlier UPSTAIRS when Mom and Dad don't have to walk on eggshells DOWNSTAIRS the rest of the evening.

30yrs: Exactly right about the young'uns. You also lose seniors, people with disabilities, and people who anticipate someday being either old, or disabled, or both.

if that family is seriously considering brownstones as an option, yes...otherwise I would say the majority of families would prefer to have the larger straight layout...that is my experience with my buyers at least

"You also lose seniors, people with disabilities, and people who anticipate someday being either old, or disabled, or both."

Who anticipates being disabled?

i certainly do. my wife is disabling me in a methodical and slow way. yours isnt?

There are duplexes and duplexes.

First, is the duplex an original duplex? Based on OP's description, I would say no. If you're talking about an apartment combination, often the flow of the duplex is less than ideal, the mtce/cc/taxes are disproportionate. In addition, if you're talking about a duplex with identical upstairs & downstairs footprints, once you go above say, 2000 sqft, you may have a larger living & dining space on one level than you desire. Usually, the split for larger prewar apts yield more bedroom wing space.

The other issue is exposure. If you have one floor stacked on top of the other, you have identical exposures. Maybe that's a good thing if the exposures are good (but then it'll cost you more compared to a more typical apt with good exposures for living & mbr and lesser exposures for the other rooms).

All these things play into pricing.

What if the apt was designed to be a duplex? Then it's conceivable that there might be a premium especially if it's cleverly designed. In particular, I like the duplex setup at 610WEA. The bedrooms are not above the living space. Instead, the bedroom wings of the duplexes stack up against each other, as do the living spaces.

NYCMatt: Apparently, you have no experience with the many chronic medical conditions that cripple slowly. May your blissful ignorance persist indefinitely.

the majority of duplexes i've seen are poorly compromised. so much of the times the "upstairs bedrooms" are not walled off or really private, so what do you do with that? like others said, two floors with short ceilings is not great either. i think there are so many transplants who come to NY unprepared for how expensive it really is, are sick of feeling like losers in their small apartments, but once they get that sub-par duplex, boy, there's that feeling of "house" they long for, that a staircase somehow creates, and manage to feel like winners. then their rube friends are impressed too. ooooh. stairs. i'm sure there are some really great ones but i think that would be the exception, not the rule.

Thanks for all the comments, I am surprised, I have always thought a well designed duplex as a plus in a city like new york, perhaps because I grew up in a house with stairs... The one I am talking about is in a pre-war, but was made a duplex later, it is well designed, and the stairs do not take up much room. The two floors both have ceilings about 12 ft high, and great exposures. There are entrances on both floors, but a major downside is that there are two bathrooms upstairs, and none downstairs. I am not willing to put in a new one as this is a coop, and will be too much of a hassle.

I do think it should be compared to a 1250 sq. ft place, rather than a 1400 sq ft place.

Talsh - we're getting a duplex which we like more than many of the 2bedroom layouts we saw. The bedrooms do not have any joint walls, and it will be great to put the kids to bed upstairs while we can be loud downstairs. Also it feels like a house because of the stairs - we were both raised in full-size houses.

The spiral staircases are definitely a discount IMO - they're inconvenient and often shaky.

sounds like a pretty nice duplex. what are they asking for it?

Talsh, if it was made into a duplex, there should be plumbing downstairs for a bath unless the downstairs was actually split from a larger apt.

Must have been split from another, unless it is an original duplex, which i suppose is possible, assumed it wasn't as there may only be one or two other duplexes in the building. They are asking for 1.11 Million, No agent fee (family friend trying to close fast). This is after negotiation. Oh yeah, and no spiral stairs, but solid stairs that take up very little space by design. This is in a nice pre-war in midtown south on Madison Avenue. Open views from the 15th/14th floors.

Just wondering - is this 220 Madison?

Also, though it sounds as if this is a friend (or family friend) selling to you, really is not good to mix business with family (or other) friendships. I have noticed that somehow or other, high prices seem to have been realized when people have sold to "friends"

do you think that in this case you are paying a premium for a duplex? or are you hoping to later sell it at a premium? i am not balking at the 1.1 mio price, but there are far more savvy RE junkies on this site than myself than could analyze it appropriately (prepare for the bad news bears. or, are they harbingers of the future? i tend to side with them "irregardlessly" : )

220 Madison looks like a great building. Interesting that PH-DE traded hands 2x in less than 2 years. You were asking about tradeoffs, Ph41 in terms of neighborhoods. Say my price point was 3m, and I could buy a prewar PH in MH with good outdoor space, fully reno-ed, reasonable mtce vs. a classic 7 on a side street, UWS, similar condition. We would still go for the classic 7 in that instance.

nyc10023 - 220 Madison ia a pretty good building that the owners think is better than it really is - not great apartments in general, and the heavy bus traffic up Madison (city and express buses) is definitely a negative.
PH-DE - sold to a high up UN Diplomat (was on a previous thread) who didn't get to be the Sec'y General,divorced his wife, married his (UN) girlfriend and went back to India - sounded as if he really didn't need the money.

Re: comparison to UWS - if you have kids and are concerned about access to public schools, than I agree with you. If kids will be going to private schools, then not quite as important - in fact, possibly somewhat easier to be on the east side (lots of private schools).

And a lot has to do with the things you like to do in non-working hours.

nyc10023 - My husband and I wanted to stay in Murray Hill (well, he was less amenable to moving than I), and as you pointed out on another thread, the partner who makes more of the dollars that support the family should be the one who makes the decision as to where to live, when we looked for a larger apartment.

And, neither he nor I are great fans of the UWS, (okay, shoot me now) and he really didn't like Tribeca (which I did).

The real problem in Murray Hill(then and now) is that there are not a whole lot of larger apartments-larger spaces than 2/2's, choices are relatively limited in that regard.

Just noticed the PH-DE went to contract with an asking price that was $360K MORE than the closing in June (have a feeling he's selling to a "friend" who thinks s(he)'s getting a good deal.

If you have a family a well designed duplex is a premium. Can put the kids to bed and still have later dinners, people over, etc without worring about waking the wee ones.

Actually Murray Hill has an EXCELLENT public elementary school, PS 116. It is overcrowded but otherwise I've heard nothing but praise for it. Overall I don't think it is the child focused neighborhood the UWS is but the school is good.

When I was looking I said spiral staircases were a non-starter. People would look at me funny. I said simply that I was looking for my forever apartment and the idea of being 80 and dealing with one one of those was not amusing. I wouldn't even want to ask senior pets to deal with it. And while I a am a cat person, imagine having to carry a 100 lb dog up and down several times each day!

nyc10023 - this is an example of a prewar that is not what YOU like to think of as a prewar - i.e. there are no "classic" 6's , 7's, the rooms are not large,lahouts are pretty generic, building has lots of studio and 1 BR apartments (the grand pre-wars never had studio apartments, unless they are now marketed as maid's rooms).

Just look at the time on market for current sale - these owners do not want to face the reality of a product which is really not that special (though, east facing, high floor, overlooks the Morgan Library, is beautiful).