South Harlem Uprising?

It reads like an infomercial. Condos in Harlem are moving a a slug´s pace. Total bullshit from NYT.

As an owner in Harlem, I still believe that prices are going to $400-500 sq. ft- and possibly lower for a period as we hit bottom. These price slides don't happen as quick as the NY Times wants you to believe. Has anyone looked at the foreclosure/pre-foreclosure listings in Harlem lately? If I recall correctly- there were just a few this time last year. Last time I looked (a couple of weeks ago) there were about 50 listings, and the number was rising quickly. That would be more than a 1,000 percent increase in a year.

While I've never been a member of the "New York Times said it so it has to be true" club, I was wss appalled at this piece which read like total puffery. Reminded me of those real estate sections in the Daily News that where the "editorial" is obviously just the printing the advertisers press releases, and there is no pretense of journalism. Not that with newspapers hemorraging readers and dollars, the Times doesn't have the right to do what all the others do to maintain some revenue, just don't try to maintain the "holier than thou" attitude they've traditionally brought to the table.

The NYT's should really stop giving away what amounts to free ad space. This is truly embarrassing. I also live in Harlem-- I sold my downtown apartment for a pretty penny a while back and am renting in one of the new South Harlem condos while I wait for prices to hit bottom-- and believe me they are far from hitting bottom.

the area definitely looks much better than it did 10 years ago. the question is whether these buildings are selling and at what prices
The newer ones are at much better price points, but will they sell at these prices?

In my price range and size range there has not been much movement lately in either UWS or South Harlme
The summer seems to have been the low point
however, I agree that the slide has to continue as the new more interesting inventory comes on line

semerun -- where do you find the foreclosure listings?

I have found foreclosure listings on a few sites. Trulia and Hotpads both use Realtytrac to provide them with Foreclosure data- and both have a feature that allows you to only see foreclosure/pre-foreclosure listings. Trulia breaks down Harlem neighborhoods oddly/inconveniently (look at the maps), so you have to cobble them together to get an accurate picture. Hotpads provides you with a terrific map, although I think some listings get posted much later on this site than on Trulia. I know you can also find foreclosures on Propertyshark.

I don't know how accurate these sites are- since I know of a few properties in my area that have a lis pendens and are not listed- but for now I am just trying to do an apples to apples comparison. When I first started looking at the Realtytrac data about a year ago- I only recall seeing a few properties listed (throughout the various neighborhoods of Harlem). When I look now, I see a massive increase in listings.

Streeteasy would be wise to take cues from these other real estate sites.

But we all have to remind ourselves that that asinine piece was in the NYT's Real Estate section, and U.S. newspapers have traditionally let their Real Estate sections serve as shills for the real estate industry ....
But yes, it was brazen ..................... and misleading ........
Regarding Realtytrac ---- that's where it seems the foreclosure info is, but I don't want to sign up for their "free trial" ....

Thx Semerun -- I typically monitor these sites and also foreclosures.net, but had not looked in quite a while
Based on my current recon for 10027 and 10026 I do not see anything unusual in either foreclosure or pre-foreclosure compared to the last 2 years. We have been to 3 auctions and in 2 of these the person managed to get a deferral. The 3rd one sold at the loan value and has been sitting empty for the last 1.5 years. We were not that interested in that location. I have tracked several others but they never seem to show up for auction. One has been deferred at least 8 times just this year. At the same time I know there have been several short sales, including some in the areas I am very interested in. However, each of these was an SRO with people living in it and hence was not suitable for us.
It is an interesting world, where no doubt many face loss of house and that is sad, but most of these were speculators or people who got bum loans knowling they could not afford them and milked the system -- and continue to.

There is anecdotal evidence that the properties above 125th are much more vulnerable, but I have not tracked that area, so I dont know. If you live in that part of Harlem then your intelligence is likely very much on target.

The South Harlem brownstone market seems to be propped up by limited inventory on the market. The condos are not selling and there are many of them on market. I am surprised that they have not totally collapsed in price even as new ones are coming on. The LIVMOR seesm to be promising -- 2100 sq ft penthouse apt for 1.1 to 1.2 million -- or so says the article. Depending on the taxes, cc etc, this is quite interesting and I suppose they will bargain down or offer parking etc.

Average sale price in Harlem is $447 psf according to Trulia -- which is not very accurate in my experience -- largely due to small volume of transactions

At the least, the NTTimes should put "advertising supplement" in small print when they run one of these pieces. That's all they are. No true reporting or information here except from one side: the brokers.

Ask Vie Wilson, who is quoted in the piece, what happened to Graceline Court. One of her properties which is a disaster. 116ths is South Harlem, is it not? Also, with the new inventory about to open up, I expect prices to lower even further in South Harlem.

They were calling it SoHa for a while. Remember that?
Or is that one of the developments and I'm just forgetting (brain dead from too much holiday company and booze)?
I think those places will be a good deal eventually -------- but now is not the time, IMHO.

But i'm going to be looking to buy one of those places in the fall or slightly later ..........
As near to 125th Metronorth as possible (I've dumped my idea to buy in Norwalk or Stamford ---- for the nonce, anyway)

Google maps has a real estate function, and you can sort using sales, rentals, or foreclosures as well. Not sure how accurate/complete the foreclosures listings are.

Poorish, Ive been following the Harlem market closely. I feel that is the perfect place for a reverse commuter. I have a friend that lives in Westport that is thinking of having a place in Manhattan and is starting to look in Harlem as well.

Totally makes sense, Mimi. I've been looking at it for a number of years ----- from 2007, in fact.
I used to go look at the little boutique-y condos in Spanish Harlem -----SpaHa!!! That's what it was! But it wasn't right for me to buy one then ............ I wonder how those little boutique-y places have done.

The New York Times really dropped the ball with any objective reporting on the Livmor Condos at 301 West 115th Street. The NYT did not even read their own 1995 article where the builder Amon Shalhov was a partner in a development company responsible for the deaths of three tenants! Read the NYT article here http://tinyurl.com/ybcte2h

Well, it IS true that there are a lot more nice, market rate units in Harlem below 125th now, and especially along FDB it makes you almost forget you are in Harlem & and frankly that stretch looks and feels a lot nicer then most of the UWS from 96th-110th.

So in that sense it is objectively true that people looking to live above 96th (or 86th) ANYWAY might be more apt to look now.

That having been said...yeah, prices do need to come down more to make it an even trade, and the NYT should have pointed out the poor showings for Soha118, 5thonthePark, and Graceline, to name a few.

Jason, what do you think about Striver´s Row?

Too far north for me. Anything above 125th is too far north. The gentrification of Harlem, such as it is, is kind of non-existent to my eyes if you are east of 8th ave and above 125th. The nice townhouses and new bldgs are just too spread out, as are the few amenities.

And even in its hey day, the townhouses and apartments were much nicer, on average, below 125th, from Park to the Hudson. There is just more raw potential closer to regular Manhattan.