Why are people like this allowed on airplanes without extreme security?

profiling -- which is what you are talking about -- is the only way to have effective security

but more criteria need to be added,particularly risk factors such as travel to pakistan, country of flight origin, etc

What if someone from #2's family dies or gets sick? They're going to need to be able to fly on shorter notice than 10 days.

start with the American citizen and verifiable background criteria. No normal American is going to Pakistan to begin with. Or Nigeria. But if they do, throw them in bucket 2.

evnyc good question, in which case if that person is subject to the full security and fees of 3, then it can be worked out

What if when we have information about a potential security threat, we actually put that name on the no fly list? Oh and by the way, paying cash for a ticket and not checking bags would probably be a pretty good tip as well wouldn't it?

Yes those would be good additional security checks. But not a replacement for this person being put in category 3 to be gin with.

But what you see is this person doesn't have a credit card or debit card. We have higher restrictions for credit cards, debit cards or bank accounts than for flying. It should be the other way around.

I'm with you, reallypissed, I am not only pissed but anxious, I'm getting on a plane to LAX then to Hawaii in a couple of days. Gutwise I feel like canceling my trip, but logically I know this is probably one of the safest times to fly--right after a terrorist attempt.

We have the technology to stop this nonsense in its tracks without racial/national profiling. I've been in a puffer screener, it's not bad at all and it's quick. Thing is, Timothy McVeigh was born here.

Oh, and did you hear about the yo-yo with the firecracker on a plane who was just caught--after he left the firecracker between two seats? That was cute.

Just a correction , Terrorists are not "permitted" , it's more passive. To me the issue is one of negligence by authority/u.s. government.

Considering the jobless and the need to tighten up security on air travel in particular, it begs to ask two things

1) why is the u.s. not following Europe, Japan & China in developing high speed rail
2) in an age when the u.s. is arguably over-expanding the scope of government, why isn't
the government fulfilling one of its most basic missions, "safeguarding u.s. citizens"

hfscomm1

His father even warned the U.S.
The new administration refuses to call these guys terrorists(i guess its a police matter?). Unfortunately those who want to blow us up have not turned the other cheek.

hfscomm1 yet again.

"The new administration refuses to call these guys terrorists"

Yes, I love this. They know hell will rain down on them for being soft on terrorism if they mess up the messaging.

It's really weird
1) they won't call them terrorists
2) we don't try them as war criminals
but yet
1) we send soldiers to die fighting them in Afghanistan and probably now Yemen

The Government should follow the lead of El Al Airlines....they PROFILE passengers...only way for safer air travel!!!
All the security right now is just an ILLUSION!!!

If someone distorts Islam and devotes their life to an act to kill innocent civilians then threaten to bury them with a pig.

Absolutely agree. I always thought it was preposterous how people acted as though profiling in this way is wrong. It's the only intelligent way to do things. ElAl is a great model for how to conduct airline security.

Fluter your point about Tim McVeigh, no system is foolproof.

For those who like El Al's system, that is correct and they know who you are before you show up at the airport.

The guy paid cash for his ticket (wasn't this supposed to be a red flag?), and didn't check any luggage (a small carry-on for a supposed two week stay) - shouldn't either of these things raised a red flag?

Also, has anyone noticed that in an age of greater threat there is less and less human interaction at airports? Airlines want us to check in at the automated kiosks (never have to look an agent in the face).

Seems as if there is less and less real security when traveling.

By the way also RiverSider who mentioned the father. Under the system I said above the father would be equally subject to the restrictions. No one who is not a born U.S. Citizen to U.S. Citizen parents should be in category 1.

Also the topic about checking any luggage, most business travelers don't check luggage that is not a red flag.

"didn't check any luggage (a small carry-on for a supposed two week stay)."

I haven't checked a bag in a decade and half. I can travel for six months with the contents of a carry-on bag; I'm of the Rick Steves persuasion. Doesn't make one a terrorist, it makes one sensible, particularly in this day and age.

and there in lies the entire problem. we as a society cannot agree on anything anymore. and anyone who disagrees with anyone else is immediately ostracized.

This is an idea I had right after 9/11. "Flying clubs" - large groups of people who charter planes to go places (and skip all the security stuff). The group gives all their individual (and verifiable) bio-data to each other & gov't. Do away with regular airlines - that's a dying biz model anyway.

My anus is really itchy today.

1) tim mcveigh was a American as could be, was a us sodier;
2) London bombing occurred on trains and buses;
3) 100% of all mail/crappola underneath the plane is never chked. I believe the Lockerbie was in the belly.
4) spirit air crashed due to highly flammable oxygn containers in he cargo hold (no real changE in protocol.
5) russian plane crashed due to pilots children taking hold of joystick,
6) Hawaiian air torn apart due to metal fatgue;
7) lost flight crashed due to strong island magnetic disturbance.

I have and still advocate naked plane traveling. It'll do more for healthcare, obescity, and security than any profiling. One other point, my wife Getz these Mexican mules with 1-4 lbs of cocaine in their stomach. I dont knoW but this post reaks of stupidity.

Maybe we should accompany each other to the bathrooms in public spaces, how about random civilian cavity searches by the guardian angels, or maybe we should all hold hands during the flight so we can tell who's going for the lighter?

FYI. My anus still itches.

What's interesting is electing Obama in place of George Bush has not changed anything.
This is not an indictment of Obama or Bush. It is a reminder that the issues go well beyond who is President.

what's really interesting is that you are hfscomm1.

Well we can agree on things and we can agree that these folks are more likely to be dangerous. That doesn't mean we will eliminate Tim McVeigh. The perfect should not be the enemy of the good. And yes regarding Spirit Air etc, we should have the higher standards for general safety too. We do not need to go to the lowest common denominator of safety just because one area might be poor.

I'm totally with w67th on this. Also, I think the OP is a troll ..... probably paid a bit by Grover Norquist, and folks of that ilk.
Commies!!! Commies everywhere!!! Let's build bomb-shelters in our backyards!
This airline security frenzy is so nutsy ---- just like the red scare from so long ago.
And Osama bin Laden lives on and chuckles ........

Grover Norquist wants lower taxes.

What does taxes have to do with safety and keeping dangerous elements out?

I don't want to build bomb shelters in our back yards. The public should be safe when flying. If you read what I wrote there was no increase in extra security for people in the first category.

You are in the minority if you think airline security is nutsy.

It's nutsy to make little old blue-haired ladies flying from Omaha to Topeka take their shoes off to prove they're not shoe-bombers. And there are a million other nutsy things that DO NOT limit terrorism but merely victimize people who aren't ........ white Americans going back a bunch of generations.
Reallypissed: you are a right wing dolt.

Oops, sorry for the name calling. Let me rephrase that: Reallypissed: your WORDS are right wing doltish and stooooopid.

I was waiting for someone to call the race card.

You don't think black and Asian and Latin others can have been born in the U.S. to U.S. parents? You arent even thinking.

There is nothing right or left wing about putting Americans first and recognizing that there are threats from out of the U.S.

Oh look, another thread where columbiacounty chases around a poster and acts like an ass.

riversider reappears as hfscomm1. voila.

If we follow the rules you want put into place we lose everything that America is about and what's the point of America if we do that...we can have both... a free and open society but more careful screening, not profiling.

What is wrong with profiling foreigners?
We profile people when they get a basic bank account.

America is for Americans, we are not about non Americans unless we invite them.

Do both parents have to be "American"? Or is one sufficient?

Very clever question my friend.

we can't even record the price of sold apartments correctly. how the hell will we ever keep track of this?

Aboutready, back from vacation! What is it like on your first day back from vacation to doing ... nothing?

We have excellent databases in this country.

A few years ago American Express instituted a new security verification on my account - they asked me to verify my mother's birthday. They never asked me for it, they got it from the bureaus. There is rich data on people in this country. Let's use it to make things easier for Americans, what could the objection possibly be to that?

that is positively hilarious. lets hire people in india to verify US citizenship? how about pakistan---probably could get a better deal.

Who said anything about that? If you have real objections I'm happy to hear that.

Tim McVeigh is a good question. So far I haven't heard any good suggestion from you.

as i said earlier:

"and there in lies the entire problem. we as a society cannot agree on anything anymore. and anyone who disagrees with anyone else is immediately ostracized."

we have enormous problems in our country that we blithely ignore or better yet blame someone else for. where does death from terrorists rank in terms of unnecessary (i.e. preventable) deaths?

The perfect should not be the enemy of the good.

What is your proposal, because people smoke and are obese, we should skimp on the best security measures?

And your requote seems more like some rant. We can agree on things. What specifically do you disagree with? Greater watching of foreigners? Or that we don't just add more watcing of Americans?

What about Ivana Trump?

She's in category 2. (the mother).

jesus...

you suggested that having only one carry on bag was a red flag.

some one else pointed out that she easily travels for weeks with one carry on bag.

a small, silly example of the bigger problem.

as for the other issue: there is something called opportunity cost. it is so satisfying to get on our high horse about this situation...of course its stupid that we let this guy on a flight but you just dismissed pain and suffering for hundreds of thousands if not millions of people based on the ridiculous way that they eat. nowhere near as sexy as pictures of planes flying through the air but so much more bang for the buck.

No I did not.

I said, "Also the topic about checking any luggage, most business travelers don't check luggage that is not a red flag. "

What the heck was your comment on how people eat?

forgive me---you are correct. it was another poster. how does your master plan work to handle other opinions?