How long before one stops looking to buy?

When it is cheaper to buy than to rent or if you've hit some $$$ jackpot and you no longer care about value.

I would also add that it also depends on whether you can currently afford the place you have in mind based on your income, down payment, job security, etc... I keep hearing the argument about the better quality of living in owning vs. renting. For me personally, the stress associated with over extending myself financially would greatly effect my quality of life.

we have looked on and off since 2006 and are still looking. i agree it is VERY tiring and demoralizing and honestly, i am ready to be a permanent renter but my husband is adamant about owning.

I sold in 2005 and waited in vain for market to return to sanity. I seriously looked to buy for 6 months last summer. Determined prices had not come down far enough. I am going to rent for another 2 years and watch the market. Things are very volatile and don't want to commit such a big chunk of our equity until I am more sure of where the market is heading. I think that will take at least a year. I don't think prices will rise from here in the next 18 months so I don't think I will miss out on anything. If I am wrong, well, rents are cheap and seem to be getting cheaper and I am just happy to be here.

Three years is a long time. Likely, someone is not really committed to buying. We finally bought in 2008 when spouse was ready, after two "failed" attempts -- each lasting only a few months, but spanning several years in the '90's. We are both extremely happy to be owners after going through all the BS of being tenants, -- uncaring landlords, rent increases, moving several times, etc. It took us roughly 3 months in 2008 to find our place. Our home met our three or four most important criteria, and some lesser criteria were abandoned. We both knew how difficult the buying process in NY can be based on prior searches and anecdotes from friends, so we were prepared in 2008. BTW, we bought without a buyer's broker.

I sold at the top of the market in '05 (peak never attained again for my old bldg). Was determined to keep renting, but at the time, not much inventory in market. As a result, bought again in '06. Is there regret? Sure, but up until very recently, there really wasn't anything for rent. The question becomes - how long can one rent for? If you're a single person or couple, or have one kid or have multiple (but have a lock on schools), I think the answer would be indefinitely.

Thanks everyone.

We're in an unusual situation: as NYU faculty we have heavily subsidized housing in the Village. As one poster once said, "you've hit the NYC jackpot, why buy?" But as people have said here, you get tired of the BS of landlords, etc. Plus we want a bigger place, which NYU will not give us unless we're breeding, which we are not. The last straw: we get kicked out of our 1 BR into a studio once we retire.

So that explains the 3 year hunt, it is a matter of finding something better for a "reasonable" amount of money. We've made several offers but they have fallen through for various reasons (e.g. the co-op had major problems during diligence, or our offers were not high enough).

Apt23: there are always deals, no? A few months after I sold in '05, I had the opportunity to buy back in the same building, same apt for 20% less on a higher flr, banking a few hundred thou for our trouble. If you target a specific neighborhood, I have always found that prices never move in a straight line down or up - lots of sideways movement. So while you may be too impatient to get the 50%+ off that people are projecting in NYC, I suspect you can get 30%ish price movements now...

SEJunkie: "Three years is a long time. Likely, someone is not really committed to buying."

Congrats on a purchase you are happy with as it met your most important criteria. However, for others reading this, I would like to point out the timing of your purchase and that how long one looks cannot be used to determine whether someone is committed to buying. If the ice on a lake should be x inches thick before you go ice skating on it, do you do say that person isn't really committed to skating just because the person didn't go on the ice after waiting for many weeks, yet the ice is only half an inch thick due to warmer than expected weather? Especially, when the weather is finally starting to get cold...

This is an interesting question and I think it goes something like this. We owned for 15 years on the Upper West Side in a nice co-op and start to think that we did ultimately well but we remember the years from before we bought how there was significant appreciation and then a painful decline for others who owned back then and even when we bought it was tough going hearing about lower sales for a few years. So we decide to contemplate selling and think that renting isn't so bad because there have been good newer rental developments in the last few years. The market for the sale is pretty good and we actually get it done in 2006. We had looked at rentals, and Related is a good company that also does sales developments so how bad can it be. We aren't too thrilled with the kitchens and bathrooms and closets but this is probably a smart decision for us since the kids have been gone for a couple years already and perhaps we can make money with a little bit of timing. Plus we are New Yorkers, try something new. So relatively new rental building, not inexpensive rent compared to our old maintenance but we banked a lot of cash so not a problem ultimately. Two years lease we renew again for another two but we never feel at home but this was our choice. Generally, over this time instead of knowing our neighbors like we did in the past there are relatively a lot of move outs and move ins over time, a definite different feel from before, everything down to the way people put out their garbage, on the one hand more institutional with the building and on the other hand a lot more transient and not the same in it together feel either. Plus the building feels a bit more like en loco parentis, maybe it is just the grating of sending in a monthly rental check, not because of the amount but because we always owe something to someone else, a management company or some staff that don't work for us but rather work for others who sometimes they need to ask permission from.
So definite longing to get back. I think the condo route will have some of the downfall issues that renting did so likely to look at co-ops again. We long for the place that is ours and has closet space and has neighbors who are cooperatively in it for the long term. We are looking to go home.

Forget about the "reasonable" amount of money. It doesn't exist in Manhattan. If you can afford what you want/need, buy it. Manhattan is not reasonable. When we finally bought, we intentionally left a little money on the table to ensure a smooth closing. It's all a choice. Many people on this board are looking for a "deal." We were looking for a home in Manhattan. BTW, we once made an offer on a property where the "owner" didn't actually own the property, and the listing agent had no idea. After incidents like that, one gets discouraged.

Jbread: you are in a sweet spot. If you stay in the neighborhood, you know all the buildings, so take your time and go to O/Hs. Make insultingly low bids if something strikes a chord, and the best part is, even if you don't buy at the ultimate bottom, you banked a few hundred thousand, no?

I don't know why we'd making insultingly low bids if we like something. If we want something we want to keep the market in mind but we are looking for a home and before we buy we will probably envision how we live there, so then to bid lower than sensible, and of course that is the rub, would be counter-productive. So if we pay 10% or some other amount more than the sellers bottom line threshold but it is still within our means and it is the property we like, it wouldn't make sense for us to do anything else. Not to mention that we do want a co-op and insultingly low is a formula for a rejection and insulting the board versus having a few points to correct, is not something you can always go back and correct. If we were looking for a standalone home in the suburbs or even in the Hamptons or the Jersey Shore, or if we were buying any old commodity type 1 bedroom and were largely indifferent among them, then insultingly low might be a strategy that is sensible. It's like a job, you don't want to win everything in your negotiations if you are going to have long-term dealings or employment with someone. Aggressive, sure, but fairness is core to a respectful daily living environment.

khd, we've been searching for a few years as well, but--like many others--have been unwilling to buy into a hyper-inflated market. When we moved into our rental 9+ years ago, we never thought we'd be here as long as we have. But with no kids and no need to move, it's been easy to stay. As others have suggested, it just doesn't make sense to buy now when renting is so much more economical. As a result of our extended rental, we've amassed a substantial down-payment for when the right (and right-priced) apartment becomes available.

Sunday, I see your point. The ice is likely (finally) thick enough for skating. Now's the time, if you really want to skate and don't mind the cold. You might also have to shovel the snow off the ice. :-)

Rlm: If I were in your shoes, I don't know that I'd buy, ever. Unless a place came up on a dream block that has no rentals or I found good outdoor space (harder to get in a rental).

Khd: see, I would think that you would have absolutely no reason to buy - and who knows if your dream place would still be NYC when you're retired? If you are feeling the need to be creative and do homey stuff, why not get a country place?

nyc, we've always wanted to buy, so renting--yes, laughably, after nine years--still seems temporary to us. As a result, we've done little to make our apartment attractive, only livable. Plus, I covet a second bathroom.

SEjunkie, many, many people haven't been able to afford what they need, at least if they are planning for the future. and thus they continue to look, especially if they have reasonably affordable rent. it doesn't mean they aren't serious. it just might mean that they aren't willing to trade manhattan for the rockaways just yet.

rlmnyc, you obviously can't install an extra bathroom, but there is a lot you can do to a rental to make it more inhabitable. if you think you're close to buying, probably not worth it. but if you run the numbers and compare what it would cost if you moved, you might be surprised.

rlmnyc: sounds like we are in the exact same situation! We've been here 9 years, amassed a big down payment. Just a matter of finding the right place.

nyc10023: indeed! We might retire in Florida, where they are giving places away. We've never been country people (we don't have a car either) so we're not so keen on a place in the sticks (styx?) just yet. But thanks for the suggestion.

Its been interesting to read everyone's thoughts. I get the impression that it is just a very personal decision at the end of the day. The one piece of advice I've got from people who have bought in the past is to stretch a little bit (operative word is little!) over what you think you can reasonably afford to get a place to be happy in.

Thanks again.

Looked for 18 months but were numbed by mediocre inventory at inflated prices until last spring when things really seemed to change. Due to market uncertainty going forward we adjusted our requirements downwards and decided to base our price on what we could safely handle on one salary and live in comfort for 5 plus years, rather than getting the biggest and best we could afford. If we hadn't changed our requirements it's possible we would still be looking and less inclined to take the chance. Sometimes you have to shake yourself out of the paradigm and try a new tack otherwise real estate can become an endless pursuit. Evaluate why it is you want to buy and if the reasons aren't compelling enough, you'll be chasing o/h's for years and wondering why you can't find the right one.

Hi, ar, nice to see you (read you) again today. Every year we renew our lease, our flexible landlord gives us a three-month out. "This is the year," we say repeatedly. Our LL's probably chuckling each time she hears this. I'm convinced that the minute we make our house a home that we'll buy our apartment.

khd, it sounds like we could indeed be real estate twins. Stretching is precisely what got some folks into financial hot water. We could indeed buy an apartment with our current down-payment, but I have to sleep at night and not feel chained to my job; my husband feels the same way. I'll be interested in hearing how your search continues through 2010. Best of luck.

Spinny: I got your email re: counter, and I'm having the carpenter make the base, and we'll throw a piece of plywood on to try for size before actually getting the stone made (or not). The other thing to note is that you found a pretty unique property to buy that would be hard to rent. I get the sense that people are looking to buy something like what they're renting, which is a much less compelling reason to buy, IMO.

spinnaker, if we actually lowered our apartment requirements and bought a place, I'd have to find a new hobby besides going to OH's and reading SE. What would I do with my time?

Sadly, I own and am not looking to make any RE decisions. I still frequent SE and OHs and (horrors) even make appts to see places.

nyc, that sounds masochistic. But I guess if you enjoy it and you're not hurting anyone, more power to you.

I'm not the only one on SE who does...

rlmnyc - just a suggestion if you're stuck and want to become unstuck... look somewhere else, something different. As nyc10023 correctly notes, looking for a carbon copy of your rental seems less likely to inspire a purchase -if that's what it is you're trying to do.

rlmnyc, when we bought some new kitchen cabinets, painted, etc., the hubby became quite convinced it meant we would move, and soon. but i'm surprising him with my old-age tolerance for mediocrity. it WAS nice to fix up the place a bit, and it made me appreciate the surroundings quite a lot, but i think it was likely a peace of mind thing. making the apartment my own did indeed make it my own (after a fashion).

i have an absolute abhorence of stretching. accidentally did it one time (circumstances changed after the purchase). will never do it again.

spinnaker, good suggestion. We're actually looking for a pre-war co-op, after subletting in a post-war condo. Maybe I'm the masochistic one for not expanding our search and not committing fully to our rental. Or maybe I'm a commitment-phobe.

ar, funny. I often tell my husband that I aspire to mediocrity. I'm with you on sitting comfortably, rather than stretching. After seeing what a shoddy job our LL did renovating prior to our move-in years ago (we had a recent mouse infestation and had to pull out the cabinets), I'm not feeling the love.

"Approaching our 3rd year anniversary for looking for a place to buy in NYC. Very tiring, when does one know when to stop?"

Apparently, when you finally get realistic about what you can afford.

nyc10023: if you pocketed 20% that is great. congrats. Money in the bank is a beautiful thing. and yes, I am still really looking but since I have to rent for at least a year, I'll take my time. After we sold in 05, I still wanted my RE fix so we bought an investment prop in Miami which we love. We thought we would sell it in a couple years and plow it into a larger NYC apt but we just might keep it and buy something more modest in NYC. The sun/ocean factor for low $$$ is a very seductive thing. Everything I loved when I was looking last summer in NYC was still in the 2007 price range and I thought it was just too risky. Watching Miami RE close up has taught me a lot about price drop. But if I see a great deal in NY, I'm ready.

It is frustrating, khd. I feel the same way. Price-to-rent ratios just don't make sense to me at this time and I feel my money is more prudently invested elsewhere - for now.

It took a long time from the late eighties to the mid-nineties before Manhattan bottomed out. I think we're seeing something similar now.

Hope you can hold out at least as long as you have a nice one-bedroom still! There are lifestyle issues as well as financial ones. There's a side of me that is thinking that I will be buying by the end of this new year. Good luck.

Have been looking, on and off, for a pied a terre in both Bklyn (Park Slope, Prospect Heights) & Manhattan (UWS, Chelsea) for about three years. Most of what we saw had major flaws. Good units in solid buildings were on the market briefly - quickly in contract at prices others seemed willing to pay. For now, it is a weekly glance at SE and watching my cash get 2% interest. Yawn.

Thanks Topper and rlm for the well wishes and luck!

rlm: yeah, I'd like to know how my search this year will go, too! As far as stretching goes, I think my friends/colleagues were suggesting just stretching a tiny bit. We are very fiscally conservative, have done all the debt/income ratio stuff. We've mostly limited our upper limit based on what we pay for rent, maintaining our lifestyle, accounting for surprises, etc. We're happy with our jobs (so far!) and get regular raises. Of course, the "plan" is to be here for more than five years, hopefully forever. We're definitely not desperate and hope to hold out for the right place.

One story that didn't discourage us from looking for this long so far: one my colleagues who is a "several hundred millionaire" and his wife took 3 years to find their place, a spectacular co-op on 5th Ave (I have no idea how much it cost, but I imagine 7-8 figures). I figure if someone who was spoiled for choice had a hard time, a schmo like myself would also have a hard time. More power to the posters who were able to do it in less than a year!

sjtmd: LOL, sounds familiar!

Thanks again, everyone.

I'm glad I'm not the only one addicted to the chase for a tiny bit of the Apple to call my own ......
It's a fine enough hobby.
But you know, khd, I think I enjoyed renting actually more than owning in that I was less emotionally involved when SHITE happened in the building.
Oh wait. That was at least PARTLY because while renting I could afford much more than I could afford by owning.
I'd say keep renting .............. for a while longer. Can't hurt considering the present market.
I rented, then I bought, then I sold.
Now I'm getting the jones to buy again, but I'm going to keep it clamped down for a while.
But it's fun to keep an eye on SE.
And the NYC market is so complex that it's better to keep your skills up than to let them go to sleep for a while.
Good luck in your search!

> How long before one stops looking to buy?

Logically... when they figure out that it doesn't make financial sense.... some take longer than others.

If you're making offers that aren't high enough, then your sense of what you want to pay doesn't correlate with the market, and you're basically just window shoppers. You will buy when the market comes down or you increase your budget.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

If you're serious about owning a home, why would you really stop? Sure, it's tiring, but, as Boetheus said, "the wheel turns." If good deals didn't require patience (for most of us who aren't supremely lucky anyway), then I don't think this thread would exist. It can make sense financially and personally, despite what some would have you think.

I had friends in the suburbs who didn't like their suburban house ----- well, the wife didn't. She wanted a bigger place, but she was very, very picky. The husband basically let her continue slowly searching for the bigger, better place in the same neighborhood -------- for seventeen years!!!!!!
In the meantime, their kids had grown up and gone off to college or were on the cusp of it. But she was still on the search ---- and then BINGO she found the big place she loved.
Readers, she bought the place.
Her kids (17, 22) were kind of horrified, but Mom was going to do what she wanted to do .......
So now she's in her new huge house which took her 17 years to find!
She's crazy!
But we're all crazy.
Which makes it interesting.

Westchester suburbs. And after the move into the big place, the husband was laid off by a big tech firm. Now he's a schoolteacher.

Westchester suburbs. In the meantime, the husband lost his IBM job and became a schoolteacher in NYC!

Front porch???????? Holy mother f-------er!!!!!! R u serious? Therez no bubble, we just all don't earn enough. And if you look at asset appreciation as a gauge of income, there will always be a bubble.

Such broker diahhrea coming from idiot mouths. Holy trinity, no wonder you lasted 1 yr in banking. You definitely found your calling in NYC re brokering, preying on the age old 'if you gotta ask, itz too expensive for you.'

Btw, op, me thinkz the crazy bubble in NYC re and subsequent lemming market that we are in now haz 99% of why you feel like you are looking forever. I don't recollect this looking forever feeling in 1995.

1999-2001 prices, no problem.

Looks like its season of the buffoon again. Seriously w67thwannabe you gotta get out of that UWS timeshare and find someplace more tranquil to ease your SSSSTTTTTRREEEESSSSSSS!!!! Will they let you transfer into another timeshare, like in Guam?

In between sets. Who wants to be like w67?
Spinny, keep reaffirming your unit is 'spl'. Lmao. 2003 trades happening in some nice bldgs. Ain't much longer now. Funny thing with internet/info, mkt will lot quicker this go around. Thatz 1000% westie guarantee.

w67th, spinnaker's right. Ali's been nothing if not level-headed and honest on these boards - it's nuts to insult her as you did.

Bjw? How is it being level headed and honest, when the most honest thing a borker can say is 'rent' for a yr as the sales mkt continues to go south. Or look at how chEap rentals are.

She knows how she gets buttered. You may not smell it, but I smell the 'you can't afford it' karma loud and clear. Which is really realy funny cause thy are culling borkers.

w67th, the difference is you seem to think you "know" the market, whereas Ali essentially said it will behave the way it wants to. Individual buyers should make decisions that are financially and personally sound to them, but have to recognize that they're not owed "good deals" or year-x pricing. I see nothing wrong with what she wrote.

Gotta go with w67 on this one. There are some brokers on SE who reliably check the BS at the door. 30_yrs and Noah come to mind. And Fluter is growing on me lately. The rest are useless at best. Current discussion relates to a wolf in sheep's postings.

I've also been looking since fall 2006. I'll buy when the fundamentals match up; when it makes sense to buy rather than rent.

With rental prices at all-time lows, that's certainly not right now.

sideline, no doubt there are some brokers with questionable tactics around, but I'm shocked you'd place front_porch among them. Based on what exactly?