70 Berry vs. Warehouse 11

I thought 70 Berry is pricing at 670 per square feet according to StreetEasy.

not on the 2nd floor

then you are comparing 2nd floor vs 5th floor of warehouse

no 2nd to 2nd

I see what you are saying... so no amenities vs full service?

factory vs toxic waste site?

Not sure about the hazard in a factory. I guess every williamsburg condo is subject to certain health risk.

W11 has many rumors surrounding it, just too risky to buy now. There 120+ units in there, I just don't see how they will find that many fools to buy.

you're having a conversation with yourself here, aren't you, little buckaroo?

I agree. 70 Berry seems to have a lot of good comment but I still think that living in a factory is not good for long term. There are a lot of chemicals dissolved in the wall. There should be some study about living in factories could cause health risk.

This is all new construction

What factory walls would you be referring to seahawk?

I must say it one of a few new construction project in WB that works with the surrounding buildings.

I guess the bricks? Abestos? You just never know.

Williamsburg is a highly industrilized site. Oil spill's impact is not only on warehouse 11 but other areas also. Some people might think if the oils are right underneath the building then it's fine but I don't think so, if you continue living in benzene concentrated area then you will get cancer.

Obviously, this can't be proven until 20 years later. Then people will start showing symptoms.

The serious issue is how far the underwater oil spill extends. I haven't seen any map showing that it extends to the w11 site...but I'm not totally sure what caused the oil spotted there during construction, but something said it was from some oil tank (bad as that is, it is not as seroius as the whole friggin underground spill being near you...and by the way...if the underground spill goes that far then lots of other places have this same problem).The New YOrk mag article is very informative.

SeaHawk, well, the spill started in the 40s and 50s, and cancer rates in the area are lower than Manhattan's. It should be pointed out that the oil refineries were in northeast Greenpoint, which isn't as close as some might have you think (though 1.5 miles is obviously walking distance).

seawawk: 70 berry is completely new construction

bjw, I was aware of that but the benzene effect could quickly spread across the whole williamsburg. It's air and you can't see it. Just like you are living under the electric power cord, suddenly everybody got sick and got cancer. That's the scary part because it is slowly affecting everybody's health and no one would notice it.

wannabuy, ok... if 70 berry is new construction, then it should be ok but it doesn't eliminate the risk of hanging out in Williamsburg in long term. Obviously, there is risk vs reward. I am just having a hard time to estimate this risk but I believe this risk does exist. Oil Spill is just part of it.

There may be toxins in Wmburg, even in areas beyond the plume area. But it is ludicrous to assume Manhattan is toxin free. Look at the zillions of miles of piping, telephone wires, leakage, decades of runoff from city streets, etc etc etc in the ground in Manhattan. If you want to worry about the seep up risk I find it hard to believe Manhattan would not be way way dirtier than less densely populated areas.

this is dumb rumor crap about toxic this and that - check health stats for the area. north brooklyn has lower rates of cancer and asthma than most of brooklyn. anyway we all live in the city full of pollution, so it's all risky.
also, please supply one actual fact that W11 has anything toxic about it. i thought that they cleared some old oil tanks below it.
i have no particular interest in that property besides having viewed it and liked it, but i think that these rumors are nuts.

I didn't say Manhattan is any way better. In fact, people who live in Manhattan has a shorter life expectancy then rural areas - probably because of high stress. However, the sample size is small, not many people will live in Manhattan forever and so the data may be limited.

I am just telling all of you that those industrial site has some intangible risks that everybody seems to ignore or just focus on warehouse 11. So I don't think warehouse 11 would be any worse than living in other williamsburg condos because all of those people are exposed to the same air, same environment.

450 a foot cancer will a risk many here will take, LOL

wisco, people just don't report the right data because factories and companies would not let them. The data in north brooklyn is biased.

Hey Wisco, if you wanna live on top of that: http://gowanuslounge.blogspot.com/2007/02/ground-at-roebling-oil-field-still.html
Be my guest!!!! It's all yours! I recommend you getting an apt on ground level!

"wisco, people just don't report the right data because factories and companies would not let them. The data in north brooklyn is biased."

You can't be serious.

I can't comment on what the health risks are of living in the area in general, but I assume if you're buying there, you've done your research and are fine with being near historical oil spills, possible underground water network, etc...

But being directly on top of a contaminated site is a deal killer for me. w11 sits on top of such a site. The DEC authorities were involved and used industrial "bio-salve" to treat it. When asked about the safety in terms of residential tenants, they responded by recommending a membrane laid below the foundation. Now, I don't know about you, but that kind of undermines confidence in the bio-salve doesn't it?

70 berry does not sit atop such a site as far as what I've read. The closest site is 34-40 Berry on N. 12th which is the new rental building. Gowanus Lounge pulled the article (don't want to speculate why here) but you can still see it when you through google cache:

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:K98sblsYChwJ:www.gowanuslounge.com/2008/06/21/berry-oil-pit-another-mess-in-burg-checked-out-by-state/+40+berry+oil&cd=15&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

"This is one of many photos that hit our inbox yesterday of a horrid mess at 40 Berry Street in Williamsburg, where construction activity seems to have ruptured some underground oil tanks that were being removed. By yesterday afternoon the state Department of Environmental Conservation had checked out the spill, whose exact parameters are unknown. We had featured the site in question, calling it the Mud Pit of Death, because of very dangerous conditions involving crumbling dirt and a fence that opens to a two-story mud pit. (Name now officially changed to the Berry Oil Pit.) The site will be home to a big luxury rental building whose investors include Lehman Brothers and the California State Teachers Retirement Fund. The resident that sent this and other photos writes:

Oil Spill on 40 Berry ST (Corner of N 12th ST, Williamsburg). There are at least 8 tanks being removed. Oil has leaked into the surrounding soil. People in neighboring buildings are complaining of headaches. In one building across from the site there are 5 children ranging in age, from 5 weeks to seven years old. We are nervous about health issues related to the rapid excavation of several contaminated sites on the Northside.

A follow-up email added this information:

The oil spill seems to extend to neighboring sites as well. I had the DEC here this morning to confirm the problem, but no solution was presented. They basically said that all of NYC was toxic.

Another Roebling Oil Field (which is cleaned up per Department of Environmental Conservation standards), but different.

yikes!!!

That's what the 1st floor tenant will look like in 5 years:
http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080418/monsters/Toxic-Avenger_l.jpg

LOL, that was good

Hence the discount on the lower floors

Can you sue the government 20 years from now because the government said the building is safe?

Cancer rates are low in that neighborhood due to lack of inhabitants. Now that the hood developed this may change.

http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/brooklyn-foreclosures-not-just-in-east-new-york

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/925995

are you guys familiar with The Mill?...I think it's a pretty nice building, decent location, sold a couple years ago, and so far as I can tell it seems like pricewise it could make 70 berry not look like such a great deal. Above unit sold for less than 500psf.

thoughts?

for example, a second floor unit in the mill was sold for 600 psf in 2007. That was near peak in Manhattan, maybe not in Wmburg, but I think it gives some perspective on the degree of a deal being obtained at that price today at the so-called bargains at say 70 berry.

Jim - I answered your other question on the open house thread. But one thing to know about unit 307 in the Mill (with very plain fixtures, no washer dryer, only one bathroom, etc) is that its views of the bridge from that 3rd floor unit are no more:
http://curbed.com/archives/2008/07/15/williamsburg_lament_hey_who_moved_my_bridge.php

Tina
(Brooklyn broker)

Can't comment on these buildings that have "character". I'm more of a brainwashed cookie-cutter Karl Fisher fishbowl connoisseur. But I suspect that high monthly costs may have something to do with it. Also paying up for such huge unconventional loft spaces may not appeal to your average Manhattan family transplant.

Thanks. I just find it interesting that in new buildings that sold well in 2007 some units sold below 600psf.

"Cancer rates are low in that neighborhood due to lack of inhabitants. Now that the hood developed this may change."

Except that rates adjust for population sizes. Basic stats.

And according to you the population will adjust upwards. Basic knowledge.

It will. But that doesn't mean the cancer rates will go up.

How did i just spend 5 min reading this thread and learn nothing?

Its a great possibility, cancer rates will increase as these places are now habitable but time will tell. Again, basic knowledge. People and their agendas.

Can somebody provide the health stats of New York? Is there a link to it? Then everybody knows the true fact.

http://www.health.state.ny.us/statistics/cancer/registry/vol1n.htm

I'm sure we will hear some inventive reworking of the facts

Now perhaps this thread can revert back to its initial purpose of comparing 70 berry to w11?

70 Berry has overpriced 2 bedrooms. Particularly the layout is awful. The kitchen is in the center and will affect the entire apartment's ventilation.

w11 is 550-600 psf on the higher floors 4 and 5 vs. about 700 at 70 berry,

moxie,
this thread was started by jerry, who then, as seahawk, started answering himself

ah yes jmg the double handle. i would like you to now call me CowboyFrank

Jim I will be curious to hear your opinion of w11 after the open house. Let us know.