Another Piece of the East Village in Danger - Save Ray's!
Started by glamma
about 16 years ago
Posts: 830
Member since: Jun 2009
Discussion about
From The Villager: Save our Ray One would think that one type of business that would be able to weather the current economic downturn would be a place selling fast food, coffee and soft-serve ice cream — like Ray’s Candy Store on Avenue A. People can always spare a couple of bucks for a hot dog and an egg cream or lime rickey, the thinking goes; we still have to eat, right? Sadly, it’s not the... [more]
From The Villager:
Save our Ray
One would think that one type of business that would be able to weather the current economic downturn would be a place selling fast food, coffee and soft-serve ice cream — like Ray’s Candy Store on Avenue A. People can always spare a couple of bucks for a hot dog and an egg cream or lime rickey, the thinking goes; we still have to eat, right?
Sadly, it’s not the case. Ray Alvarez, the tiny shop’s iconic owner, is having one of his worst seasons ever, to the point where he’s been unable to pay his rent recently, and is now being threatened with eviction by his landlord’s managing agent; last week, she warned she would padlock and chain his store shut if he didn’t pay his rent by Friday. Yet, Ray’s place remains open this week.
Loyal customers are stopping by to buy extra servings of hot dogs, Belgian fries, Belgian waffles and frozen yogurt, trying to eat their way to helping preserve Ray’s. And friends are working on setting up a PayPal account to help Ray raise funds.
Yet there’s no question he’s in a dire situation. And it takes selling an awful lot of chili-and-cheese frankfurters to meet a $4,000 monthly rent.
The point is, as anyone knows who has ever hung out in Ray’s for a while and chatted with the man, he is truly a unique person — an East Village institution if ever there was one. As one Ray fan once described it to us, his store is a sort of modern-day agora where all the local news is exchanged, where people make new friends and bump into old ones. Sure, it’s not antiseptic and perfect looking like Starbucks — but then could you ever buy “Obama socks” at Starbucks?
Some think that if Ray finally finds a magic product it will turn around his fortunes — his latest new offerings are Philly cheese steaks and cappuccino. The menu additions keep things interesting, but will they be enough to save his business?
There has been a lot of talk in the neighborhood in recent years about preserving local mom-and-pop businesses, and keeping out the big chain stores. Ray’s Candy Store is a perfect example of a local business that truly offers a unique, authentic experience, from its old-style soda fountain to Ray himself and the cast of quirky characters and locals who patronize his place.
Until his recent cash-flow problems, Ray has paid his rent faithfully for more than three decades — so one could say, he’s paid his dues. His place used to be one of the only businesses open on Avenue A at night, when taxis wouldn’t even dare come that far east. He slept in his store to protect it from burglars. He’s been slashed and slammed with everything from jagged fluorescent bulbs to metal sidewalk vault doors, and survived.
Those tough times are gone, but now Ray’s facing new challenges. Plus, the man can’t even get his Social Security and he’ll be 77 in a few weeks. Without his store, he’ll be completely broke and on the streets.
From the sound of it, the managing agent’s intimations that another tenant is ready to come in at a higher rent are probably hype. If she could just cut Ray some slack, she would give him a chance to start making money again when business picks back up in the warm weather.
Ray deserves a break — after all, he’s been breaking his back working every evening in his little hole in the wall for more than three decades. Simply put, he’s a vital part of the neighborhood fabric. It sounds like a cliché but it’s true: Without him, Avenue A and the East Village just wouldn’t be the same. People talk about communities losing their character. Well, Ray IS character, plain and simple. There’s got to be a way to save his store.
http://evgrieve.com/2010/01/behind-landlord-ultimatum-at-rays-candy.htmlhttp://evgrieve.com/2010/01/rays-candy-store-featured-in-amny.html[less]
Response by evnyc
about 16 years ago
Posts: 1844
Member since: Aug 2008
Nooo! Not Ray! Where do we make donations?!
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Response by alanhart
about 16 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
I used to go there for malteds ... but I thought it was Ukrainian-run. Maybe that was just the graveyard shift employee.
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Response by lizyank
about 16 years ago
Posts: 907
Member since: Oct 2006
Sounds like Ray is a victim of gentrification greed as much as he was of mugging and robbery in the bad. I can't afford to contribute to the fund (honestly one of the worst things about unemployment is not being able to give monetary support to worthwhile causes although I did make a donatation today for Haitian relief--those poor people are besieged beyond our comprehension and way beyond any definition of "suffering" we can know) but I will plan on showing support by stopping by and patronizing Ray's. Long live long time local businesses!
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Response by aboutready
about 16 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007
liz, bless you for giving at all. many neighborhoods are getting thin in the local business arena. i too am trying to make an effort to patronize smaller businesses. as a former small business owner, retail, i know how hard it can be.
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Response by KeithB
about 16 years ago
Posts: 976
Member since: Aug 2009
Ray has been in a pinch a number of times over the years, honestly I was surprised to see him behind the counter when I stopped in for an egg cream a few months ago. I remember when it was just Rays, A7 and the Park Inn next door that were open after dark (circa 1981)...good times. I may have had my first egg cream there or it may have been Gem spa? The new owner at GS still makes a pretty decent one as well...
alanhart when were you hanging around avenue A? Maybe we know each other? lol.
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Response by julia
about 16 years ago
Posts: 2841
Member since: Feb 2007
I'll also go by and buy something...lizyank...you have a great big heart.
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Response by aboutready
about 16 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007
liz, do you have my gmail address? if so, send me a message. if not, give me yours. ok. please.
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Response by lizyank
about 16 years ago
Posts: 907
Member since: Oct 2006
AR just sent a test message to what I think is your address. Hasn't bounced yet so that's a good sign. Either that or there may be an imposter. Shit if I just sent my address to ultra-troll...
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Response by lizyank
about 16 years ago
Posts: 907
Member since: Oct 2006
Keith and Alan the question may be WHY were you hanging out on Avenue A? Very few reasons back in the day. Must have been music. or Polish food..of course it COULD NOT have been the other one...not you two fine citizens. If it was, I just hope you shared lovingly.
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Response by glamma
about 16 years ago
Posts: 830
Member since: Jun 2009
to donate, email saverayscandystore@gmail.com.
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Response by truthskr10
about 16 years ago
Posts: 4088
Member since: Jul 2009
Where has tenemental been?
I'm not used to east village threads and not seeing his posts.
A loss for streteasy.
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Response by alanhart
about 16 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Liz, I assume "the other one" is slumlording and real estate acquisition. Sadly, not that, so I guess it's music and Ukrainian food. Very early 80s I found myself hanging out at lunchtime and beyond at Leshko's instead of high school; a year or so later I added to that late-night band gigs at the Ratcage (as audience); some years later Pyramid, but only for Whispers on Sundays.
Keith, a lot of my friends from around that time did Park Inn (and Blanche's), but I remained a Holiday guy.
I went to Veselka, for the first time in years, a few years ago, despite their switch to sunny, happy huge plate glass windows ... but just fine with the expectation that there would no longer be a sign in the powder room that said "THIS IS NOT A SHOOTING GALLERY". I'm not such a hardass these days that I'd permanently 86 the place because the counterman offered me a straw with my eggcream (but don't get me started on that) ... when said eggcream turned out to be totally flat watered-down chocolate milk, and I pointed that out, he explained that the seltzer wasn't working. For some reason, it didn't occur to him to say 'no egg cream for you!' I wonder what they do when they're out of meat and someone orders a burger. 86, Veselka!
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Response by lizyank
about 16 years ago
Posts: 907
Member since: Oct 2006
Ah if only I was smart enough to think of slumlording and real estate acquistion way back in the day. Karma may not be that great but bank account would no doubt be in way better shape and my butt would be in Key West as we speak.
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Response by glamma
about 16 years ago
Posts: 830
Member since: Jun 2009
holiday lounge for the next meetup? bueller?
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Response by somewhereelse
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7435
Member since: Oct 2009
For me, this one is easy. This isn't "heartless landlord doubles rent". Sounds like people just aren't patronizing his business. Folks don't want what he has to offer.
Yes, it said, people's lives are at stake... but why keep open stores that people don't value?
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Response by glamma
about 16 years ago
Posts: 830
Member since: Jun 2009
well here's the thing. ray pays the max, $4k a month for his tiny space, but the property manager, barbara chupi, claims she has someone who will pay $5k. she has used this trick before several times, when actually there is no other person. as long as she gets the old tenant out so eventually, property changes hands, she makes money. she obviously could care less about the neighborhood and is just another person in the business who will gladly sell the soul right out of the EV for the dollars.
doesn't matter how great your business may or not be when you're dealing with some of these greedy landlord tactics, you're no match. also, i hope you are extremely happy when you turn around and all of manhattan has become a strip mall. that'll be awesome, right?
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Response by alanhart
about 16 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
You're all wrong!
Ray's business model is unsustainable because despite the great egg creams and malteds, the income came mostly from cigarettes, which are bought by fewer people and then at a lower rate ... and I suspect the higher price comes at a much lower margin to the retailer than it used to; and from newspapers and magazines, which people don't buy anymore.
... "bueller?" ???
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Response by somewhereelse
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7435
Member since: Oct 2009
"well here's the thing. ray pays the max, $4k a month for his tiny space"
actually, sounds like he's *not* paying the max... he's missing rent payments.
"but the property manager, barbara chupi, claims she has someone who will pay $5k. she has used this trick before several times, when actually there is no other person."
This isn't relevant. THe article stats he isn't making it at the current rent. Whether they could get someone higher or not doesn't matter.. .he can't make the CURRENT work. The landlord is a red herring.
The guy just doesn't sell enough of what epople want."
"as long as she gets the old tenant out so eventually, property changes hands, she makes money."
If its a trick and there is no other tenant, why would she want him out?
in the end, doesn't matter. People don't want what the guy sells.
Thats when a store SHOULD close.
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Response by somewhereelse
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7435
Member since: Oct 2009
"Ray's business model is unsustainable because despite the great egg creams and malteds, the income came mostly from cigarettes, which are bought by fewer people and then at a lower rate ... and I suspect the higher price comes at a much lower margin to the retailer than it used to; and from newspapers and magazines, which people don't buy anymore."
So, we're losing a cigarette store. God heavens, no! Makes it even clearer this is not a bad thing...
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Response by glamma
about 16 years ago
Posts: 830
Member since: Jun 2009
i don't know what to tell you, this is a great shop and i will really miss it if it closes. they have 23 flavors of colombo at all times and awesome hand cut fires, for far cheaper than anywhere else in the hood and served with a lot more personality. why would it be good if this turned into a citibank? endangered mom and pops' in the EV is an epidemic, there is a greater issue at hand here, ray's is just one example.
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Response by somewhereelse
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7435
Member since: Oct 2009
> this is a great shop and i will really miss it if it closes.
You were outvoted then. Not enough people cared to shop there.
> why would it be good if this turned into a citibank?
strawman argument. who said it should be a bank?
But, at minimum, it can be something else that folks actually support.
A small takeout place, sell fruit, a cool retail shop, who knows?
But why keep stuff that noone wants around? Leave it for things that people want.
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Response by somewhereelse
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7435
Member since: Oct 2009
> endangered mom and pops' in the EV is an epidemic
Endangered by crazy landlords, sure.
But endangered by a product noone wants? GOOD.
I like how we think just because something goes away, thats a bad thing. This isn't an animal to study. Its a STORE people don't particularly feel like buying things in.
Some things SHOULD end. Hence the term "good riddance".
We should not be protecting stores people don't want.
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Response by somewhereelse
about 16 years ago
Posts: 7435
Member since: Oct 2009
save the overpriced shoe store that nobody goes to! Save the guy that repairs buggy whips! Save the guy who repairs those things you used before photocopies!
come on, its not like saving the whales...
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Response by lizyank
about 16 years ago
Posts: 907
Member since: Oct 2006
Could it also be an issue not of selling "things nobody wants" but as Glamma noted, "having prices far cheaper than anyone else in the hood". Since Ray has been in business for many years he is used to have a Client base of primarily poor people since that is who used to domminate life in the East Village, not people who could afford to pay "top shelf" prices. Perhaps Ray would be willing to work with someone who would volunteer their time to show him how to update his product mix to relfect the new demographics and sensiblities.
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Response by aboutready
about 16 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007
liz, i don't know. you're in the neighborhood. did you ever shop at At Home? glorious shop, around for many years. not overpriced, but definitely not cheap. phenomenal buyer, gifts from around the world and great local artisan jewelry and gifts as well. one of the best gift/home shops i've seen, one where you would actually go in to find things for yourself, not just gifts.
went belly up last year, i believe.
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Response by aboutready
about 16 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007
btw, i don't think you had my correct e-mail address.
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Response by lizyank
about 16 years ago
Posts: 907
Member since: Oct 2006
AR, isn't that the place that was on Third Avenue next to Natural Pet? It was a great place I was surprised and very sorry to see go. I'd stop in there even when I lived further north and treat myself to a nice candle or something. And it was great for gifts that weren't generic. Truly a loss to the neighborhood when that place left. I believe the space is slated to become a nail salon--something we truly need on Third Avenue.
Can you give me address or send to lizyank@aol.com Thanks.
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Response by aboutready
about 16 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007
i'll be in touch.
it's rather stunning, in our neighborhood, how many places are becoming nail salons or spas. as equal numbers are disappearing.
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Response by bjw2103
about 16 years ago
Posts: 6236
Member since: Jul 2007
A bit facile to state that just because an establishment can't make it, it deserves what's coming to it. If these neighborhoods only kept the most profitable businesses, they'd lose quite a bit of their character - you know, the things that make New York special in the first place. Otherwise, it's just like Kansas, which somewhereelse seems to belittle so much in the first place - seems conflicting to say the least.
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Response by glamma
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 830
Member since: Jun 2009
hi all, you can show your support for ray's by purchasing save ray's clothing, totes, mugs, magnets, coasters etc at the links below. spring's around the corner and ray has overcome a lot already, here's hoping he makes it to ice cream weather.
hi all, you can show your support for ray's by purchasing save ray's clothing, totes, mugs, magnets, coasters etc at the links below. spring's around the corner and ray has overcome a lot already, here's hoping he makes it to ice cream weather.
Nooo! Not Ray! Where do we make donations?!
I used to go there for malteds ... but I thought it was Ukrainian-run. Maybe that was just the graveyard shift employee.
Sounds like Ray is a victim of gentrification greed as much as he was of mugging and robbery in the bad. I can't afford to contribute to the fund (honestly one of the worst things about unemployment is not being able to give monetary support to worthwhile causes although I did make a donatation today for Haitian relief--those poor people are besieged beyond our comprehension and way beyond any definition of "suffering" we can know) but I will plan on showing support by stopping by and patronizing Ray's. Long live long time local businesses!
liz, bless you for giving at all. many neighborhoods are getting thin in the local business arena. i too am trying to make an effort to patronize smaller businesses. as a former small business owner, retail, i know how hard it can be.
Ray has been in a pinch a number of times over the years, honestly I was surprised to see him behind the counter when I stopped in for an egg cream a few months ago. I remember when it was just Rays, A7 and the Park Inn next door that were open after dark (circa 1981)...good times. I may have had my first egg cream there or it may have been Gem spa? The new owner at GS still makes a pretty decent one as well...
alanhart when were you hanging around avenue A? Maybe we know each other? lol.
I'll also go by and buy something...lizyank...you have a great big heart.
liz, do you have my gmail address? if so, send me a message. if not, give me yours. ok. please.
AR just sent a test message to what I think is your address. Hasn't bounced yet so that's a good sign. Either that or there may be an imposter. Shit if I just sent my address to ultra-troll...
Keith and Alan the question may be WHY were you hanging out on Avenue A? Very few reasons back in the day. Must have been music. or Polish food..of course it COULD NOT have been the other one...not you two fine citizens. If it was, I just hope you shared lovingly.
to donate, email saverayscandystore@gmail.com.
Where has tenemental been?
I'm not used to east village threads and not seeing his posts.
A loss for streteasy.
Liz, I assume "the other one" is slumlording and real estate acquisition. Sadly, not that, so I guess it's music and Ukrainian food. Very early 80s I found myself hanging out at lunchtime and beyond at Leshko's instead of high school; a year or so later I added to that late-night band gigs at the Ratcage (as audience); some years later Pyramid, but only for Whispers on Sundays.
Keith, a lot of my friends from around that time did Park Inn (and Blanche's), but I remained a Holiday guy.
I went to Veselka, for the first time in years, a few years ago, despite their switch to sunny, happy huge plate glass windows ... but just fine with the expectation that there would no longer be a sign in the powder room that said "THIS IS NOT A SHOOTING GALLERY". I'm not such a hardass these days that I'd permanently 86 the place because the counterman offered me a straw with my eggcream (but don't get me started on that) ... when said eggcream turned out to be totally flat watered-down chocolate milk, and I pointed that out, he explained that the seltzer wasn't working. For some reason, it didn't occur to him to say 'no egg cream for you!' I wonder what they do when they're out of meat and someone orders a burger. 86, Veselka!
Ah if only I was smart enough to think of slumlording and real estate acquistion way back in the day. Karma may not be that great but bank account would no doubt be in way better shape and my butt would be in Key West as we speak.
holiday lounge for the next meetup? bueller?
For me, this one is easy. This isn't "heartless landlord doubles rent". Sounds like people just aren't patronizing his business. Folks don't want what he has to offer.
Yes, it said, people's lives are at stake... but why keep open stores that people don't value?
well here's the thing. ray pays the max, $4k a month for his tiny space, but the property manager, barbara chupi, claims she has someone who will pay $5k. she has used this trick before several times, when actually there is no other person. as long as she gets the old tenant out so eventually, property changes hands, she makes money. she obviously could care less about the neighborhood and is just another person in the business who will gladly sell the soul right out of the EV for the dollars.
doesn't matter how great your business may or not be when you're dealing with some of these greedy landlord tactics, you're no match. also, i hope you are extremely happy when you turn around and all of manhattan has become a strip mall. that'll be awesome, right?
You're all wrong!
Ray's business model is unsustainable because despite the great egg creams and malteds, the income came mostly from cigarettes, which are bought by fewer people and then at a lower rate ... and I suspect the higher price comes at a much lower margin to the retailer than it used to; and from newspapers and magazines, which people don't buy anymore.
... "bueller?" ???
"well here's the thing. ray pays the max, $4k a month for his tiny space"
actually, sounds like he's *not* paying the max... he's missing rent payments.
"but the property manager, barbara chupi, claims she has someone who will pay $5k. she has used this trick before several times, when actually there is no other person."
This isn't relevant. THe article stats he isn't making it at the current rent. Whether they could get someone higher or not doesn't matter.. .he can't make the CURRENT work. The landlord is a red herring.
The guy just doesn't sell enough of what epople want."
"as long as she gets the old tenant out so eventually, property changes hands, she makes money."
If its a trick and there is no other tenant, why would she want him out?
in the end, doesn't matter. People don't want what the guy sells.
Thats when a store SHOULD close.
"Ray's business model is unsustainable because despite the great egg creams and malteds, the income came mostly from cigarettes, which are bought by fewer people and then at a lower rate ... and I suspect the higher price comes at a much lower margin to the retailer than it used to; and from newspapers and magazines, which people don't buy anymore."
So, we're losing a cigarette store. God heavens, no! Makes it even clearer this is not a bad thing...
i don't know what to tell you, this is a great shop and i will really miss it if it closes. they have 23 flavors of colombo at all times and awesome hand cut fires, for far cheaper than anywhere else in the hood and served with a lot more personality. why would it be good if this turned into a citibank? endangered mom and pops' in the EV is an epidemic, there is a greater issue at hand here, ray's is just one example.
> this is a great shop and i will really miss it if it closes.
You were outvoted then. Not enough people cared to shop there.
> why would it be good if this turned into a citibank?
strawman argument. who said it should be a bank?
But, at minimum, it can be something else that folks actually support.
A small takeout place, sell fruit, a cool retail shop, who knows?
But why keep stuff that noone wants around? Leave it for things that people want.
> endangered mom and pops' in the EV is an epidemic
Endangered by crazy landlords, sure.
But endangered by a product noone wants? GOOD.
I like how we think just because something goes away, thats a bad thing. This isn't an animal to study. Its a STORE people don't particularly feel like buying things in.
Some things SHOULD end. Hence the term "good riddance".
We should not be protecting stores people don't want.
save the overpriced shoe store that nobody goes to! Save the guy that repairs buggy whips! Save the guy who repairs those things you used before photocopies!
come on, its not like saving the whales...
Could it also be an issue not of selling "things nobody wants" but as Glamma noted, "having prices far cheaper than anyone else in the hood". Since Ray has been in business for many years he is used to have a Client base of primarily poor people since that is who used to domminate life in the East Village, not people who could afford to pay "top shelf" prices. Perhaps Ray would be willing to work with someone who would volunteer their time to show him how to update his product mix to relfect the new demographics and sensiblities.
liz, i don't know. you're in the neighborhood. did you ever shop at At Home? glorious shop, around for many years. not overpriced, but definitely not cheap. phenomenal buyer, gifts from around the world and great local artisan jewelry and gifts as well. one of the best gift/home shops i've seen, one where you would actually go in to find things for yourself, not just gifts.
went belly up last year, i believe.
btw, i don't think you had my correct e-mail address.
AR, isn't that the place that was on Third Avenue next to Natural Pet? It was a great place I was surprised and very sorry to see go. I'd stop in there even when I lived further north and treat myself to a nice candle or something. And it was great for gifts that weren't generic. Truly a loss to the neighborhood when that place left. I believe the space is slated to become a nail salon--something we truly need on Third Avenue.
Can you give me address or send to lizyank@aol.com Thanks.
i'll be in touch.
it's rather stunning, in our neighborhood, how many places are becoming nail salons or spas. as equal numbers are disappearing.
A bit facile to state that just because an establishment can't make it, it deserves what's coming to it. If these neighborhoods only kept the most profitable businesses, they'd lose quite a bit of their character - you know, the things that make New York special in the first place. Otherwise, it's just like Kansas, which somewhereelse seems to belittle so much in the first place - seems conflicting to say the least.
hi all, you can show your support for ray's by purchasing save ray's clothing, totes, mugs, magnets, coasters etc at the links below. spring's around the corner and ray has overcome a lot already, here's hoping he makes it to ice cream weather.
http://evgrieve.com/2010/03/save-rays-clothing-and-accessories-line.html
http://www.cafepress.com/SaveRays
covered by the new york times "a different kind of bailout."
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/nyregion/07about.html
hi all, you can show your support for ray's by purchasing save ray's clothing, totes, mugs, magnets, coasters etc at the links below. spring's around the corner and ray has overcome a lot already, here's hoping he makes it to ice cream weather.
http://evgrieve.com/2010/03/save-rays-clothing-and-accessories-line.html
http://www.cafepress.com/SaveRays
covered by the new york times "a different kind of bailout."
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/nyregion/07about.html