rental markets continues free fall with no end in sight

apt23, Hugh and I have no relationship and no commonality on agendas. However, you did start a thread recently mentioning me in your / the first post. I'm not sure you have much credibility on this matter.

Fortunately for you, you haven't released as much personal information as aboutready the toilet whore, so it won't be as easy to discuss your flaws as it is with aboutready and her many vices and entitlements and how poorly she treats her family. But I'll take notice. Your hypocrisy shines brightly.

Rhino86, as a Jew, don't you have some shame for your treatment of other minorities?

When you finally get that first touch of a woman, it will change your life, HFS. I'm not Jewish.

Apt23: I may have to break out my pimp hand for you...

"When you finally get that first touch of a woman, it will change your life, HFS."

Yes, it will land him in prison.

too true.

related decided to quit indicating the size of the units rented in this building. it's not terribly hard to figure it out, but it doesn't surprise me that they started to do so in september, after it became apparent that the massive summer influx of renters hadn't occurred. you really do have to wonder how many units the landlords are holding unrented these days.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/the-strathmore

does H work for patterson?

Is there anyone smart writing about the evolution of finance from the 1970s and then the pivot up with Reagan, Greenspan, the Bushes, deregulation...and the fact that it might be 'normalizing' now and what it might mean to this city? All the bullpologists on this board are looking at the headline bonuses and declaring us stabilized....Meanwhile only big hedge funds had a management fee to pay out with last year... and the numbers of finance people employed is still way way down.

thyere gonna have to puke em sooner or later

Jim Hones says no.

Rhino are you a RINO?

Do not let this thread get HIJACKED!

Pls. ignore all mindless banter - it's the only way to stop it.

Retorts just encourage it.

You can ignore. You can do it!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/nyregion/22singles.html

.

Living with parents until married...sounds very...Spanish. If we're becoming Spaniards in our living arrangements, does that mean Siesta is next? 6 weeks vacation? Uncensored nudy magazines displayed on news-stands? Even better, a Museo de Jamon in time square?????

In all seriousness, I agree with marco_m 100%. Not exactly sure how the rental market is going to rebound anytime soon when this continues to be the common theme?

http://www.nydailynews.com/real_estate/2010/03/19/2010-03-19_rent_city_rentals_are_the_backbone_of_the_nyc_real_estate_market.html

or you could chose not to leave all of the bullshite spewed by the bears on this board

jim_hones10
2 minutes ago
ignore this person
report abuse http://www.nydailynews.com/real_estate/2010/03/19/2010-03-19_rent_city_rentals_are_the_backbone_of_the_nyc_real_estate_market.html

or you could chose not to leave all of the bullshite spewed by the bears on this board

“The market is flooded with inventory on the sales and rental side,”

one person's opinion. similar to a few homebodies quoted in the times article who probably would have never moved here in the first place. mom's cooking is a powerful draw for some people

this is gonna be one ugly spring / summer for rentals.

like last year right? i hope its just as ugly.

marco, again, i hate to keep having to throw this in your face, but you don't know shit about the manhattan rental market. you just don't. so find another pet project. maybe you can find a board where people slag off the new healthcare bill. that seems up your alley

econ 101...more supply with less demand = lower prices

Everyone can find an article that is going to support his/her own view.

All I can speak to is first hand experience and knowledge. I moved last summer from a Rockrose 1BR, where they were offering 2 months free to new tenants and AUTOMATICALLY reducing rents on lease renewals by 10%, unsolicited, to a larger, high floor loft w/ 2 bathrooms (MAJOR PREMIUM IN MANHATTAN) in a Rose Associates full-service luxury high-rise. Why did we move? Because our current lease is 22% less than the previous tenants were paying, plus we got a month and a half free, so net, 30% cheaper. That was LAST summer.

Currently, I have several friends in different parts of the low-mid level rent spectrum here in Manhattan (range from $2k walk-up one beds to $6k 2br luxury rentals) who are moving because they are finding the same thing. Better apartments for less money in better neighborhoods. Oh, and they've had their pick of apartments, and haven't had to snatch it up the day it hit the market like it used to work.

Maybe I'm in a bubble of my own, but I'm not sure how you can tell bears that they're idiots.

Hi, NYC10007 - do you have any feel for the type of landlords you're referring to? Are your friends looking at big, corporate landlords vs smaller landlords?

My hunch is that one part of the market that will feel still more pressure this year is the condo rental market, where they have to discount the unit for the hassle of the application process. Seems to me those'll help keep the lid overall rents, just because the listing prices are a bit lower. Especially in neighborhoods where there's a good mix of both straight rentals and condos.

"My hunch is that one part of the market that will feel still more pressure this year is the condo rental market, where they have to discount the unit for the hassle of the application process."
I agree, and also think owners need to be more creative and aggressive in their approach and actually be smart marketers, starting with having a clean apartment, with a sparkling kitchen and bath, and continuing through to paying the fee.

THE NOsedive has JUST begun WHEN stocks stop Soaring the BIG CHOPS wILL BEGIN NYC 1007 is Right on more often for MONTHs !!

wow...half way through 2010 and its the same old story...lots empty places

marco,
I might be living in a bubble world, but i swear to you that the rental market has gotten so much busier in the last month... like crazy busy since April 20th. I can't really tell why but we have had so much more activity. My girlfriend works in the Village and I work in Soho & Brooklyn and we both get between 10 and 15 calls for every apartment we advertise within a day or two. Maybe were outliers since we both advertise low end and high end.

From what I'm hearing and seeing it's a circus right now...is anyone seeing anything different?

what do you call a rental broker couple?

a: brokerer

what do you call a rental broker couple's son?

a: junior alcove

what does a broker couple telling me the market is shooting to the sky on 5-10-10?

a: adolf hitler telling his people, we are winning ! In October 1945.

must be all those job openings at lehman

Seen a couple things
1 luxury rental building removed the two free months they were giving out
1 luxury rental building added back the one free month they were giving in February but removed by March

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w67thstreet
about 2 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse what do you call a rental broker couple?

a: brokerer

what do you call a rental broker couple's son?

a: junior alcove

what does a broker couple telling me the market is shooting to the sky on 5-10-10?

a: adolf hitler telling his people, we are winning ! In October 1945.

how often do you plug that little runner wife you have? how often does she let that disgusting gorilla body on top of her?

Jimnutz the 1965 bway 2bdrm just dropped rents by $500 per month. Is that the strength you are seeing in the mkt?

Trust me my wife had a 'happy' mothers day.

Go craigslisting so you can 'set' the mkt and then have your 'boss' rubber stamp your 'genius', cause the foolz don't realize it's the rental borkers who are the 'bosses!'. Flmao.

I am looking at rental apts in the bro
pton, atelier and the silver towers. In the last two cases one or two free months are still on. At brompton the owner is willing to pay the broker fee. Called truffles, they dropped rent on a studio $100 and are willing to negotiate on price.

That was meant to be 'and are willing to negotiate on price some more'

"Jimnutz the 1965 bway 2bdrm just dropped rents by $500 per month. Is that the strength you are seeing in the mkt? "

lol

Frankly, I'm not seeing this "freefall" in rents. They're still insane.

I was just visiting a friend in Windsor Terrace -- which in my opinion has always been one of those "second tier" Brooklyn neighborhoods (not exactly Brooklyn Heights or Park Slope, but certainly not Crown Heights or Bushwick) that virtually anyone could afford.

At least that's the way it USED to be. We walked past a local RE office with pictures of available rentals that were absolutely ghastly. $1500/month for a shitty-looking (even in the pictures, the place looked filthy) 500-square foot one bedroom with no kitchen (it had one of those crappy pullman all-in-one stove/refrigerator/sink units on one side of the living room).

Other apartments were similarly priced.

Seriously?? This is the best that someone making nearly $80,000 per year can afford in New York City? A tiny shitty walk-up without a kitchen deep into Brooklyn??

its all relative.

Yes, it would be cheaper to rent anywhere else in the US, including SF, LA, or Boston, like-for-like. But you would not get NYC charm!

w67thstreet, interesting, I'm going to check out that listing. I had seen some of the listings before in my To Fee or Not to Fee post.

"Its all relative."

Actually, it's NOT all relative.

My point is that wages have remained stagnant pretty much since the mid-'90s, when I first moved here. In 1995, for $1500/month you got a one-bedroom in a doorman building on the Upper East Side.

That shitty one-bedroom with no kitchen in Windsor Terrace could be had for $600/month.

Rents have roughly DOUBLED since then, but our incomes have certainly not.

I was trying to hold my tongue on your comment, but dammit I can only hold it so long!!!

I don't know about Windsor Terrace, but the UES has 180 1BRs available (with "must have address" to get rid of crap/repeat listings) below $2000:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rentals/ues-manhattan/rental_type:frbo,brokernofee,brokerfee%7Cprice:-2000%7Cbeds:1%7Chas_address:1

Here, for example, is a 575 sq ft 1BR in a doorman building that is asking $1800, which I picked semi-randomly to be roughly the same as your mythical $1500-a-month-for-500-shitty-sq-ft-in-Windsor-Terrace on a per square foot basis:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/600326-condo-400-east-70th-street-lenox-hill-new-york

And note, it's not even a particularly good price: it's been sitting on the market for 6 months, 3 of them at the current price.

My friend just signed a new lease on a 1 BR in FiDi. No fee.
Top building, high floor, all amenities (including free gym).
And 2 free months...
Who said offers and give aways are over?

"Actually, it's NOT all relative."

Of course its relative. you made it relative to wages. I made it relative to what it costs to live in other parts of NYC. Relative to living in the same sized unit in Meatpacking, Soho, or Columbus circle, that place is cheap. Relative to living in an apartment in the flats of Beverly Hills or in Pacific heights in SF or on water in Miami proper - its relatively similar, cheaper, and more expensive, respectively. Its always relative to SOMETHING.

rents are going up but i don't know if it's the spring or LL's are going to try and push for higher rents...stuytown one bedrooms were 2250 now they start at $2500.

julia, you can't use stuytown. they release whatever they have that they can charge the most for. only after they get rid of the more expensive units do they trot out the lower-priced ones so the prices are set by availability not the market, unless the market falls below the stuy town rents, which is possible but hasn't quite happened yet.

AR, why do they do it that way?

there's a formula they use to determine the maximum allowable rent per unit. as long as they have excess supply (and i strongly believe they do) and the rents of the most expensive units are not above market rate it makes sense for them to fill the more expensive ones first, and only fill the cheaper ones later.

also they are using the cheaper ones as a means of enticing tenants to switch from long-term RS apartments into those renovated ones, which currently i believe have the RS expiring in 2017, maybe? so depending on what happens in the RS laws, in the building, in their lives and plans, etc., the tenants who voluntarily give up their RS apartments for slightly more expensive but renovated units may have made a very good decision, or a very bad one.

Got it, thanks.

Rental market's decline has everything to do with the fact that renting is not a natural economic state. Families are meant to own their residences. A feudal system is not the American way.

You do recognize the importance of mobility in times of high unemployment, no?

"Rental market's decline has everything to do with the fact that renting is not a natural economic state. Families are meant to own their residences".

LOL. Complete nonsense, at least in an economic sense. Anything can be financed, and usually is. If you own, you finance via a mortgage. If you lease, it's a little like leasing a car, or doing a sale-leaseback on a corporate space: You do away with your initial payment, do away with the sales proceeds you'd receive at the end, and make roughly the same payment all the years in between. Renting or owning, you can occupy the exact same space in the exact same way.

As for "not natural", please 'splain, Anthropolgist Dabulls. Modern humans emerged somewhere between 250,000 and 50,000 years ago. We began recording sh!t about 12,000 years ago (thus making it "historical"; everything else is pre-historical). Did those proto-humans who emerged out of Africa "own" their little patch of grass, or the game they hunted, or the lands they farmed? Did the early humans who lived in Jericho, or Babylon, or Chatal Hoyuk "own" their little mud huts? Or did they do what all mammals do - eat, drink, poop, make little humans, with ABSOLUTELY NO REGARD to artifical concepts like who owned the land they ate, drank, and pooped on? The eating and drinking and pooping and reproducing are what is "natural" (i.e., they occur in a basic state of nature). Borrowing 80% on a 30 yr mortgage? Neither natural nor unnatural. Completely irrelevent, actually.

I really do not know what happened 250,000 years ago.

Families thrive in stable environments. Renting is merely temporary. A mortgage with a financial institution is not the same as being beholden on a daily basis to a landlord and having limited control over your residence for the long-term.

Two points:

1)Regarding the thread title, I just renewed my rental as is, but only after the landlord asked if there was anything they could do to improve the place, so we will probably be getting new AC units for each room. (no cost to us)

2) DaBulls - you have been reading way too many NAR powerpoint presentations. I know people who rent their entire adult lives and somehow still thrive. The landlord tenant relationship you allude to may be out there, but my experiences have been that my landlords have always valued having a me as a tenant as I pay promptly, don't cause any trouble and report problems so they can take care of them. Dunno if this is the norm, but it is funny what a little mutual respect can foster.

Full disclosure: I'm not totally against owning, but not at todays prices relative to what I pay in rent. Its like night and day.

Lecker, if you remove government price stabilization, do you still know many people who rent their entire adult lives? And are these people with families?

DaBulls...If ownership is so great, then why did we just have a housing bubble? How'd ownership work out for all the people in foreclosure right now?

I think you answered your own question. When is there ever a bubble in something that people don't prefer?

stunning. that was a breathtakingly lame comment. come back when you're capable of some real analysis.

What is your qualification or interest?

By the way, how can you be both lame and breathtaking?

You go first. what's your qualifications?

You have an interesting writing style.

What's my qualifications? Lame and breathtaking?

Why are you an owner who is against families and ownership? How can you claim to be a family person and be so cavalier towards others?

The black tulips market ------ address that bubble, DaBulls.
DaBulls, I bet you also strongly advocate regular fall planting of spring bulbs. And cleaning out gutters. And you probably wear an engagement ring!]
DaBulls, you are a paragon of conventionality! Here's a biscuit for ya, stugatz!!!!!!!

I'm glad you've recovered from 10 minutes ago when you cried out for help.

you have an interesting morality style. to assume that renters are somehow committing themselves to a lower qol. and creating instability for their families. it would be far better clearly for those families to pay more of their monthly income to be slaves to a bank holding their mortgage in an uncertain market.

nice, very nice.

Nice is when families are secure, stable, and have greater control over their destiny. I'm sure you agree as you are an owner.

DaBulls - I'm a simple man, so I don't understand what point you are trying to make about price stabilization (government is making owning artificially higher by propping prices and not allowing them to fall?)

But to answer your question, I will share a personal story which I rarely do on these boards. When I was growing up, my grandparents lived in the house next to our house on a modest farm. When my grandparents died (I just started college), my parents rented the place out as it was impractical to sell just one part of the larger farm. Anyhow, the family they rented it to were not ideal renters as they were loud, didn't mow the lawn, yadda, yadda yadda. After my parents nonrenewed that family, the next family that moved in stayed for over 20 years and are still there. I think my dad may have raised the rent once on them. I remember when their children were little and now they have grandkids running around the yard. By all measures, they seem very happy.

To be fair, in this instance, that rental relationship is less about making a lot of money and I think my dad just wants someone to help take care of the place (that house is over 100 years old) which the neighbors enjoy helping out. The rent covers the modest costs and I think that is really all he expects. My dad may not be getting the best market rate, but he likes his tenants and treats them like neighbors not some second class citizen. He has nothing to gain by treating his existing tenants crappy as he still remembers what bad tenants were like.

Still, I think that perception of DaBulls is a real theme on these boards. (how could a renter possibly be happy?) Is there some expose that I didn't see that characterized renters as second class citizens? I know renters don't have political representation via a NAR type organization, so maybe there actually is some kind of propaganda portraying renters like that.

It sounds like you have a good family. Congratulations. But your family's tenants rolled the dice. They ended up with good owners, but they are still not in control of their destiny after 20 years. And your family previously rolled the dice and came up negative before they found these good tenants. This situation isn't natural.

yes I own a huge lovely money pit. It is a second home. I RENT in the city and as I just signed a lease for our seventh year I hardly think I've been submitting the family to turmoil. I've owned four times and this rental is the longest we've stayed in one place. But keep working on your stereotypes.

"Families thrive in stable environments. Renting is merely temporary."

LOL. Then you should start lobbying the Family Courts! Because 41% of children are now born to single mothers. That's right, they're BASTARDS! http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/05/13/spinsterhood-bastard-children-are-our-future/

It gets worse: Of the 59% that ARE born to married people, about 50% of those marriages will end, so in total about 70% of children (41% above and half of the 59%) will grow up in broken homes, typically without a father.

So, stability ain't gonna be there no matter what your living situation!

Lecker said: "DaBulls - you have been reading way too many NAR powerpoint presentations."

I disagree vehemently with that statement.

There is nothing in Dabull's posts that serves to indicate he can read...

"Nice is when families are secure, stable, and have greater control over their destiny."

WHAT COUNTRY YOU LIVIN' IN THAT HAS STABLE FAMILIES???

The UK rate of bastardy is even higher than the U.S!

I mean no offense to any of you whose mothers were not married to your fathers. I'm sure you bastards understand...