211 Elizabeth Street Nightmare

Jerry, what is your deal?

laurensophia, surprised to hear that about the building - it did seem to be of top-notch quality, and while EVERY new building will have problems, this is clearly off the charts bad. Have other buyers experienced the same? Surprised there hasn't been a peep about this elsewhere.

Lauren, all pre-construction is delivered this way. Sucks, but you're not alone. Just make sure your attorney is SUPER aggressive and get the developers to rebuild everything if they have to. Your lawyer is the only way you're going to get out of this alive, so just get litigious and in a year or so you'll be living in a great apt! Pre-construction buyers in the Meier towers, the Plaza, and many others had these problems also.

Sorry to hear about your place Lauren. I did some work on one of the units in that building (cosmetic/electronics) recently. The GC (mind you they gutted the entire place after purchase) said the building was redone pretty crappy during the conversion. Its a shame because it shows well. Just wouldn't know what's under the curtains until you live there or have a professional come and take a look. It is horribly overpriced overall though. I hope you negotiated well!

Apologies, my posts look a bit crazy with Jerry's deleted musings anymore.

Anyway, laurensophia, please keep us posted with what happens in the building. Recent closings show very little negotiation wiggle room for buyers, even in this market, so it'll be interesting if this is widespread and really dents the building's desirability.

Wow, not even the tiny grey ink!

This is a dynamic thread, it keeps growing and shrinking

Gobri, your post sounds misinformed since the building in question is not a conversion but brand-new construction.

It was full new construction? For some reason I thought they kept the shell and reworked the inside. I apologize if i'm wrong on that as I was only in at the tail end of the job for a couple of days as they moved in. Regardless the quality of the deliverable was poor according to every contractor on the jobsite. While I believe the owner was renovating for other reasons (taste), what the contractors found while gutting surprised everyone (craftmanship was the only example that was shown to me personally but was told about other instances).

wow. so sorry to hear about all the issues. this is pretty amazing to me, I have followed this building from the beginning and walk by it all the time and - from the outside anyway - it looks great, definitely one of my favorite new buildings and is in a terrific location. also, the floorplan of the penthouse is just ridiculous.

but yes, those prices were very, very high and I am just amazed that they would have done such a poor job. I guess it just goes to show, there are always a lot of problems to be worked out in new construction, no matter how much you pay.

This is why real estate consumers need protection against shoddy developers. When I built my house, the builder had to warranty the finished product for a year. Is it the same in NYC?

If true, this is a very bad sign for this building.

I wonder what the land value is ... and how much it would cost to demolish the building.

Why would someone so heavily invested in a building come here to trash it?

To be honest, unless the OP comes back to give more detail, or this is corroborated elsewhere, I'm a bit skeptical, as you'd think something as significant as the flooding and consequent destruction of an entire apartment in a small, notable building, would have made the blog rounds by now.

It will all get fixed. I remember when there was an issue with a North Moore development and the Perry/Charles street towers.

nyc10023 - but the Perry/Charles street buildings were so high profile, both the buildings and the owners that the travails (indoor waterfalls from the windows, etc) were very public and in lots of media. (And didn't Martha Stewart's daughter live in the N. Moore Street building?) Don't know if this building can count on that kind of publicity to get things fixed, though I certainly hope so, for the OP's sake.

This is why you buy pre-war people! Yes, it has its own issues, but we have now owned two pre-war units and have experienced nothing close to the issues the OP claims. Sad about the building, love the NoLita area...

It looked great online. Prewar has a diff set of probs.

"This is why you buy pre-war people! Yes, it has its own issues, but we have now owned two pre-war units and have experienced nothing close to the issues the OP claims."

THANK YOU.

New construction these days ... no matter how "high end" ... is cheap-assed, to say the least. What's even more troubling is that contractors cheap out STRUCTURALLY, hiring illegal alien day-laborers who don't know a 2x4 from a head of lettuce.

Have we forgotten about the huge issue with the Trump complex on the Upper West Side that could have resulted in a catastrophic collapse? Trump was in such a rush to throw those buildings up that his contractors bypassed a critical step in the curing of the concrete holding up the supports.

It took a lowly city engineer conducting a routine inspection to find that ALL the concrete supports on the fifth floor were mixed improperly -- and as a result, were capable of holding only one-FOURTH of the usual weight. Most troubling, however, was that the building was already TWELVE stories high! The damn building was a ticking time bomb, thanks to haste and cost-cutting.

If a developer like TRUMP is pulling this crap, you know it's being done elsewhere.

No thank you. I'll stick to radiators, window air conditioners ... and rock-solid construction.

Unfortunately, it's never really that simple. Each building is different - do your homework and you'll minimize the risk and surprises. And until we get more info, I wouldn't be so quick to condemn 211 Elizabeth - it's one anonymous post here, without any follow-up to this point.

Yes, but New York pre-war is garbage also. Pre-war in NYC is dilapidation. Crap HVAC systems, old electrical networks, small windows. Pre-war apts are just large special assessments waiting to dent your finances. You have to do your homework on any apt.

"Pre-war in NYC is dilapidation."

Only if it hasn't been properly maintained.

Even then, it often means old plumbing and wiring, crap hvac, subpar kitchens. There is no way around it: for anyone who has lived anywhere else in developed countries, the building standards and infrastructure can be surprisingly poor, even in supposedly fancy Park Avenue coops. All choices have their downside, it's a losing position to argue otherwise.

"Even then, it often means old plumbing and wiring, crap hvac, subpar kitchens. There is no way around it: for anyone who has lived anywhere else in developed countries, the building standards and infrastructure can be surprisingly poor, even in supposedly fancy Park Avenue coops."

Spoken like someone who's apparently never been inside a prewar Park Avenue co-op.

You can always be counted on for saying the wrong thing. Why would I make a comment if I hadn't seen any?
Come on, think before you type, try it.

it didn't take long to learn that the tenant complaining about the building is a real estate broker (my friend works at her firm) that handles some of the shittiest rental listings in town. this is clearly someone that has no class nor a sense of what is best for her career. new buildings have issues, always. it sucks but sometimes you have to put up with some issues until kinks can be ironed out. the developers of 211 eliz are serious and well-respected developers that know what they are doing relative to others. it sucks to go through the pain but when all is resolved you will have an amazing apartment in an amazing location. also, i quickly learned that the apartment was purchased under a trust, which leads me to believe that this is some whiny rich bitch with nothing better to do because her rental listings aren't moving...

This building is beautiful.

happyNny, are you saying that a flooded apartment that ruined furniture, curtains, walls, etc. is a "kink" or that the OP made the story up?

...and are you saying that if you have money, it really shouldn't matter if the construction was faulty?

no. i am saying that life is not perfect. i live in a building that has had a broken elevator for the past 2 months. every morning me and my family walk up and down 9 flights. it sucks but we love our home and know it will be better soon. also, i am a GC and i know what construction teams are like. the are often made up of good guys that aren't really the brightest bulbs on the tree. still, they are good people and are skilled. still, mistakes happen. in old buildings, things go wrong too. i work hard and have a short fuse on these issues...

happyNny, your fuse ain't that short if u can stomach walking up & down 9 flights of stairs for 2 months. Jesus. Like I said, pre-war apts in NYC are dilapidated.

"Lauren, all pre-construction is delivered this way. Sucks, but you're not alone."

I disagree, but it has to always be considered a risk of being delivered this way.
In this instance, a building getting 2000 psft in this market has no business being delivered this way.

look at the pictures and article on curbed. looks like the poster may have had a point?

And a little investigation on acris determines it is likely unit 3e, bought back in august.
6e was bought in august as well. Unless 6e forgot to shut off a tap and went to europe for 6 months I'd say houston we have a problem.

Curbed
"statement from developer Robert Siegel of 16 Prince Street Development LLC:
This buyer has been actively and recklessly disseminating false information. The targets of her vicious and relentless smear campaign have included the developer, staff, and the building’s selling agents. The implication she has wrongfully sought to spin is that potential purchasers of apartments at the 211 Elizabeth will be exposed to unsafe and uninhabitable conditions."

"The building, its amenities, workmanship, and its design make 211 Elizabeth one of the premier luxury condominiums in Manhattan."

Boo Hoo Hoo, it is likely this buyer is pissed because she expected premier luxury remedies with the premier luxury price she paid. Who wouldn't be yelling at the developer,staff, and the building's selling agents?

"The sheer irresponsibility of these claims is not without serious ramifications for which this individual will ultimately be held accountable. Staff members who have come in contact with her have complained about her erratic behavior which, over a very short period of time, has escalated from being merely an irritant to objectionable and reckless. In light of this, we are taking all necessary legal measures."

If her complaints are accurate,I wouldn't request a jury trial if I were you.

I must admit I was a little skeptical of the initial post.

As far as I can tell the lengthy list is:

Leak in the bathroom ceiling from above (it's not clear if it was from an overflowing tub or failed plumbing)

Crooked fireplace. (standard walkthrough punchlist item)

Non specific problem with the floor. (standard walkthrough punchlist item)

Busted pipe. We did have a stretch of cold weather that could have burst an improperly insulated area of plumbing. (shit happens)

If your intention is to make this your home I would worry about alienating everyone in your building. These are the people you are now relying upon to help you. Yes it sucks, but they're just problems that will get fixed. Instead of turning up the acrimony by taking a litigious stance, I suggest you take a step back and hire someone to oversee and expedite the repairs on your behalf (although the horses may have already left the barn..) I just can't make up my mind if you are a pampered whiner who has rarely dealt with anything beyond a hang nail, or if you are a gutsy woman who refuses to get pushed around.

Nice apartment by the way. Would love to hear more.

spinnaker, couldn't agree more. Fortunately, I had very few issues with my apartment, but the one major problem was the tiling in the second bath - the wall was cracking right down the middle. I was firm but as polite and accommodating as possible, which resulted in a complete redo at no cost to me. When you compare this to another resident in the building who has done nothing but complain loudly and made repeated threats (and apparently been rebuffed repeatedly on repairs), I think it's easy to see which way to go.

Don't necessarily disagree with you guys but we don't know the true facts yet.
And there is a burst pipe claimed.If true it's hard to keep your temper when your entire apartment is flooded and basically ruined.

I'd be more than pissed too but it seems to me the only result of her actions is to make a bad situation worse. Again, the motivation of trashing her own building here is lost on me.

Again, agreed but we don't know the facts. It "looks" like she's in since August. It "looks" like she had problems since August. We can't know the manner in which the tone of exchanges happened.
But we didn't read any public complaints on the building from august until January. This very well could be "last straw" I've had it with you.
And now each side is posturing with behavior claims.

I would certainly treat my exchanges on my problems with the developer as if addressing a noisy upstairs neighbor. (yielding higher ground)
But I'd also expect a smaller punch list and quicker action on a 2000 psft apartment personally.

i haven't walked around down there in awhile, but is this the same building that used to be covered in graffiti and, at night, each window was lit up? i was always intrigued with this building, if in fact it is the same one.

avery, I think you're talking about 11 Spring, which is a little further down the block, and a condo conversion which recently sold I believe (only 3 units, may have been combined, not sure). Also beautiful, and also crazy expensive.

Thanks bjw2103. It is indeed 11 Spring. I appreciate your clarification.

I've known Mary Ellen Cashman for years and she is a professional of complete integrity. In disparaging Mary Ellen, this woman laurensophia discredits herself entirely. Laurensophia's words should all be read with the utmost skepticism if she can find fault with Mary Ellen's professionalism.

Does Mary know how to mop? If I sold somebody that shi%^ hole I would at least be over there helping to mop up the mess! You know what I am saying? I mean she collected around 60 thousand on the com. for that mess

Sam - ROTFL!

yeah i think i'm with lauren on this one.. poor woman.. if it's that bad that she's on here jeopordizing future sales in her own building.. she must be like an animal backed into a corner... a wet corner...

if i paid 1.5 for a 780 sft place that looked like that, I would have lost it much more then posting some negative stuff on a blog

glamma
Bingo

Whatever rave reviews some of you want to give the developer or the agent, their past behavior your reflecting on is based on a 10 years plus cronic "times are good" scenario. I've seen unbeleivable changes in people when "times are bad" or difficult, and relying on a cache of behavior or personality to judge this woman's predicament in an absolute way is foolish.

And all she said about the agent "and have even encountered verbal abuse from the the real estate agent on the site, Mary Ellen Cashman" is likely(and maybe unwise) the result of laurensophia voicing issues of the building to prospective new buyers. While still having to sell half the building and still trying to get 2000 psft, it's not hard to imagine even Mother Theresa spewing off some choice words.

I'm not saying I would handle this the same way, but I understand it.
Demonizing the buyer is also the wrong tact by the developer.