why don't you just buy a home

jump
don't look
jump
don't ask questions
jump
don't be such a pussy
jump

julialg,
most home purchases are a huge financial decision.
Stick to what you know best...manning that suicide hot-line.

oh gee maybe i could buy at $500.000 and sell at $750,000 great quality of life.. enjoy your speculation

Stop worrying? Are you seriously going to tell someone not to worry about the largest single financial commitment they will ever make? We got into trouble for the exact reason you're pushing. Because people "didn't worry" and didn't see any risk in what they were getting into.

What brokerage do you work for?

no people got into trouble because they over leveraged and speculatde... 20% down in your comfort zone no bubble no problem

buy with 20% down live with your family for many years and stop buying into the cycle of trading up and speculation... quality of life

other great advice from julialg.
1)michael, just dangle the baby for a few moments.. the fans will appreciate it;
2)I demand those bomb xray machines be banned.. you can see the outline of a penis;
3)You're just the co-pilot, go ahead txt away, take some nyquil and you set the speed alarm;
4)Let me just implant that last 7 embryos, this way we'll make sure you'll get at least 1;
5)Just ask him to "time/withdraw" it, you can never get pregnant and 0% of aids;
6) go ahead and scream like a madman bf the primaries.. it'll be so kewl!;
7) Let's go over the top dad, $7Billion and we get to manage it!;
8) I'm gonna take my irish carpentar income and RE winnings and double down in the new ski resort development in Saudi Arabia!;
9) Who needs seatblets?;
10) smoking makes your penis grow;
11) That girl's adams apple is huge.. but she is so pretty in pink;
12) Its' not the stuck accelerator, ppl should learn to turn the steering wheel;
13) Britney Spears makes million, here is a microphone.. .you don't need school.

w67thstreet on the wrong side of a trade makes you really bitter

all the drones got sucked in at the top...you will be puking at the bottom soon

agree!!

w67thstreet when your ready to sell at the bottom notify me first.... i will scoop up your sale

sounds like w67thstreet is really hooked... i know your in nyc re.. i can feel the panic

SOMEBODY bought at the wrong time.... can anybody figure out who it is.........let me guess a a a a i know W67THSTREET

OK, so I buy my $1 million 2BR today with $200,000 down @ 5.5% interest. Market declines another 10% (only lost half my equity) and in 10 years when I'm ready to sell, interest rates are at 7%, so my buyer can't afford to borrow as much as I did by putting down the same 20%. To avoid a total doomsday scenario, let's say that prices have kept up with inflation at the very least (say 2%), so combined with the interest rate adjustment, my apartment is now worth $935,000 give or take. Add 6% brokers fee and I pocket $878,900.

This doesn't even consider RE Tax and maintenance increases, nor does it include my original closing costs.

This is coming from someone who is of the mindset you are arguing for. "Quality of life" That's exactly why my wife and I are in the market to buy.

But your argument is simply offensive. "Stop worrying about everything" Don't lecture people about how they'll be just fine if they put 20% down when the FHA is insuring loans at 100% LTV in a falling market.

Typical OPM speak...

nyc10007 i am not lecturing, just think of real-estate for the average person as a home not a commodity;always buying and selling and renovating trying to make money...

This is too hilarious. Julia, are you a real estate broker? because I can't otherwise explain the
"stop worrying about everything. it is always difficult to buy.."

Though, NYC10007, you're forgetting the equity accumulated while paying your mortgage over 10 years, which would be roughly $155,000. (Which isn't to say you wouldn't have been better off renting for the duration of your scenario -- that would depend on maintenance on one hand and comparable rents on the other -- but the accumulated equity is a decent chunk of cash.)

I couldn't agree with that point more, but you've got a whole lot of unraveling to do before that basic fundamental could possible become status quo. We're a mobile society, people don't settle down the way they used to, and in this consumer-driven, HGTV world that we live in, our idealistic view of "real estate = home" is unlikely to be unilateral ever again...

Miette, good point, I was assuming that rent/buy savings would put your equity position in basically the same place.

NYC10007 to the point!

NYC10007 -- agreed. The homeowner in your scenario doesn't have to endure losing their downpayment (they get $235,000 out at the end), but that is not to say they come out anywhere near net ahead.

i didn't say don't worry at all; i said stop worrying about EVERYTHING.. NYC is extremely expensive and it is true it is quite difficult to pull the trigger and buy... but the bubble was created because people were buying homes to sell and getting financing with none or very little equity.. they treated their home as a commodity and got burned and now they are blaming everybody BUT themselves.

(In other words, if you take in net $878,900 when you sell, and your mortgage is now paid down to $645,000, you pocket $233,900.)

I think julialg is another name for ivanthebroker from last year. Seriously, that guy was hilarious.

NYC10007 - Two things on your calculation:

1. You will need to take out 2% for taxes when you sell.

2. If you are projecting 2% increases yoy after the initial 10% drop from $1 million to $900k, wouldn't it sell for more than $935k after 10 years? Not sure if I missed something on this.

juliag, if you started your post with the last comment you made, I think you would have received a lot more support. I have found myself gradually agreeing with you more and more. Kind of like payments on a 421a abated property...20%, 40%, 60%...OH WAIT!! Good thing I didn't use that in my example... could have seriously added some fuel to my argument if you're talking about buying a property in the early years of a tax abatement.

Waverly, the $935,000 is based on adjusted value for interest rate going from 5.5% to 7%. Same payment today on $900,000 @ 5.5% allows you to afford $768,000 @ 7%. Granted, I didn't increase for inflation on the monthly payment, but considering wages haven't gone up much (I think real wages have actually declined?) in the past 10 years, I think that's a fair assessment.

nyc10007 you convinced me. Now i'm really worried...... I am renting forever; so what if my kids won't have any roots. At least i will have money when i die..

Touche. Back to your original point...stop worrying about everything. As I said, I agree with your last statement.

If you want to buy, go in with your eyes wide open and don't look at your home as a monetary investment. That's what I am trying to do...more than anything just very discouraged with all the overpriced crap that I've been seeing on the market. Hence my need to rationalize why I'm shouldn't be in a hurry.

Thanks for helping me procrastinate...

Thanks...long day and couldn't work it out the same way.

Gee golly. all your sophisticated numbers have made me realize i must leave all these really difficult home purchase decisions to the experts... Please let me know when it is safe to buy and i could make a nice little profit.

Maybe I missed something, but didn't I just fall on my sword and agree with you?

julialg, stop worrying about your rootless kids. Feeling bad about not owning is so 2007.

i posted that before you agreed with me nyc10007

now go away... did you say that to all your wives

Julia, admit it, you were the Bubble's fuck buddy. Go ahead, buy a 1200 sqft 2 bed/2bath in a new dev condo for $2mm that won't suit your family in four years...No problemo.

hey rhino i don't buy tops i'll leave that to the experts

"stop worrying about everything. it is always difficult to buy.. stop treating a home as a commodity... that's how people got in trouble "

All true... problem is your conclusion is off.

Stop worrying, yes. Its always hard to buy, yes. A house is not a commodity or an "investment". Yes.

So stop worrying and just RENT...

Overpaying for something can destabilize your family. Its not market timing when you realize that free money blew the rent/buy relationship out of whack. I think our national experience suggest care need be paid to this matter. Jane, I mean Julia, you ignorant slut.

I wonder if you even believe what you're saying.

julia.. i beg of you to stop... that arugula comment hit me pretty hard.... it's been awhile since someone's brought up arugula in my life.. .still painful memories from the chef salad incident.... pls stop....

"I am renting forever; so what if my kids won't have any roots. At least i will have money when i die..."

So, now the logic is "yes, I might lose a bunch of money on RE, but my kids will be better off".

Really now? Is this the best the bulls can come up with?

carolSt with better typing skills.

At what age do you think a kid can understand the difference between an owned and rented apartment? I suspect one day my daughter will applaud me for dogmatically renting from 2002 to 2012, similar to the way Buffett refused to chase valuations of tech stocks that he couldn't understand.

It always degenerates with people who are always sure of themselves in their limited kind of way.. I just wanted people to look at apartments as homes not commodities...Then you all wouldn't have to suffer so much from the effects of the bubble. goodnight

That's interesting....so what got people into trouble in real estate was thinking TOO MUCH not TOO LITTLE. That is a fine conclusion Missy. Exactly wrong.

don't mind w67, i think he's still bitter that his dad kicked him out of the family RE firm, despite the couple of properties probably gifted to him for a smooth exit.

Listen Rihno the mentality of buying and selling and speculating got people in trouble; not fastidiously crunching the numbers and having some sense of market timing

hol4.. i'm just glad you didn't pile on with other bitter greens.. like bitter melon... terrifying really......

There is a big difference between buying to flip vs. paying 25-30x rent because, ya know, you're kids care if you own or rent. Roots? More like a fucking noose. Listen, you might be right if there was never a securitization boom and credit bubble, but there was...and prices got stupid. Buyer beware, not be-ignant ostrich as you suggest. I mean your advice is just moronic.

rhino still looking up fastidious in Websters

rhino didn't i say some sense of market timing

> More like a fucking noose.

Agreed. "Daddy, daddy, thanks for being underwater so we have to stay in this finig one bedroom till I have my sweet 16."

;-)

In the end, if renting gets you a bigger/better apartment, exactly what are your kids complaining about again.

"dad, this school district is too good, I'm not top of my class anymore". "gee dad, thanks for all this quality lighting and elbow room"

and for that, he gets the big piece of chicken.

the bottom line, julia, is that many people still can't afford to buy a home that's large enough for the next 10 years. so they shouldn't buy, even if they can squeeze into something almost OK. they should be grateful that rents are so low, and that in this time of economic turmoil they don't have to worry about the lack of mobility in the event that unemployment strikes too close to home.

if, however, you can easily afford to lose your downpayment and costs (and don't care), or you don't need a mortgage, or you have plenty of excess cash, then i agree with you. go ahead and buy.

Your logic is so painfully bad. Don't be a flipper. Worry less. Buy without regard to history or valuation. We're 25-30% into a decline and your takeaway is that rent/buy over-analysis is what got people INTO trouble? Seriously? Seriously?

i'm going home to use that rope... you guys are brutal

"if, however, you can easily afford to lose your downpayment and costs (and don't care), or you don't need a mortgage, or you have plenty of excess cash, then i agree with you. go ahead and buy."

So if you don't need to worry about money you don't need to worry about losing money? Genius! :) Thanks Jules!

Please do.

@w67thstreet re top 13: Hilarious!!

Rather than use that rope, pay ask for a new dev condo. Make a home there for your kids. The halls may be sparce for a while, but you're in it for the long term.

"@w67thstreet re top 13: Hilarious!!"

Agreed -- one of you all-time bests.

"if, however, you can easily afford to lose your downpayment and costs (and don't care), or you don't need a mortgage, or you have plenty of excess cash, then i agree with you. go ahead and buy."

So, this is the new bull logic?

If you don't care if you lose money and have cash to burn, then buying is a great idea!

My friend did this. He bought a 2000 sqft 4-bed in 2006. He has no mortgage. He wanted what he (and his wife) wanted and that was that. They cannot be forced to sell. This is about as usual for the rest of us as tits on a bull. Your rental return should be able to match your mortgage rate, otherwise you are paying for appreciation which history proves is bad.

i didn't use the rope just reading about all you genusis who bought the top...

HEY RHINO your friend we all know you bought the top

Could have happened, but didn't. If it did, I sure as hell wouldn't be here telling people to think less. How does someone like you not only celebrate thinking less, but encourage others to do so? You are really not doing much for the reputation of silly bitches.

If anything I am a convert. I almost bought, for reason of nesting and the idea of settling my family. As it turns out, it might have been the most destabilizing thing we could have done. The math is important. The suburbs may be a better bet for us. And although I'd have another down payment behind the one I would have lost to the market, it still would not have been fun. And for what? Is a coop really property to begin with? Its a fucking joke and you are still gagging on the misconceptions.

If Rhino bought at the top, why would he be cheerleading on the way down?

The folks pissed they bought at the top are doing things like rationalizing the new negative data, calling folks "doom and gloom", etc., thinking that it will somehow turn the market around.

Yes I'd be sulking. All I am saying is its not bad to want to nest...its just dangerous at or shortly after an epic bubble. At least when I almost bought rents were rising. A falling market with falling rents...I dont see how this tempts.

Agreed. I like the idea of nesting, its just hasn't been worth the cost in years...

The issue is that nesting has never been such a bad idea for such a long time. At least in the burbs, you can suck it up. However, that's not even always true. My cousin and her husband bought a starter house in a nice section of Port Chester at peak. I don't know if they have a down payment to replace the one they lost to the market. Their first kid is almost four. They are in a shitty position. Private is likely too expensive for them.

I agree that people should stop worrying and just rent, NOT buy if you are in a position to "worry", should the market go down 10% (which is my conviction) or worst case like Japan never ending decline. I would postpone it for a while until I am confident that I will be okay evenif I lose value in my property. The prices are NOT going anywhere for a while. And if you are worried about intrest rates sky rocketing. trust me, the gov't can't raise the rate drastically until we are out of this slump, which won't be for a while (unless they want to creat another crisis) And little increments of rate increase will bring down the property values anyways - it's always a wash (people have a certain fixed range of cashflow, and higher interest rate calls for lower loan amount and property value for them to afford the monthly payments.) People buying right now, are people who really don't care where things go.

"People buying right now, are people who really don't care where things go."

So again, don't buy unless you have money to burn. Thanks.

PS: The government doesn't control the treasury yield. If that rises, then mortgage rates will rise. Its not a wash, not at all. Its not about what you pay per month, its about the difference between the purchase price and the selling price. Buy against artificially low rates and you fuck yourself.

This has been another edition of OWNED.

oh screw it...
I buy what ever.

you buy something you like in your price range and you enjoy life.. All you people waiting for the perfect trade will never buy anything.. You will be old thinking i should have bought when i could..Ask the people who bought the top in 1987 on park how they feel today...$650.000 FOR THREE BEDROOM I AM REALLY SUFFERING

listen you idiot RHINO if you have to move in 5-7 years don't buy.... But if you want to live in nyc for a long time buy.

""People buying right now, are people who really don't care where things go.""

Well, as long as the bulls finally admit that owner-occupied RE isn't an investment....

> Ask the people who bought the top in 1987 on park how they feel today

I love how bulls now have to go back to 1987 to show why buying is a good idea.

I love it!