For PreWar Historians- NYT Article

I was watching an old movie with a bunch of friends and we were discussing this very thing.

It seems that pre-1970 or so, there was just more to "do" in New York than there is today. People got dressed and went out, and had a variety of entertainment venues to pursue: dinner clubs ... arcades ... coffeehouses ... jazz clubs ... dance clubs ... live shows ... even hanging out at the Automat, where coin-operated machines provided you a hot plate of food freshly prepared in the kitchen behind the little glass doors.

Today, really, our options are almost as limited as any American suburb: restaurants, bars, and multiplex movie theaters.

Yes, there's Broadway and the Met, but let's face it, unless you're rich, even for New Yorkers, those are really limited to special occasions.

Both of my parents grew up in Brooklyn and I was recently looking at some photos with my mother of when they were dating. They used to go out to nightclubs all dressed up and they looked so elegant although my mother was only about 18 at the time. Of course, women didn't have the same freedoms from discrimination in the workplace, etc. so there were definite downsides to the pre early 1960's or there about (just watch an episode of Mad Men). You're right about the Automat which my father used to go to-although I think it was basicaly food from vending type of machines, probably cafeteria style food. I was also interested in the second part of the article about the Bing and Bing apartment buildings on East 73rd Street.

"(just watch an episode of Mad Men)."

LOVE Mad Men! I'd love to bring back the 1960s-era workplace. Women take themselves WAY too seriously these days.

***

"You're right about the Automat which my father used to go to-although I think it was basicaly food from vending type of machines, probably cafeteria style food."

No, it was hardly the processed and packaged chemicalized crap we get in vending machines today. It can be likened to today's diner food ... but it WAS fresh, hot or cold food stored in little heated or cooled glass compartments, behind which was a full kitchen constantly replacing and replenishing what's taken out of each little compartment.

Matt, it's certainly no hardship watching Jon Hamm on the screen each week. The men's fashions are very becoming, but the women's outfits always look so uncomfortable.

And yet the women look SO MUCH BETTER than they do today.

Here's a workplace fashion tip, ladies: Regardless of your body weight, if you have more than 20% body fat, SPANDEX IS NOT YOUR FRIEND! You may think that little 2-piece clingy sweater thingy is cute, but we really don't need to see your muffin-top jiggling around just above the waist of your slacks, which incidentally are a size too small. Either contain it a girdle, or cover it up with a jacket. Or don't wear clingy thingys.

Same thing goes for your legs. COVER THEM please -- this isn't the beach. Slacks, hose, whatever. I don't care about whether the pilates is paying off, it's just as inappropriate for me to see your bare legs as it is to see Joe Schmo's.

Matt you need to get out more, NYC is hardly limited to 'restaurants, bars, and multiplex movie theaters.' All of the pre-70s options that you listed are still viable options:

'dinner clubs ... arcades ... coffeehouses ... jazz clubs ... dance clubs ... live shows ...'

Although you did get one right, 'hanging out at the Automat' probably isnt as much fun as it was back then. But do you think anyone really misses the 'hot plate of food freshly prepared in the kitchen behind the little glass doors?!?'

There are also tons of other activities that you didnt mention. Theres a plethora of museums, playgrounds, parks, lectures, historical walks, massive concert halls, professional sports, etc... Broadway is also much more accessible now than it was in the old days, thanks the existence of Off Off Broadway shows and the TKTS booth.

You should try picking up a Timeout NY or a NY Magazine, two great, modern innovations, created to help manage the overabundance of local stuff.

And Matt, call me deranged, but I for one have no problem viewing ladies legs. Perhaps you work in a monastery?

Ah Matt, nothing like you piecering observation (and my lousy spelling) to welcome me back to SE.
Are you sure your kitty bit you because s/he was startled or maybe it was something you said? (Why do I suspect you have purebreds?)

Amen to the Jon Hamm idolation...that is a much finer representation of the male human than I ever saw in 20+ years at agencies. And I was one of those kids who played hooky at "Playland" and many less beign establishments "up the duece" (42nd Street), although that was in the 70s well removed from the "Mad Men" era.

Nicely tailored as the men were, so much of those days is best left in the past. Much "Madison Avenue" (where very few agencies are found these days) drama hasn't changed much in 50 years but much of the change has been for the better. Not only are women slightly better paid and regarded but I really doubt any of my gay colleagues would want to change places with Sal. (Yes, they could still lose their job--as we all could--for not sleeping with the Client but at least they don't have to stay further back in the closet than a 20 year old party dress.)

I happen to agree with Matt about too tight clothes (not that I'm 100% innocent or that its exclusively a female problem)...but I DRAW THE LINE at hose. Most of the year in NYC its not an issue, bare legged is crazy but from May 1 to October 1, sorry. I sweated the panty hose thing for years along with floppy bow ties and white out. My question to Matt is does he still wear a tie to work everyday and how would he feel if someone told him he had to?
(On the other hand we can be TOO casual...I knew I turned a wide corner into middle age when I was absolutely horrified to see bare legs, no ties, and even shorts...at a funeral!)

"Theres a plethora of museums, playgrounds, parks, lectures, historical walks"

Not at night.

***

"massive concert halls, professional sports, etc... "

That's a wash -- they've always been here. But now they're more expensive than ever.

***
"Broadway is also much more accessible now than it was in the old days, thanks the existence of Off Off Broadway shows and the TKTS booth."

No it's not. It's still beastly expensive, even WITH the TKTS booth ... and provided you have all day to wait in line for a show you don't really want to see.

>Women take themselves WAY too seriously these days.

Men who want to send women back into the early 1960s and tell them what to wear take themselves WAY too seriously these days. (Whatsamatter, feeling threatened by equality?)

But I still agree with you re: formica and kitchen appliances.

>>"Theres a plethora of museums, playgrounds, parks, lectures, historical walks"

>Not at night

Parks and "historical walks" are just as open at night as they were in the 1960s. The Met museum, and other museums, are open in the evening -- which they weren't in the 1960s.

I'd also bet that, adjusting for inflation, seats at the Met Opera now cost LESS than they did in the 1960s.

"Parks and "historical walks" are just as open at night as they were in the 1960s. The Met museum, and other museums, are open in the evening -- which they weren't in the 1960s."

Get real.

"Parks", "historical walks", and "museums" are not an option after 9:00 PM.

Matt, first you complain about having less to do in NY now than pre-70s...when given numerous examples why that is wrong, you change your complaint to less to do at night? Simply based on demographics and crime rates, Im sure NYC nightlife activity is far more robust today than in the 50,60s etc. And its prtty easy to come up with numerous examples of totally new activities that occur at night now that did not in the 50s. I mean you could head over to the old Hells kitchen (which is now safe, inhabitable and enjoyable), walk a few blocks further West to a Gentlemens Club, something that you probably would abhor but did not exist in the 50s. Perhaps better suited to your puritanical tendencies, try taking a walk on any of the vibrant 'new' downtown neighborhoods like the Lower East side one night, I think even you will be pleasantly surprised by the breadth of activity and energy. Few cities in the world can match it today - or 50 years ago.

>>"Parks and "historical walks" are just as open at night as they were in the 1960s. The Met museum, and other museums, are open in the evening -- which they weren't in the 1960s."

>Get real.
>
>"Parks", "historical walks", and "museums" are not an option after 9:00 PM.

Yes, Matt, that was my point. After 9 p.m. they're just as open as they were in the 60s and just as optional for those who don't want to enter them.

Nostalgia bubbles, anti-spandex decrees, and our shared love of formica aside, none of the female characters in Mad Men could walk through the NYC streets unaccompanied and feel (or be) as safe as an unaccompnied woman in 2010.

"I mean you could head over to the old Hells kitchen (which is now safe, inhabitable and enjoyable), walk a few blocks further West to a Gentlemens Club, something that you probably would abhor but did not exist in the 50s. Perhaps better suited to your puritanical tendencies, try taking a walk on any of the vibrant 'new' downtown neighborhoods like the Lower East side one night, I think even you will be pleasantly surprised by the breadth of activity and energy. Few cities in the world can match it today - or 50 years ago."

"Gentlemen's Clubs" were around back then, too.

Please give me examples of "things to do" at night in this "city that never sleeps" that doesn't involve a bar or a restaurant.

Matt, what's your question here? You want lists of movies and plays and operas? Addresses for clubs? Lists of streets to walk down? Enumerations of park names? Phone numbers of bowling alleys? The address of the Apple store on 57th street where you can go at 3 a.m. to surf the web?

Are you really complaining that you can't find anything to do in New York that doesn't involve food?

Are you really claiming that life ain't what it was like in the imaginary good old days?

Or are you just sad that you, like the rest of us, are getting old?

"Are you really complaining that you can't find anything to do in New York that doesn't involve food?"

Or alcohol.

That's right.

I think it's less of a statement about NYC than the changing preferences of a different generation.

It's so funny the direction that these SE discussions take sometimes. I posted this article because of the section on the Bing and Bing buildings on East 73rd Street and instead the discussion is all about the first part of the article.

>>Are you really complaining that you can't find anything to do in New York that doesn't involve food?"
>>
>Or alcohol.
>
>That's right.

And presumably you'll continue to whine about your own sense of boredom no matter how many times people tell you about things to do in New York that don't involve food and drink. And that proves ... what, exactly?

Lobster: ha, yes, let's bring this back to buildings. Me, I think walking from one end of Broadway to the other after dark, looking at buildings, is pretty great. Thanks for posting that article, too.

"And presumably you'll continue to whine about your own sense of boredom no matter how many times people tell you about things to do in New York that don't involve food and drink. And that proves ... what, exactly?"

It proves you can't answer my question.

>It proves you can't answer my question

Huh? You didn't read this paragraph?

>You want lists of movies and plays and operas? Addresses for clubs?
>Lists of streets to walk down? Enumerations of park names? Phone
>numbers of bowling alleys? The address of the Apple store on 57th
>street where you can go at 3 a.m. to surf the web?

Matt Matt Matt

Again, I'm convinced you don't even listen to yourself most of the time. Some of the things that my friends and I, all typical NY-ers, have done recently:

- watched live surf guitar bands at Ottos Shrunken Head
- watched a live cabaret show
- watched a comedy act
- took scuba lessons at the local Y
- swam at chelsea piers
- played ping pong at that HUGE underground sports place on Christopher St
- listened to some live country music in Penn station
- took a cooking class
- previewed an auction
- went to a free gallery opening
- and a friggin' gazillion other things that normal people seem to be able to find, unlike you

So, quit worrying about your potential neighbor's finances and get out of your sad little lonely world.

And Re the Gentleman's club, didn't you state previously that you're a single gay male? If so, you're having waaaay less fun than all my gay friends.

- watched live surf guitar bands at Ottos Shrunken Head
***sorry I'm over 30
- took scuba lessons at the local Y
***closes at 7pm
- swam at chelsea piers
***closes at 8pm
- played ping pong at that HUGE underground sports place on Christopher St
***closes at 9pm
- listened to some live country music in Penn station
***You're kidding, right?
- took a cooking class
***these things always happen during the day or start no later than 6 or 7pm. I'm still working.
- previewed an auction
***happens during the day

And Re the Gentleman's club, didn't you state previously that you're a single gay male? If so, you're having waaaay less fun than all my gay friends.
***I can't imagine why your gay friends would want to see naked women.

Matt, I confess I'm still confused about what your complaint might be. Before you were arguing that NY ain't what it used to be, and now you're complaining that there's nothing here that interests you after 9 p.m.

Is there some place in the US or in the world that you think is more fun-filled after 9 p.m.? I don't mean that in a "then-why-don't-you-MOVE, bozo!" way. I'm just curious.

There was an article in the NYT recently about how Paris no longer has a night life. Maybe that's happening all over, but I'm suspicious. I can remember the over-40 set complaining in the early 80s that New York night life was dead. I was suspicious then, too.

"I can remember the over-40 set complaining in the early 80s that New York night life was dead."

Indeed.

As I initially mentioned, NYC nightlife pretty much ended in the '70s.

>As I initially mentioned, NYC nightlife pretty much ended in the '70s.

Yes, you did indeed mention those halcyon days of hanging out at dinner clubs, coffee houses, jazz clubs, and the automat -- before you complained that New York social life centers on food and drink and you stopped making sense.

And you really think things were better in NY pre-Stonewall?

OK, I think I get it.

Ummmmmmm, the last time I checked, New York City had dinner clubs, arcades, coffeehouses, jazz clubs, dance clubs, live shows.

I appreciate the concern which is been rose. The things need to be sorted out because it is about the individual but it can be with everyone.
========================================
albert pinto
Brisbane real estate

I think that nyc10023 is probably correct when she mentioned the generational aspect of how people spend their time. When my mother (who's 70) goes out with her girlfriends, they always complain that everything they do involves food- mostly going out to restaurants either before or after seeing a movie or concert. (no Matt, I know that you're around 30, not 70). And if you're younger than 35, there are many things to do which don't involve food or drink, even getting together to play sports or video games. There are plenty of salons in NYC where you can get a manicure at 3am if you want or 24 hour gyms where you can work out at any time.

http://newyork.timeout.com/articles/student-guide/77299/24-hour-city

walking the streets of manhattan is entertainment for me...i lived outside the state and coming home has been a great adventure..there is nothing like new york and it is definitely not like the suburbs.