Want to make an offer -- hire a broker?

I can't wait for the replies to this one. I'm getting the popcorn ready. Congrats on finding a place and good luck with your potential purchase. I hope it all works out well for you.

I'm with Vintage65 on abstaining from the broker question :) As for Zillow, is this a NYC apartment? I've never even considered checking Zillow for NYC condos and I just did on the places that we're considering and Zillow is all over the map, sometimes really under and (usually) really over. Luckily, you have Streeteasy and ACRIS for real comps, so there's no need to rely on something like Zillow.

I'll make a stab at it! Nothing too violent or gory.
1- do I need a broker? It depends. If the property is a coop or if you are new to the blood sport, I would say yes. It's even more important to have a good, solid real estate lawyer who was NOT recommended by the broker. There is a poster here called Keith Burkhardt who has a new business model that includes a commission rebate to the buyer, I think it is worth checking out, even if you are buying a condo.
2- Zillow is notoriously inaccurate. I wouldn't even consider it in the city. You can do comps yourself, certainly you can ask the seller's broker to justify their asking price, but that's where having a trusted broker would pay off. In any case, it's still a buyer's market, you definitely have time to do research. Don't go in the negotiation blind.
3- Streeteasy can give you recent sales in the building, if the unit you are looking for is one of a line, it will give you a range. Post the listing here, it will get mauled by the re bears.

Thanks for the comments. Do you have Keith burkhardt's info?

The place is a townhouse and the houses around it are all identical. So, it's not a condo, but I feel like the surrounding units are sufficiently similar that I can make direct comparisons. Unfortunately the place hasn't been sold in 40 years so there isn't much data there -- the last time the deed was transferred, in 1970 or thereabouts, the price recorded is ten dollars. (Seems low, even for 1970 dollars!). So, sadly, streeteasy didn't have much there.

If the townhouses on the block are similar in size and style, check what has sold in the last 3-6 months. You can then adjust for condition. If not on the block, look at the neighborhood recent sales. Ideally you want to find a recent sale that is as similar as possible in terms of condition, type, stories, width, etc.
I don't have Keith Burkhardt's number, but I am sure if you search on this site, you will get his e-mail and number.

The townhouses are similar, but there haven't been too many recent sales. A place on that block -- nicer than the one we're looking at, i.e., more recent renovations and what look to be a few more amenities -- was listed at $965 at the height of the market. A couple of places were listed at $1.1 or $1.2 briefly but all those listings are now inactive and with no sales as far as I can tell. All of the Zillow estimates, as I mentioned, are in the $650-750 range.

nyperson: General information about The Burkhardt Group is available at http://www.theburkhardtgroup.com/about.php.

The commission rebate model is explained at http://www.theburkhardtgroup.com/services-and-fees-c14358.html

I met Keith through Streeteasy, and I work with him as a sideline to my day job in financial IT.

Zillow's Z-estimates are a great idea, but the available data can't currently support accurate electronic valuations of most NYC apartments. The time will come, though.

I would get a broker but it should be someone who specializes or has experience in townhouses. Any suggestions out there?

Zillow is useless as a predictor of value. The closing prices generally accurate but they got the address and block number wrong for the apt I recently sold so their info could be wrong.

If you are not a veteran of buy/sales in NYC, I would strongly suggest a broker. The only reason to forego a good broker is to try and save part of the commission for the seller which would hopefully fall to your bottom line as a discount. But unless you really know what you are doing and are a great negotiator, you are not going to get the discount/ lower commission. And you could lose the property to someone else who has expertise on their team.

Btw, I am not a broker. I have rarely used a broker for my past purchases and sales. The few times I have used a broker it has been because they have had excellent information/knowledge that I have not had access to. A townhouse for under1 million sounds like an outlier (not prime) area. Most brokers have an area of expertise and you might want to find someone who specializes in your area.

Yes -- it is an "outlier" area, Washington Heights. Shot in the dark, but anyone know of brokers who are familiar with that area? (I don't want to just do a Google search). I noticed Burkhardt seems to be more of a Greenwich Village are outfit -- would he know upper Manhattan too?

Actually, Keith lives in Washington Heights. I don't know how familiar he is with the townhouse market there. Easiest way to find out is to call him.

Nyperson, although I am only an anonymous poster on a RE discussion board - consider working with West81st. He has a very good reputation, as does Keith.

Zillow is useless, particularly for NYC.

Am I wrong in thinking that since the seller is essentially paying for the broker fees, it is to your advantage as a buyer to find a broker to represent your interests in the transaction? There are many other more knowledgeable people on this board, so maybe they will weigh in.

The impression I got is, if the seller's agent has to split his fee with the buyer's agent, he'll be less flexible on the price. (6% of 900k is $18k; if he's going to lose half of that, he may be less flexible on the price or other stuff?)

Nyperson, at the end of the day doesn't the seller determine what price s/he is willing to accept for the asset, not the broker? Brokers are responsible for advice on pricing and marketing the property and they have two incentives: getting a deal done, and getting that deal done at the best possible price.

Hard to see how being the only unrepresented part of the transaction serves your interest.

Fair enough. Don't get me wrong, I basically agree with you. My main issue was that we aren't dying to buy a place right now -- all we want is an agent to negotiate for us on this particular place only; if it doesn't work out, so be it. In part, I wasn't sure if an agent would even take on such a limited job.

But, if one is willing to do it, I suppose I would get one.

nyperson: Feel free to give me a call to discuss this with the the understanding you will have no obligation to use my services. I would love to discus the market up here and give you some insight to life in the Heights as I have lived here over two years with my wife. Depending on your time frame and the usual factors involved with deciding to purchase, you need to be extra cautious buying up here.

Regarding your question about the listing broker being less flexible regarding the price if you are represented, generally not the case. All the listing broker is thinking is more commission :) It is the seller who will review all offer and decide what is acceptable.

The rebate model is a way for you to guarantee added value to your purchase.

Either way best of luck!

Keith

Oh yeah; Thanks Maly and West81 for the referral and nice words!!

Keith

Keith, you may help increase your level of comfort in this process by boning up on some basics of good negotiating if you feel lacking knowledge in this area, or if you are a more seasoned negotiator you may brush up on some fundamentals. This thread should help get you started: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/8657-negotiating-better-fundamentals-of-effective-negotiating

For my, a broker can be an effective tool in a negotiating strategy if used correctly. I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be turning the process over completely to a broker given that the purchase is one of the largest you'll ever make and you should be as involved in and as educated as possible about the process.

One of the screwed up realities of NYC RE is that any broker you use will technically actually be working for the seller--NOT YOU. The broker's fiduciary duty flows to the seller who is ultimately the one paying the broker. That doesn't mean you shouldn't use a broker, but it means you have to know HOW to use the broker. For example, 100% candor between you and "your" broker is not a route I'd go in terms of disclosing you true time frame, upper limit of what you would pay, the fact that you'll die if you don't get a given property, etc. Check out the thread above, and let us know how this all ultimately works out. Good luck! Hope you get what you want for the price you want.

I haven't met Keith, but I have met W81 who is a broker at Burkhardt. W81 is extremely knowledgeable about the neighborhoods and valuations in the areas he covers. And, he is an honorable guy which in my experience has not been a prevalent characteristic in the brokerage industry. If he says that Keith would be a good bet in your chosen area, I personally would trust his judgement.