Unpublished final sale price?

There are ways to disguise it, but no real way to hide it as far as I know. The information on street easy comes directly from city filings which are public record. You could artificially deflate or inflate the purchase price by offering to pay for sellers closing costs or requiring seller to pay your closing costs. You could also buy through an LLC to keep your name off the unit, but that wouldn't keep future buyers from finding out what the purchase price was.

Hey. I've own this restaurant. And I keep getting vermin and roaches. The worst part is I keep getting these health dept violations. Short of killing th inspector, is there a way to keep this information off the Internet? Thank you.

Signed,
lemming who's afraid his actual actions may affect his future financial position.

How do you think the price you paid will affect the future price? Would you rather have it be the case that you appear to have paid more than you actually did?

w67th -- I know you never pass up a chance to insult a buyer, but the OP probably wants to keep the sale price of the internet because he is getting (in his view) a really good deal, not because he's afraid he's paying too much. Think about it.

That said, about_to_buy, you're probably out of luck, but ask your lawyer. It's possible that one could theoretically make a confidential treatment request, but I'm sure you'd have to have a good basis for it.

Miettte. Extra t for emphasis. When I got a 'deal' for my Porsche, I put up a sign that said ' bought from over-leveraged town idiot!'

Hell if I got a deal it would mean it would be 'closed' so who cares who knows. Fick id throw a SE party and put my sale price on my front door and have a modernist painting done for my bedroom. Id get a boner every time i walk in the bedroom seeing the sign 'when lemmings faltered, I held FIRM!' flmao

it sounds as though the OP may be thinking of selling sometime not so far off. not a really good scenario for today.

unless it's in a very small building with little turnover your price won't matter that much in the 5 or more years range. if you get an unusually good deal that may affect comps down slightly, but likely not that much. and then the comps that are out there will eventually overtake your comp. or not if the market keeps declining.

interesting question to post on a site that claims its mission is to increase transparency in sales information.

He's worried about resale, jackass, like he said. Would you hang a sign around your neck when you were reselling that bargain Porsche announcing how little you originally paid for it?

It's not the price of the boat; it's the motion of the ocean when you take it out to sea.

AR, i was about to say that... Street easy is the best thing that could have happened to NY so at last buyers can have comps to refer to when they shop for housing, so they don't get fvcked over by some broker or House flipper like so many have been over the course of the 1st 10 years of this century.

miette, jackass? if he's that worried about resale he shouldn't be buying now. it's now a matter of record, not only on SE but on ACRIS. why should his sale have some special treatment to prevent him from having people know about his sale, compared to anyone else's?

You're right that there's quite a bit of transparency in the RE buying/selling market now. And with ACRIS, you can find out the amount of the mortgage on a unit as well. I've seen a few sales where the apartment has been purchased as a LLC or other corporate entity, but as jhockle states, the amount of the purchase and when it was purchased is still evident. And another thing is that the purchase price can be found by searching the company of the selling/buyers brokers in many cases.

miette, i now realize you may have been calling w67th jackass. not that i agree, but i no longer take the response personally.

aboutready -- was not calling you a jackass (was calling w67th a jackass, and now I regret stooping to his level in any event). Totally, totally agree. I was just pointing out, after w67th called OP a lemming and suggested he was ashamed of his purchase, that OP's concern was probably precisely the opposite. But I love the transparency of ACRIS and Streeteasy and don't think anyone should get special treatment -- at least without a very good basis (e.g., I would imagine that judges and prosecutors would have a good basis to request that the City keep their purchase records off ACRIS, or to at least to redact their names, for security reasons -- though I'm not sure if this is actually possible under the FOIL statute or other applicable reg).

Right, w67th, knowing the seller's basis has no psychological effect whatsoever on a buyer.

But, as I explained above, OP is probably SOL. And I don't feel bad for him one bit. I just understand why he's asking the question.

i cant' believe you think what ppl paid has any bearing on anything. You are kidding, right? Who taught you economics? He should have his tenure revoked. FLMAO.. .tell me again how what you paid has any bearing on anything.. I'm sure some idiot bought a picasso for $1. So should i pay him $2? FLMAO... dudette, i'd love to meet you in person, so I can show you how I'm laughing my azz off....

Gee I wonder what that was who said what you paid has no bearing on current market.
Calling you a jackass is too kind. You are as much of a waste of space as hfs.

maly, maybe it's personal, but i disagree. i wouldn't possibly attempt to speak for w67th (nor could i if i wished). i think the point is that the market isn't very current looking. it's forward looking, and backwards looking etc, depending. which is why the op is right to be nervous.

Is it possible that About to Buy is not being honest with us? Maybe, he doesn't want existing unit owners to know what he paid, because it's so damn cheap and they'll all give him dirty looks in the elevator for ruining their RE appreciation party. Or, maybe he received part of the $20B I-bank bonus pool, (which is really a pass through from AIG, hence my money) and he's trying to avoid being labeled for conspicuous consumption. Living vicariously, I'll go with I-Bank for a $12M 3Bedroom at 15 CPW.

I've asked my attorney about buying in the name of an LLC and he said that most co-ops won't allow it (don't know about condos). However, buying in the name of an LLC only permits you to keep your actual name out of the records. I don't know how you can keep the price out of the public record.

"keep the sale price"

I don't think he gives a crap about his name, it's the "PRICE" that worries him. maybe he over-paid and doesn't want daddy to know... or it's a gift for his mistress and doesn't want the other mistresses having a cat fight, except in their underwear w/ lots of oil. -shrug- who the f knows..

maly, who you talking about willis?

w67, I usually find your comments very funny. Your last one is funny but what happened to you when you were posting the previous comments.

300_ ... but she called me a jackass first ; )

Sorry. I see.

w67: If the buyer is worrying of registering a low buying price, he is worrying of the anchoring effect. You may (rationally) laugh at the concept that the previous selling price has an effect on the current selling price but, due to our predictably irrational behavior, it does have an effect.

Btw, why are transaction prices public? I love it, but I find it strange. I do not know how much my neighbor paid for his new car, new boat, or for his new suit. The IRS may know but it is not something that can be considered public information. Why housing is different?

Pirot.. how do you know if your RE taxes are "fair" ... and hence we all need to know what all our neighbors paid for their RE..

Is there another website where I can see sale prices other than streeteasy? because not all sales have their pries disclosed here. Even when I log in, it doesn't show the sales prices for all sales. For example, look at two northside piers. I can't see the prices at which apartments were sold there. Can anybody else see them? why are they not showing? where else can I see them?

w67: from my own limited understanding of RE taxes, they seem completely unrelated to the transaction prices of the apartments.

Also, when I buy shares of Google, nobody really knows how much I paid for them (ok, IRS knows). When I buy shares in a coop, why should anyone know?

am i wrong that price will be recorded in acris?, and that the only way to conceal something would be to conceal the buyer identity?..

"but she called me a jackass first"

Right, w67th, because it usually takes real provocation before you call someone a whore or "f'in idiot" or whatever juvenile insult will make you "giggle like a little girl" in that particular instance. You can dish it out, but apparently you can't take it!

And of course the buyer benefits by knowing more rather than less about the seller's position. Putting aside the anchoring concern mentioned by Pirot (which I'd be surprised to hear you discount, given that you think all buyers are irrational lemmings, at least until that shining day when they will all stand up and refuse to "catch a falling knife" because interest rates are ticking up 10 bps a month, LOL), a buyer might quite rationally be influenced by the seller's basis in his or her bidding strategy -- the basis can help give the buyer a sense of who's susceptible to high-pressure tactics and who's just dipping their toe in and might not be worth bothering with, or who might place a greater premium on a quick, all-cash deal.

WBfirsttime, go to www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/jump/acris.shtml or http://www.propertyshark.com/mason/nyc/index.html

I don't know, but there must be a way to hide it. I am desperate to know how much these people just paid for this apartment but it isn't listed.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/468118-condo-92-warren-street-tribeca-new-york

I saw this back when it was listed for resale at 4.4M (just for kicks) when the original owners paid 3.4 for new construction. I went back to an OH after the price was reduced but still thought it was overpriced.

W67th: For the record, knowing what the owners paid definitely had an impact on how much I would have paid. Of courses I still knew it was overpriced, but it was nice to be able to tell the broker how insulting it was.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/957639

Thanks AR. I don't know why that wasn't coming up when I did it! Sort of proves a point that it DOES actually matter knowing what the owner paid, in my humble opinion.

Mack, it usually takes anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 years for data to make it to ACRIS. typically, it takes approx a month. you should have your info within a few weeks.

to the OP....every co-op and real estate broker in the city would love to keep those figures 'confidential'. But we live in the age of information and transparency, so I'm glad to say the days of unequal disbursement of information are over.

Besides, apartments trade on comps and individual seller urgency, not cost basis.

correct on the lag for public record to CATCH the sale..and for the record, the quarterly reports we all listen to for the most up to date sign on current state of the market, only use public record sales. So you can imagine the lag between when a contract signed (which catches the current state of market) and the quarterly reports we all listen to.

mack, yes, but unless somebody intends to flip, why does it matter to the owner? a really good deal should be somewhat explainable (divorce, death). and over time unless it is a very unusual unit or in a really small building with no turnover it shouldn't matter.

and brokers will give you the info if you ask. just say please tell me the listing and selling history of this unit (line in the building, etc). back in the day i always knew the comps. it just wasn't as easily available.

you didn't pull it up because they changed the identification on the unit. i can't tell you how often i'm seeing that these days.

That's interesting AR. Were you/are you a broker? I just closed on an apartment myself after a very long search. I did not find brokers to be at all transparent in the process, in fact, I found a lot of double-speak and reaching when coming up with comps. Maybe it was just the lack of inventory or the sort of desperate market of the past year, but it was not realistic. I'm very happy to finally be settled... now if I can just get off this site!

oh, and why are they changing the unit identifiers these days? I assume it is to hide the sale info, no? What is the point of hiding said info if it isn't because having that info can influence current/future sale prices?

mack, many but not all brokers like to keep things as hard to figure out as possible. i don't think its necessarily so as to influence price, as it is to keep buyers and sellers dependent on the brokers for information/misinformation.

of course today's price affects tomorrow's price. but in the longer term an apartment should trade at what it's roughly worth. distress sales will move the market, but trying to hide your purchase price is useless as your neighbor one flight up or down may sell any day and undercut even your price, in which case having your price visible only helps you. it's just a stupid game. any decent broker should be able to explain an anomoly to purchasers. if you're selling you should ask your broker what he/she plans to present as an answer to such a question. and hiding a price when there is evidence that a unit has been on the market and sold is even more dumb, because it leads to mistrust.

i'm not a broker, but mine is excellent.

Miette. My 'over reactive' whore calling was pointing out your unnecessay 'jackass' comment. As to your 'who' cares who started it, I want you to think about this. The holocaust would not be the holocaust if 50 yrs prior a bunch of Jews took out 20mm Germans and gassed them to death. Do u hear me now miette. And seriously why did u call me jackass on this thread?

Re: the sale at 92 Warren, the broker has nothing to do with recording the sale with the city. The city recorded it as #6(5E), which Streeteasy's matching thingie couldn't link to the #5E listing. Our own pattern-matching, just looking at the building's list of sales/listing, makes an easy match where a machine can't. So no conspiracy; just different people at different stages rendering things differently.

w67thstreet
about 16 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse Hey. I've own this restaurant. And I keep getting vermin and roaches. The worst part is I keep getting these health dept violations. Short of killing th inspector, is there a way to keep this information off the Internet? Thank you.

Signed,
lemming who's afraid his actual actions may affect his future financial position.

cant anyone else see what a completely overbearing asshole this guy is?

Miette. I've been trained by the best in Econ/finance. I don't need you to esplansglish to me how irrational re is. My 'lemming' calling is nothing more than calling this out, I'm sorry ur rding comp is shit. So op asks a lemming question, my restaurant example highlights the stupidity of withholding info in any mkt and the lack of 'in' price to mkt.

Sorry you get so wet for me. Now go away.

about_to_bait - leave the title in previous owners name and give a 'firm' handshake while clenching butt cheeks.

nwt, who provides the info to be put into the system? the attorney? maybe the buyers didn't want an easy match. if they go to resale it won't show up on SE unless one of us sends the tireless SE staff an e-mail alerting them to fix it (which i usually do, but not always).

Great question, I must admit I had been looking to see if there was an answer in the responses.

Yes, published prices do effect you when you sell, however what it is worth at the time you sell it is the main point. If you have the expertise and spent a lot of time looking to find an under priced property, then additionally add value, and in the next strongest growing area, that heavily out weighs a buyer making a simple blanket statement of .." apparently prices have gone back to 2007, I am not paying more than that".
An obvious example would be some apts in 15 CPW Example; However you see them all over the place.
Apt 7H just sold for $3,162,000 it was bought Nov 2007 for $1,800,000
Apt 35D Just sold for $21,500,000 it was bought for $11,620 at the beginning of 2008 for $11,620,000
Good luck with your purchase.

Gabrielle904 - congratulations - you did just that with your own property!

aboutready, yes, one of the party's lawyers. I guess whoever's in charge of collecting and coughing up the money the city collects on the transaction. There's lots of how-to-file stuff on the DoF site I've never looked at.

Can we PLEASE not talk about 15CPW? Kinda rankles as I was thinking about buying a 3br there to flip, and didn't do it. Yes, yes, I know, playing with fire.

w67th, this is getting surreal. Do I seriously have to go all hfs on your *ss and collect quotes to remind you of all of the various instances where, when you weren't even being addressed, you've said outlandishly rude and often vulgar things to me and others on this board? One of the last times you did so to me SE even went in and deleted your post, it was so bad -- and it wasn't due to any request by me, I might add. The fact that you're up in arms about being called a jackass when you behave like that is jaw-dropping.

That said, I shouldn't have stooped to your level. I apologize to the others on this board for calling you a jackass. But not to you, sorry.

w67th. trained by the best, lounging in SE forums. yr profs/peers must be proud.

matter of public record... sorry

This is the kind of thing the OP would like to avoid:

The Harrison 4H
12/14/2009
Previous Sale recorded for $1,850,000.
12/16/2009
Listed by Prudential Elliman at $2,700,000.

Buy an apt, wait two days then put it on the market for 50% more and then hope that no one looks at the purchase price and realize you are an idiot. But if you hide that purchase price, no one will know you are an idiot and someone-- an idiot-- might just buy it from you.

Overpay on the transfer tax as a gift to the city. The interior documents will reflect the lower actual sales price, but as far as I know, the main page price is derived from a calculation of the transfer tax. Assuming arguendo that this is still true, most people will be too lazy (and I don't think the screen scraper or other versions of reading ACRIS used by the "information" websites) are capable of reading the sales price on the RP-5217NYC form buried in the middle of the Deed docs.

ph41, wow you are observant, I did feel fortunate. Thank you I appreciate complement.

Welcome back 30yrs

miette's version of germany's apology for the holocaust.

'we are sorry to the world for gassing / murdering millions of jews and a lot alot of gypsies, homosexuals and other ppl with birth defects etc bc we believed we were a purer and better race, this apology is for all the world except for the actual millions we actually killed, we just don't want you to think less of us German people'. Heil Hitler!

Your turn miette.

Jimmy/hfs bringing back an old handle, neklok. Flmao

In any case your argument is you can lounge on se for years, but it's okay cause you weren't trained by the best and you have no 'peers'! Flmao. Do you type out both sides of the keyboard or just in real life? Go you on your borker income. Just know the minute you stop open housing the $ immediately stop. What you need is a type of annuity, but on your borkers' salary it'll take your entire life just to live like your clients but then you'd have 0 savings. You can always tell your wife to work harder, big pimping.

30 yrs. that's brilliant. I bet your tax returns are a thing of beauty.

w67th, likening himself to a Holocaust victim. Lovely.

Once again, people like 67 and awhoreready think that everyone likes them. Criticism is cognative dissonance. So if one person criticizes, well, there can only be one, all of the critics must be the same person. The ultimate in arrogance.

Miette
1 day ago
w67th, this is getting surreal. Do I seriously have to go all hfs on your *ss

Wow, now I've become a verb! Amazing how my stature and following are increasing while
aboutready remains in the toilet bowl, entitled to everyone else's hard work.

Still your turn miettte. Flmao

What happened to the Porsche?