Boutique RE firms- Question for Brokers

I work for a small firm in Brooklyn, and most of our buyers come via word of mouth. Interestingly, we have had an influx of clients who read about us on yelp. And there was a story about our company on a website called sheepless.org, which brought in a few folks. Most of our seller clients are either South Brooklyn locals, or people with whom we have established relationships. We're rebny members, so as pointed out in your other thread we can show most anything, and we share with most anybody.

I'm curious about what you found unsatisfactory in your experience. Why do you think a boutique company would have been preferable? I know why I work for one (kindness, independence, flexibility and generosity), and think I have a grasp of what we can do differently from the bigger firms (offer better terms and more individual support, particularly for complicated transactions). But what was your experience?

Tina
(Brooklyn broker)

Lobster - the small Manhattan firms advertise in the NY Times (for West side, for example, Klara Madlin), as do the large firms- so keep checking out the print ads.

Sorry - don't mean ads, per se, just their listings.

why don't you look at any firm with an office on the ues? larger firms will have more listings, and most people who work in that office wil be very familiar with the area. smaller firms =less listings. or else they wouldnt be small

I have used Pari Passu Realty Corp to sell and buy co-ops in Manhattan for past 7 years.

Robert Meehan
Licensed Realtor
Pari Passu Realty Corp.
T: 646-383-5905
C: 646-369-0189
Email: rmeehan@paripassu.com

I would think Barbara Fox might be a good person for you to talk to.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

front_porch and ph41, you are both incredibly kind and helpful people and everyone who reads SE is fortunate that you both share your considerable knowledge with the community. BTW ph41, I tried to make an appointment to see Apt. 2B at 172 West 79th (Hopkins) and was told that the apartment is already in contract.
Tina, I recently had a conversation with an acquaintance who told my husband and me about his experiences using a small boutique firm downtown and it sounded quite a bit better than my own situation. The qualities that you described above (better terms and more individual support) sound very appealing. As I mentioned in my earlier thread, I am pretty happy with my broker, but I wonder if I could have been a little happier. I've found the process of searching for an apartment much more complicated than I initially imagined and wonder if working with someone from a less corporate environment might have been a better option. Thanks for your wonderful detailed response.

I think that the concept of "a small boutique firm which specialized in the UES" is a bit of an oxymoron. It's like going into a car repair shop that specializes in "foreign cars" (this used to be meaningful but that time has long since passed). "The UES" is in itself SOOO big a market that a small boutique firm "specializing" in it doesn't mean much.

Now, if you want a small boutique firm which specializes in Park and/or Fifth Ave Coops over $10 million, that's a different story. But 'specializing' in and of itself - in my view - requires a smaller universe (sort of using the Statistical / Venn Diagram definition of "Universe".

Dave Goldsmith
DG Neary Realty

30years, very happy that you've returned to SE and please don't leave us again.
Is there any association or online resource which lists small or boutique RE firms by neighborhood? It seems that one only learns of these firms by word of mouth or as ph41 suggests, checking apartment listings.

I don't know if this helps at all:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/trd_three/images/77571/Top_Manhattan_boutique_firms.pdf

Thanks 30years, it is a big help and seriously, don't leave us again. LOL!

There is a pizza place in the village with this big sign in the front window : "Specializing In All Types Of Pizza".

Let me add a very strong second to Lobster's s elation at "seeing" you again 30 years. Your insight and unmatched knowledge combined with literary aptitude and sense of humor has been sorely missed, especially in an increasingly tension filled SE.

LIZ Agreed!!!! We missed you 30 Years. I 'm planning on coming from Hartford next week to the SE meetup and hope to see you there. I'll pay for your alcohol.

yes, it has been a bit tense.

i've been doing a very interesting review of some people's contributions here. you'd be stunned at how much of the nastiness in terms of my presence are from one poster (or i should say MANY posters, purportedly one identity, sometimes they even talk to each other, they often respond with the wrong identity). it's fascinating.

If an agent or a small firm has been around a long time and specializes in a particular neighborhood, maybe they would have more access to "pocket" listings? I'm thinking of apartments that show up as sold without ever being listed and have only been shown to a limited number of potential buyers. I think those are called pocket listings.

Sorry, I'm not a broker.

I think we're talking about two different qualities one expects from a boutique firm - the first relates to a finely tuned expertise (i.e. 30yrs example of "a small boutique firm which specializes in Park and/or Fifth Ave Coops over $10 million"), the second to a specific flavor of customer service (i.e. lobster's interest in a "less corporate environment").

As a person who happily works for one of these small firms, I propose that these may be the *only* two advantages we offer over the larger agencies. (I don't care how innovative your little company is, its website is never going to be better than Corcoran's.) As such, it's worth examining what you - as a buyer or seller - really want from the experience. As lobster points out, no matter how savvy you may be, real estate transactions are by their nature complicated. They can be intense and emotional. And you get to choose who you want by your side as you go through this process.

Everyone wants the best deal possible. But with whom who do you want to seek that deal? Do you want the person you know has access to the best "pocket" listings in the area? The person with the best command of the macro- and micro-economic trends in the industry? The person who has a nice warm late-model car to drive you around in? The person who helps you explore neighborhoods you hadn't considered?

I think there are as many reasons to go with a large firm as there are to go with a small firm. But I stress that the choice is personal as well as professional, and we should be able to acknowledge that without embarrassment.

Tina
(Brooklyn broker)

quick question for the brokers on this thread (or the experience of others with brokers' pocket listings)

realistically: what % of the inventory (at the sub $3mm level) is made up of "pocket listings"

I hear this from clients all the time, thinking they could get a heads up by working with multiple brokers, with the belief that each has all these pocket listings that noone else has access to ... I have to say, I'm very skeptical that this can make a significant difference at any level other than the ultra lux market

thoughts?

I agree. I don't even think it's worth worrying about. What can anyone do--work with every single agent in the entire city so as not to miss out on any potential unlisted listings?

I think the "pocket listing" thing is hyper-local, or very market specific.

Hyper-local: My company is based in South Brooklyn, and at any time I have a couple of Red Hook properties that haven't come to market yet for some reason but are on the horizon. So yeah, the seven people who want to buy in Red Hook (hi guys!) will probably cross my path at some point, and I may be able to show them a place earlier than they might see it otherwise. Doesn't mean it's going to result in a sale, though!

Market specific: I imagine there is a Leslie Garfield buyer - someone who wants to be pre-qualified and first on the list to see an UWS townhouse.

That said, I love to co-broke. We get a lot of tire-kickers in Red Hook, and I trust other brokers to pre-qualify their buyers before showing up. And as a buyer's agent, I have worked with plenty of listing agents who shared their "pocket listings" with my buyers. So I don't see it as a reason to spread yourself around as a buyer. Everyone values loyalty, and we talk to each other! If a buyer client of mine goes behind my back to deal directly with a listing agent, that agent is likely to call me to let me know. And neither of us are likely to trust that person again. I find that many people in our business are far more moral and circumspect than our reputation would have you believe.

Tina
(Brooklyn broker)

Indeed - I, honestly, am not even sure the degree of value a "specialization" provides a buyer to begin with. (Again, feel free to correct me here) We all have access to the same listings, and unless brokers won't co-broke (like tina24hour, i love them), which in this market seems crazy, this means every buyer should have access to every listing on the market regardless which broker he/she chooses. This means accessibility, personality, a willingness to do a lot of legwork and a consultative approach would be infinitely more important in choosing a broker than their "specialty", no?

For sales-side representation MAYbe a specialty is more important: "I've sold in this building or this neighborhood". Even THEN, my gut says "so WHAT?" why does selling in this building before make you better? What does building "specialist" actually mean? Because you've dealt with the board? So can others. Neighborhood comps? Again, it comes back to doing the hard work on behalf of your sellers and buyers. Often these specialists live in their building - this is great because it's easier for them to get friendly with owners and then represent their properties when they come up for sale ... the tried and true model for god knows how many years. But this only has SOME level of clout in co-ops because of their quirkier processes. Frankly, I might even see that as a conflict of interest: you own shares in your building, therefore you may not advise the seller to lower the price because it may impact the value of your home. (on the upside, you are incentivized to get the highest price, i know)

Bottom line: I think the specialty thing, unless VERY niche or high end, is a great way to brand oneself but has less meat to it than one might think.

I think there's a difference between having access to the catalog and knowing the inventory. My first year in the business, I learned how to look through the catalog. My next couple of years, I began to "get" the match between different buyers and different spaces (because 30_yrs will tell you that the value of a true buyer's broker is to get buyers spaces that are right for them that they might not have otherwise considered.)

But it really takes the brokers with decades of experience to know what boards are fiscally irresponsible and yet entrenched; what building had a mouse problem and tried to bury it; where the leaks are, etc.

ali r.

DG Neary Realty

fair enough, front_porch. thanks.

follow-up question: what's the turnover of board membership in your experience? i ask with respect to the decades piece you mentioned - for example: is the board of 20 years ago the same one who is fiscally irresponsible? (same for mouse problems, etc)

i'm also wondering if the value a buyer's broker may have shifted over the years. i.e. longer than 10 years ago, that may have been more important as buyers had limited to no transparency on the inventory out there, so being a fantastic matchmaker was key. has that shifted, therefore, with the advent of the internet, streeteasy, etc. away from the matchmaker value and more towards the valuation, market analysis, negotiating strategy, creating upside/downside scenarios for investing, etc.

clearly all skills are important ... just curious if you see a shift at all.

I have a difficult time understanding why a buyer wouldn't want to use a broker unless they have very limited time to see apartments. First of all, it doesn't cost me anything as a buyer and I don't have to sign anything. I can leave whenever I choose. Even living in a neighborhood for more than 15 years, I'm not familiar with every builing on every street although I have a good idea where in the neighborhood I want to live. A buyer's broker can help me sort through the various buildings and find possible matches. For the buyer's broker, dealing with someone who may not have a very clear idea of what they want in an apartment can prove to be a challenge. I really like front_porch and 30year's idea of helping buyers to consider spaces outside of their original notions. I don't think that just searching online for apartments and viewing floorplans and listing prices is anywhere near what you need to do to find the right apartment. Having viewed at least 75 apartments so far, I have a much better idea of what I really want. But from the broker's side, they may lose patience. But from the buyer's perspective, unless the broker is irritating or very inexperienced, you lose nothing and might gain much.

"There is a pizza place in the village with this big sign in the front window : "Specializing In All Types Of Pizza". "

If not for "the village" part, I would have guessed it was the one under Hunt-Kennedy's old office (bad inside joke for you long term UWS-ers.

And don't forget the invaluable help the broker provides even after you've found the place you love and negotiated a fair price. My broker did all the legwork and all grunt (ie copying) work for my board package. Further, because the selling broker was a building/neighborhood "specialist" she worked with my broker to be sure the package spoke to the likely concerns and "hot button" issues of this specific board as she had dealt with them many times before.

I felt both brokers did a great job, worked together well to get the deal done and at least on my side were a value add to the process. Never say never, but I don't think I would ever choose to buy a place without a buy side broker to assist me (or one of the Keith B/West 81 service based variants).

http://nychousewhisperer.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-use-small-firm.html