Increased maintenance discovered at closing

Isn't it common practice for your attorney during due dilligence period to request "last" statements of everything, including maintenance.

I agree seller and broker should represent properly, but responsabilty lays with your attorney as well.

Wow, this isn't the first I heard of this as well. There was a thread about condo's and the actual amount of the taxes.

It's crappy when shit like this happens but I'm sorry, these kind of things are on your attorney as well. Your not just paying him to shake hands with everyone.
He is supposed to read condo/coop plans, minutes.
He is supposed to get a hold of last tax bill,gas,electric,etc.

Reminder, at all closings, if a realtor speaks, you immediately tell then to shut the fuck up or you will throw then out the fucking window. Actually, I prefer to tell them that before the closing starts, just so there is no confusion later.

In response to truthskr10, I don't know what common practice is, but I certainly am not thrilled with the representation I got and will ask my attorney if you are correct about this. All we got was the 2008 financials and I was told that the 2009 ones would not be ready at this time of the year and that that is totally standard. (I'm not saying this is correct - only that it's what I was told.) I don't deny at all that my lawyer should have caught the error. As I indicated, I think the responsibility should have been somewhere around 50-50. The problem with Schwadron was that he thought it should be 100-0, with his side having zero responsibility. I see no rational basis for that view.

Where was the seller's attorney in all of this? The seller's attorney would ordinarily be the one who would consult with your attorney to figure out what, if anything, to do about such an error. It seems strange to me that the real estate agent was the one making that call on the seller's behalf.

I had the same thing happen at a closing a few years ago. Sell side took the same hard line position (broker/seller) would not give up a nickel. I wound up giving up a piece of my commission to get the deal closed and keep my customer happy, whom were great people. They appreciated the gesture and just bought with me again a few weeks ago. Now I insist that we see a copy of the most recent MNT. statement.

Keith (Broker)

Where was the buyer's attorney in all this?

Miette: absolutely right. The seller's attorney arrived very late to the closing, and Mr. Schwadron stated his views before the seller's attorney arrived. But when the seller's attorney arrived, he took the same view as Mr. Schwadron.

Keith: thanks for your input. Very interesting. I'm impressed with how you handled it and will follow your practice re. most recent maintenance in the future.

aifamm: unfortunately, my attorney was present and utterly ineffective. As I stated before, I don't deny that my side should have figured out the error and bears some responsibility. In addition, we're all human and we all make mistakes. What I find so objectionable is the total refusal to try to reach a fair resolution and total denial of any responsibility whatsoever. Even if the misrepresentation was somehow an unavoidable error, I strongly believe that the proper resoltion was for both parties to share the burden of that error, rather than insisting that the seller's side (which was the side in the best position to verify the maintenance) should not share even some portion of it.

I highly doubt it was an "accidental" error. Just one of the gray areas of shadiness in sales that can't be proven. (lower maintenance = higher price)

Regardless, my opinion is that it's the buyer's attorney's job to make sure his/her client doesn't get into a situation like this. I think this is the exact reason we have attorneys in real estate transactions in Manhattan... to do this due diligence prior to signing contract.

aifamm: I agree re. buyer's attorney's job. Just curious: do you think seller had no responsibility for providing incorrect information and signing contract with incorrect information?

What about square footage inflation?
What about not disclosing knowing that the building's maintenance will be going up next year?
What about not disclosing that the school district is about to change to an undesirable one?
What about not disclosing that your view is about to be blocked by a new building?

caveat emptor, it's your job not to trust the seller of anything.

Meselson,
Reading your post, makes my blood boil again.
My dual agent :( never reveal HER seller is NOT going to leave the CUSTOM MADE shades to me during my viewing the property until I signed the purchase contract and delived the 10% deposit.
When I ask her why she never mention the above, she said " YOU NEVER ASKED ", then " It is NEGOTIABLE though! ".
When I ask her why she never answer my question re the condo's interiors, it was either,
" I forgot ", or " I am not able to use electronic device due to religious reasons".

Oh i never said the seller shouldn't have responsibility to post correct information, but presumably your attorney would have picked up on it and you could have renegotiated before you sold or just walked away.

come on, it's ONLY about $125 X 12 X 30yrs or so... you probably lost that amount just for buying now vs. a year or so later...

aifamm: point taken. There is no shortage of sleaziness in the real estate market, or any other for that matter. Maybe there would be slightly less if we spoke up about it more. In addition, I don't think any of the forms of non-disclosure that you mention are comparable to affirmatively stating a materially incorrect maintenance amount in a signed contract. Maybe I also have to assume that this happens all the time and that most people don't care about signing contracts with false information which will disadvantage the other party. But I think we should all at least aim for higher standards, while taking all necessary precautions to protect ourselves from those who do not.

Agreed and now you know and knowing is half the battle.
Just enjoy your new home!

aifamm: excellent point!!!

So will you be hiring Jared Schwadron when you're ready to sell or are you going to be honest about the monthly maintenance?

I had a closing once where the listing agent not only misrepresented the maintenance, but showed up DRUNK at the closing!

VIVA LA REALT-WHORES!

12X125X30=45,000!!!
should have asked for a reduction in price or walked. You paid an Attorney to do this for you and they behaved in a unprofessional manner. This could be malpratice? do you think you owe your attorney a fee?

You can always write his manager a scathing letter, and cc him and Rebny. It will make you feel better.

weighing in here and agreeing with falcongold1. a bunch o' folks not doing their jobs including the one who was one degree away from you and paid to be your advocate. stinks.

If you are going to put up warnings about devious RE Brokers, you should add the names of incompetent Buyer's Attorney's as well.

"What I think was very problematic was that Mr. Schwadron took the position that neither he nor the seller had any responsibility whatsoever for the misrepresentation in the contract"

While I totally disagree about the Seller, an awful lot of contracts specify that "the buyer is not relying on any information in Real Estate Broker's setups" etc. I'm not trying to be an apologist for Mr. Schwadron, who I've never met nor dealt with, but I think some of this blame is misdirected by being placed SOLELY on him (and it's POSSIBLE that he was merely passing on the information he got from the Seller and then got backed into a corner defending it).

It wasn't clear to me how the original misrepresentation got into the contract...who was responsible for that?...did someone put false information knowingly?...also, my ignorance, why is the monthly charge listed in the contract as aan exact amount, since it is variable anyway....

Leaving aside misrepresentation, once you get to the closing stage, basically any competent party should be expected to be an advocate for their side.....

falcogold1 - you're right about my attorney. i'm trying to figure out how to deal with that now. thanks for your input.

maly - thanks for the suggestion. i'll find out who the manager is.

30yrs_RE - I am not accusing Schwadron of being devious, nor blaming him for the misinformation. As I stated above, I suspect it was an inadvertent error by someone, probably not him - I don't know. The reason I felt compelled to post a warning about him, and only him, is not that I think he intended to provide false information or that he is solely responsible for the error. Rather, as I stated above, my problem with him is his view that neither he nor the seller had ANY responsibility for the error and therefore had no obligation whatsoever to contribute to a resolution. Also as previously stated, I fully agree that my lawyer screwed up. That is why I think both I and the seller should have shared the burden (which we eventually agreed to do after I refused to close otherwise). I do not feel compelled to post warnings about people merely because they are incompetent or made a mistake - we are all fallible. The question is how do you deal with it. The way Schwadron dealt with it was to deny all responsibility for providing materially false information in his listing. If that is a broker's view of his job, I think those dealing with him should be aware of it.

Why would you enter into a business relationship with someone named "Jared" in the first place?

You were just asking for trouble.

Matt, for once, is right.

Isn't the rule of thumb: When comparing equal properties, for every 100 dollars of maintenance difference, figure 100k in purchase price.

Meselson, you bought two properties. One you bid on (didn't close on) and the second one you closed on (both the same address & apt). The second one you just happened to pay 100k more for. Enjoy.

Meselson: The rule of buying real estate is never to fall so in love that you can't walk away. Why didn't you walk away? Certainly if factual misrepresentations were uncovered, you were entitled to your deposit. And you had your lawyer there to ask. If you got up and prepared yourself to walk out, I'm sure Mr. Jared (agree with Matt, here) would have agreed to pay.

When we closed on our apt in Miami, we were signing a million papers. But we checked every one of them. One had new information that not even our extremely meticulous lawyer caught. We refused to sign it. The developer's law team (team!) insisted that every owner that closed had signed it and it was mandatory. We still refused and prepared to walk out. The lawyer started talking about the return of our deposit. There was a flurry of phone calls and activity on the team's side. As we were walking out the door, they dragged us back and dramatically ripped up the paper.

I better sell all my "Subway's" stock.

Streetview, I think the rule is more like $100,000 for every $500-600 of maintenance.