The Edge--What's the Current Pricing?

nycwriter, I've heard nothing about bankruptcy. You didn't get your info from a poster named nyc2009 by any chance? Would take anything he/she posts with a gigantic grain of salt. Are you negotiating? Any updates on number of contracts (was about 30% at the beginning of the year, I believe)?

We were there 2 weekends ago and we were told closings should begin April month-end.

id be interested in a buyers group

I would be interested too. can someone set that up with a special login to avoid all of the annoying posters?

I would be interested too. The EDGE confirms TCO mid April / end of April.

The Edge isn't close to bankruptcy. It's owned by a big bank that can ride the current depressed prices out. Should it choose to or go the route of the Forte in Fort Greene is another story. I hope that all of you can obtain good pricing, but with certain buildings, the developer is limited to a floor $/sq-ft that they can go to. There's so much inventory in Williamsburg, so I don't understand that stance.

What are your opinions on fair price today $/sf

Good question kiz10014. I'd like to know others' thoughts as well on $/sf.

This should be an interesting discussion. I'm not an expert, but aren't new developments selling at the $750-$775/sf range in Wburg? I'm sure that the EDGE people will say that it's a unique property on the water, has cool amenities, blah, blah, but doesn't 1 Brooklyn Bridge in Brklyn Heights also have it?
1BBBP has 13ft ceilings, better park and is in a more expensive neighborhood. StreetEasy says that active sales there are $766/sf, recorded sales $782/sf. One should argue that EDGE should be a little cheaper.

It's tough to say what prices "are" because there really is very little selling-- if a development has tens or hundereds of units for sale and every so often someone comes by and purchases one I don't think either the asking price or those occasional sales define market price.
To me, the best thing to go by was those Berry bldgs that seemed to sell fairly well in the 600-700 range depending on floor,view, layouts etc.
Using that I would think a bldg like the edge would be in the 650/sf range for less desireable units and on up from there--
I'm not saying I would pay that--I'm just looking at what the market seems to be now.

I hear you. It is tough - only thing that we can go on is where the market is now. It will be interesting to see where prices go when people start moving in...

Hi everyone... We're in contract to buy at The Edge and thinking about what our options are at this point. It's terribly uncomfortable thinking about walking away from our deposit, but the reality of the situation forces us to consider it. So any thoughts about latest pricing, financing, concessions, etc here will be very helpful. It's definitely a spectacular project, but regardless I am confident that early signers like us will be way under water at this point if we move forward at 2008 prices.

Hi cautiousbuyer. You shouldn't even think about closing at 2008 prices because the 10% or whatever you put down is long gone in terms of value of the apartment. The fact of the matter is that if you walk away the developer won't be able to sell the apartment to someone else at those prices either. They can only sell at today's prices. So walking away makes economic sense, and you should be prepared to do that - but it seems to me that re-negotiating with the developer at today's prices is the sensible thing to do. If not, you can buy somewhere else at today's levels and still save money even though you lost your deposit.
Everyone would walk away who signed contracts at those levels, and they've got a lot of apts to sell. I am in the same boat.

Yes, I am in complete agreement with you bereasonable, and we are fully prepared. It's unfortunate and pretty awful but very real. What I'd really like to know is what today's prices actually are. I think we have a pretty good sense, but it would be nice to know first hand (without going into the sales room and asking myself) what they are looking for. We definitely won't be willing to send good money chasing after bad, but we would like to move forward with the unit we originally chose.

I haven't heard anything what the developer wants to sell the apartments for, but you should pay what the current market is paying. If you walk away, that's what they'll have to do anyway. Since you're already gone down the road with them, its in their economic interest to just deal with out, and get you in the building that spending the money and time to try to get someone else when you could be paying maintenance fees in a building that will have many other apts to sell with no one in them.
That's why a combo of other Wburg new developments plus a discount to 1BBP (like I tried to describe earlier in this post) seems to be around the right level. This is going to be a situation where they will likely dictate a higher price than what the apartment is currently worth and you will have to negotiate them down or walk away and live somewhere else in the neighborhood or at 1BBP.

cautiousbuyer - I think you need to look beyond what the % you believe the market value has dropped - assuming you are taking out financing on your purchase. For example, if you believe that a $1mm apartment has lost 15% of its value and thus you should walk away from your 10% deposit; if you were only planning on putting down 20% or 25%, then you're left with just $100 - $150k for a new purchase, which won't buy you close to the $850k.

As for 1BBP, I don't know if either of you have walked around the neighborhood there but it's very, very far from transportation, much less active than Williamsburg and half of the aparments look over a highway (which arguably is worse than just facing the street) so their average pricing reflects that.

I'm also a buyer at the EDGE at 2008 pricing but in reviewing "what else i could buy if i walked away," most of what i'm finding are older apartment buildings or pretty poor construction if new. That said, we are planning to try and negotiate as we get closer to closing.

nycre101 has a good point. You should consider whether you have a fixed amount of capital to use on a apt search - and whether your financing will also. Luckily apts in Wburg are down more than 15% since 2008 - especially with all these new developments. Note that in a market with all those available apts and other buildings in the area, the value of real estate will be down substantially from 2008 levels for the forseeable future. So like any other investment - the value of that 10% downpayment is gone when you review the overall value of the apartment.
I've been to 1BBP, and have checked out the apts there. It is far from the subway - a couple of blocks further than where EDGE is - keep that in mind. There is a difference in pricing from the BK side and the water side - which I'm assuming also the EDGE has. I have no idea what apts you guy have interest in, so I only figured in average prices for both cases. 1BBP is less active, which means that you're closer to a nicer, bigger park. Brooklyn Heights is a nicer, more expensive neighborhood which is certainly less active.
By the way, I am not advising to go to 1BBP. The only way to find data points on appropriate pricing for the EDGE is comparable new developments which have similar services and size in Brooklyn. 1BBBP is the best data point, but only 1 data point among others like Northside Piers, NV, 80 Met and others. I only used 1BBP as an example because it is a large project with river views also.
Negotiating with the developer is the preferred route. You just should be prepared with actual data on the market today because no one knows how reasonable the developer will be. If not, you'll just be encouraged to overpay at a higher price than other buyers currently in the marketplace.

does anyone know the % sold at the EDGE? i really like the building but im cautious as i have been reading about the other discussion of the building might go rental if they cant sell as they expect to, any thougths on that?

also for those who have purchased in the building, may i ask which lines you purchased? any suggestions?

for those who are interested, i think we should compile a list.

Another excellent point. I wonder about pricing at EDGE when they clearly may have (just a guess) only 30-40% sold. This is a market that will have to go down even futher 6 months down the road if they don't initially lower prices enough, because the growing amount of rentals in the building lowers values even further in the building for the condo buyers. This is not only a problem with Northside Piers, but virtually every other new development in Wburg and Brooklyn. The only way to avoid that is for EDGE to lower prices enough to sell most of the building, which new buyers will certainly wait for.

I think NSP is the best comparable right now - 1BBP is a totally different area and the 50% facing the highway are a no-go if you ever want to open the windows. NSP is between $550-$750 PSQFT right now depending on the line and the floor. The EDGE should probably be in the same range. 80MET is hovering btw $650-$750 PSQFT and so is 125 North 10th.
The EDGE has high maintenance so you should take that into account. I honestly don't see how they will sell 300+ units in this environment w/o dropping into the $600-$750 PSQFT range - especially with NSP2 still sitting on another 190 units and Toll is pretty aggressive on pricing. I'd love to rent at the EDGE if that comes out to be more reasonable.

Crains Business Magazine from last week said the Edge has over 400 unsold apartments.

Did they write about other places in Williamsburg, or just the Edge?

anyone have a link?

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20100314/REAL_ESTATE02/303149988

The developer is an optimist, I will say that

Does anybody have news on closing dates? Last I heard (about 2 months ago) it was April.

From speaking with the sales office: those in subsidized rental apts began moving in last week, the south tower is supposed to be ready in the next month and a half, with the north tower at some point this summer.

Thanks mikolinski.

So that puts it around May mid/month-end.

That's for the first 10 floors only right?

Not sure about the floors...I can ask them tomorrow when I go check out the progress inside. Hopefully get a peak of our apt in the north tower too.

I would be interested in a buyer's group.

I bought there in 2009 and only got a 7% discount. Price ended up 930 per sf. It is a nice unit and they claimed this was the last of its kind left and wouldn't go any lower. I worry that I may have paid way too much. Also, if it's true that only 40% is sold there is an issue with mortgage contingencies. If not enough units can sell, even if I can buy, what will happen? I'm a little nervious and confused.

Hi emm01. It seems from this blog that you are not the only one in this boat. Keep in mind that you haven't closed yet, so you haven't paid the 930 per sf, which is no longer realistic in today's market. I'm not even sure that your lender will let you close at that level, because you automatically will have an underwater mortgage from day 1. I don't know if a buyer's group exists, but there seems to be plenty of demand for one as there are people that want to renegotiate their contracts at today's levels. My advice is to contact your lawyer about a buyer's group, or at least the appropriate strategy to close at today's prices.
Does anyone know of a buyer's group?

whomever wants to join the group: send email contact to fashionnista@aol.com and note if you have a broker or not. if you do, please add name and contact info.

Are you guy worried about phase II? I'm currently thinking about one of the apts with Mahattan view, but once Phase II is up, all the view from Phase I towers will be gone (or partially gone). Any words on the height of the phase II building?

My understanding is that some of the phase one apartments will have their views blocked by phase two and some won't. Part of the phase two building will be high and part will not. Someone at the sales office should really be able to answer this one. I am facing north in the north building so I will see the state part and the river off to the left and some of the Manhattan skyline to the left of the river. I was very clear with the sales guy that I did not want an apartment with a view that would eventually be obstructed. I don't get the drop-dead straight on river view though. Still, the view is nice.

The nebulous preservation of views (which are costing top $) seem to be yet another reason to avoid this place til the prices come correct

If anyone is starting a buyers group let me know, I went under contract summer 2009; I am sure we all have different insights into this situation and a group getting together on this may not be a bad idea at all.

Hi munani. I am under contract and I'd love to talk with you. If there is anyone else under contract and would like to share strategies send me an email at bereasonableblog@gmail.com.

I am also under contract (around the same time as munani). I would love to hear from anyone in a similar situation. I can be reached at palagia@gmail.com. Thanks.

re: the views - phase II will block some of phase I, the people in the sales office can tell you which ones will be blocked. And realistically phase II won't be coming along for a few years I think what with 500+ units to sell (not to mention all the other inventory in the neighborhood) and a freeze on constructions loans.

units whose views will be blocked by phase ii are priced much lower (but will still enjoy good views for probably at least 5 years) than those with unobstructable views. i looked at what's available in my price range throughout the area and i liked the edge best by far. that said, a comparably priced unit at nsp (or elsewhere) will probably have more square footage, but it seems units at the edge are very efficiently laid out, so the difference in sf might be barely noticeable. it's still a trade-off, quality vs. (raw) square footage, but i don't see them coming down by as much as nsp. maybe 10% or so.

Prices will come down after the first wave of move in. Give it till after summer.
I say 10% off list price.

I did my comparison today after seeing the units in person. I have to say that the prices are so off that I don't even know how to start an offer. I see them pricing 20% to 25% too high...esp. compared to NSP. Yes, it's nicer than NSP, but how much more /sf are you able to justify? $50/sf?$200/sf? I think that it's closer to the former.
The interior was nice, but not as nice as I thought. They certainly cheapened out in the end - they opted for Bosch/sharp (miele fridge) rather than Miele (many earlier developments in the neighborhood have Miele+subzero); they used oak floor rather than walnut or cherry; don't get me started with the ugly sharp microwave and what really surprised me was the lack of range hoods. Even rental buildings have range hoods...I think that the product will eventually be nice once everything starts running, but it will be 1-2 years before it happens. I'd like to see how the units close first, see the clearing prices and then make a decision. I don't see how the appraisers can assign $400/sf more than NSP.

I am currently in the process of bidding on an apt. The Edge is not really willing to negotiate. They are confident that the economy is on its way to support 2008 pricing. Those of you who are scoffing that Edge and other developments are overpriced are out of touch with reality. I already lost out an an apt at 80 Metropolitan to someone who paid list price.

I forgot to mention, did you all know that the 421 Tax Abatement is not in place? Therefore, you will have to pay FULL TAXES until the 421 tax abatement is approved. Just FYI.

Any word on the hoods above the stove?

The 421a is never in place before a building has its certificate of occupancy. A credit can be claimed for any overpaid taxes.

It's a cash flow issue-if you don't have much left after closing, the tax might be quite a burden for you, whether it will be refunded or not. So consider this when you make an offer.

Yes, that's correct caffeine.

btw, have you decided what to do yet caffeine? J1972 in the other thread said he got 10% off asking PLUS seller's concession of transfer taxes (2% of sale price)

caffeine, jabra, are you both considering The Edge as well? Would love to hear what your thoughts and feelings are...

I decided to wait. The supply is ample. Why am I in a hurry? J1972, I have some comments in this thread a few days ago.

j1972 and caffeine, email me at "b burg edge at yahoo dot com"

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The sales team was offering 10% off list price + buyers closing cost.
Range hood is not required if there is a window within 15ft.
However you can ask the seller to install one.

"The sales team was offering 10% off list price + buyers closing cost. "

this is as of when?

As of march. After the hard hat tour, i sat down with the sales agent and was given the info.

gotcha. thats pretty much the same info I was given in early january. at least theyre consistent.

when will closings begin?

Walked into the sales office yesterday. They said that occupancy should begin by June.

I was told early June as well.

If anyone is talking offline, please add my address... cautiousbuyer@gmail.com.

I am currently in contract to purchase and I'm prepared to walk away if it doesn't make sense.

The development looks great, but the reality is that the market is down ~30%, and while I truly believe The Edge is something special, I would put the very best-case scenario at -15%, with units on the Brooklyn side are down more and on the East River side perhaps down less.

Unfortunately, we are definitely headed toward a period of higher mortgage rates and so anyone buying now will need years of inflation and rising wages to breakeven. I am willing to meet the developer halfway for sure. Just looking to prepare before I reach that discussion... and to meet like minds.

If you don't get at least 50% off the original listing prices you will be at least 30% upside down on your apartment the day you move in if you put 20% down. There is no market for this building and the developer knows it. Several more buildings have been announced as well as several about to hit the market. I have knowledge that they are doing deals at 50% off. With 400 empty apartments they have no choice.

"I have knowledge that they are doing deals at 50% off."

Given your track record about this building, I'm highly dubious. Any actual evidence of this? And there is certainly a market for this building - the only issue, really, is price.

If there is such a market why are there 400 unsold apartments with closings starting in less than two months. One Brooklyn Bridge has dropped prices over 30% and can't sell anything and NSP just dropped prices another 10-15% and cant give them away.

Again, it's price. As for the other buildings, 1BBP has sold a lot of apartments so far this year, and NSP1 has 15 closings - check the Streeteasy pages for the buildings if you don't believe it. Despite your claims, they are selling. Your facts, again, are not good.

The difficult thing for The Edge is to know about signed contracts until people start moving in in June...at this point alot of people I predict are sitting on their contracts

nyc2009, you cannot compare this development to One Brooklyn Bridge Park.

Edge: L Train. 1BBP: no subway
Edge: neighborhood w/goods and services. 1BBP: nothing\
Edge: Waterfront Access. 1BBP: Waterfront Access AND BQE ACCESS!

You really can't compare the two. I will explain to you once and for all:

The Edge does not have TCO yet. Once TCO comes, they will lower their prices slightly, and they will sell like hotcakes. There is a lot of pent up demand in the neighborhood. The developers at The Edge have deep pockets and can afford to wait for the market to come up and meet them: they do not have to meet the market.

How do I know this? Because I am someone who bid on apts there and they would not meet my price, nor give enough incentives. My bid was only 10% off. Your 50% number is completely BASELESS.

i think nyc2009 should change his moniker to nyc1989
hey bjw if u r following this thread could i ask a small favor? a friend asked me to give him a price on a place purchased in 2004 and i just cancelled my insider feature because of my purchase(got to find those nickels somewhere). Anyway the place is 347 w 57th st apt 40c it was bought in 12/04 but i can no longer find out what the purchase price was??? anybody help a brother out?

moxie, I recently canceled my insider account as well (not using it as much these days), but looked up the place on ACRIS - closed in Jan 2005 for $1.495m.

I am interested in a Buyers Group/Association and will be contacting Ffahionista, Palagia, Bereasonable and Cautiousbuyer separately

From my research the situation at present is as such:

1. 22% of the Edge is in contract - From a Wells Fargo agent workgin directly with the Edge on the FHA.

2. South Tower is being occupied for the rental units - I have seen this and talked with tenants.

3. Closing on South Tower is estimated 45 - 60 days away with North Tower 6 weeks behind South Tower in construction - A conversation between the EDGE and my lawyer, as well as with construction crew respectively
.
4. The Edge must seek an FHA requiring all persons in contract to inccur additional costs - Wells agent from above.

Impact to those in contract:

1. The Edge must reach 30% threshold to receive an FHA.

2. Rental units may be pre-requisite for tax abatement, though The Edge is opaque in providing information on tax abatement status/application etc, which can mean significant increased costs to owners.

3. Under an FHA all contract holders irrespective of credit rating and % down payment will be required to pay additional 2.25% Loan Origination Fee and 5 year statutory PMI.

4. The Edge is seeking special arrangements with lending institutions for persons with good/excellent credit and + 20% for conventional loans, though these may not be in place and rates are higher than with major lending institutions.

I was able to get a 2BD/2BA in Tower 2 on a high floor with water views at NSP for 670 psf with Toll Brothers providing the financing with their own mortgage unit at competitive rates. Edge pricing is higher and financing is unavailable. Am I missing something?

Hey Lance1.....Can you tell us the floor and line, we may end up being neighbors

yes lance can you give info?

if you prefer to talk outside here.....email me at fashionnista@aim.com. your info would be greatly appreciated

getting edgy, have you bought yet?

getting edgy, let me know if you hear back from lance. maybe we can try to get a deal together with NSP2

Lance1 can you let us in on the line and floor at NSP2 because we are looking into buying and the sales personelle continue to say that the max discount is 10%. Would you be willing to tell us how you approached them? I can email you offline or you can email me offline at loratsakiv23@gmail.com. I tink you would help many of us with you comments. thanks

Wow! Only 22% in contract?! When we visited in mid-2008, they said 20%.

Wow! Only 22% in contract?! When we visited in mid-2008, they said 20%.

Hey GettingEDGY, could you please elaborate on the FHA approval?
"4. The Edge must seek an FHA requiring all persons in contract to inccur additional costs - Wells agent from above. The Edge must reach 30% threshold to receive an FHA."
My understanding is that the EDGE IS approved for FHA. It's even on their website. So what do you mean?
Thanks

Financing for the Edge is available regardless of percentage sold or in contract through Brooklyn Federal Savings Bank or Home Owners Mortgage Express. For those who want to do an FHA loan, my understanding was that they are approved for this. BoA has a program under which they will cover part of the initial mortgage insurance premium required for an FHA loan.

Hey All,

I will craft a broad response to the above.....

1. Fashionista, I have purchased last summer 2009, where I was informed that the Edge was 30-40% in contract.....Edgy and Fishy as it were. While I have not heard back from Lance1 I will contact you off this site, but also consolidate all email addresses from above and send out a wider email to all.

2. I was not aware that the Edge is FHA approved, but can confirm that Brooklyn Federal Savings Bank and Home Owners Mortgage Express are preferred lenders for non-FHA seekers. Worth noting is that the rates are slightly higher so for a conforming loan at about 417,000 you are looking at about 20k extra in interest with a 30 year fixed rate. Also noteworthy is that Brooklyn federal does not offer a 30 year fixed rate loan package so you will be looking at any adjustable to start.

3. Assuming the Edge is approved for the FHA owners still have to pay the 2.25% origination fee and PMI for the 5 years unless we go to Brooklyn or Home Owners above, and the shortcomings here are cited.

4. I do not know anything about BoA, but will follow-up from Polisson above.

Jabra, you're right you can't compare Edge with OBBP. I mean I like Edge, but:

Edge: small apts. OBBP: spacious floorplans.
Edge: 421a abatement not in place. OBBP: J-51 abatement in place. One of the longest best abatements in the City.
Edge: limited, expensive financing options. OBBP: several lenders to choose from with no FHA markups.
Edge: Waterfront access. OBBP: Waterfront access and Brooklyn Bridge Park (already receiving broad acclaim)
Edge: Barely selling and unrealistically priced. OBBP: selling briskly since price adjustements in October '09.
Edge: L train. OBBP: 2, 3, 4, 5 and R trains (Jabra, no subway...seriously? it takes what 2 more minutes to walk to the subway from OBBP than Edge?)

Also, there are plenty of goods and services on Willow, Montague and Atlantic which are all a stones throw away. And more goods and services are on the way as the Park continues to come on line which will bring tenants to OBBP's retail space. Jabra, have you even been to OBBP?

I really liked Edge, the amenities, the finishes, etc. But OBBP offers much larger apartments, much better pricing, the Park, etc. The sales to date bear this out.

Did anyone get some recent feedback from 2NSP in terms of discounts? When I spoke to sales two weeks ago they didn't offer anything but said they never went below -10% earlier this year. So I guess at least this would still be an acceptable price level to them. 2NSP does not have FHA approval yet but they are telling me they should get it within the next few weeks.

Also visited Edge recently and it just doesn't seem to make sense at the current price level. The broker I worked with said they were still not flexible on pricing. Any thoughts?

2NSP offers better $/sqf, walnut floors, okay finishes and good views in tower 2, compared to similar priced units at Edge. I'm thinking of making an offer for a higher unit at 2NSP, but since I understand from the people here that Edge is willing to negotiate as well I'm reconsidering. Would appreciate anyone's thoughts and would also be interested to talk offline.

Skir, email me at bburgedge at "b burg edge at yahoo dot com"

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I'm starting a yahoo group for people in contract at the Edge (myself included):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/williamsburgedge

For now, this group is only for people already in contract. Sorry, no brokers, attorneys, developers, prospective buyers (who have not yet signed a contract), curious bystanders, or ANYONE involved with the selling, marketing, construction or financing of the Edge. There WILL be a verification process.

If you are interested, please visit the webpage and click "Join this group".

Some factual comments:

J-51 is only a 14 year exemption and it started with occupancy. The EDGE will get getting a 25 year 421-a exemption.

Regardless of where one purchases an apartment, if one goes for an FHA loan, FHA will require the same fees.

nycre101, J-51 has both an exemption and an abatement. You are correct that the exemption lasts for 14 years, but the abatement lasts for 20 years.

You're right in the distinction between exemption and abatement but the exemption is worth multiple times the abatement value. The exemption is approx. 60% of the pre-exemption value which means taxable value will be more than double when the 14 years runs out. Additionally, the J-51 exemption is for increased value over the previous existing building due to renovation, whereas the a 421-a exemption is over the vacant land assessed value. Presumptively, an existing building would have a high assessed value than vacant land, even if it is partially abated.

(My only interest in saying all this is to clarify how the different tax exemptions/abatements work for those reading this discussion. www.nyc.gov/dof is a good resource. They also have a nice handy tool that allows you to pull up the value of the J-51 exemption and abatement for the condos at OneBBP or any other building)

Hey Lance...did you go through a broker to arrange your deal?

Does anyone know if it's better to deal with a broker at NSP or make the deal yourself?

i didn't use a broker. They suck!

Hi Ronen - did you buy at NSP? was the building flexible pricing or any other concessions?

I bought at NSP 2 back in January when everyone was saying the discount was insignificant and that more price cuts were to come.

Ronen - so were you able to bargain for a better price or additional concessions on your own?

Has anyone received updated information on when closings will begin?

Not nearly as drastic as some would have it, but progress nonetheless:

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/06/11/williamsburgs_edge_cuts_prices_for_first_time_ever.php

Three weeks ago I was told by EDGE that they were about 29% sold. what is it?

Forgot to ask how much is Edge willing to negotiate realistically. I am about to withdraw my contract.

Im thinking about to withdraw my contract as well. Does anybody have any updates when closing will begin?

Are you guys saying you signed a contract already and not planning to close, or are just not signing the contract you were given?

Last time I spoke to them (about a month ago) they were saying "over 30% sold" and talking about 10-15% off the list price... Did you get more?

when will closing begin? what should you offer to get to 15% off list?

I visited this weekend. Closings in the South building will occur first. No specific date, just "soon". North building is about 5 weeks behind South building. Lobby floors of South building were being finished. So, I didn't see the lobby. Steam bath and sauna had tile/wood installed and looked ready. Pools looked ready as well. Basketball court was done. North lobby had wall tiles being installed. I'm GUESSING 4-8 weeks to get common areas done.
They are very open to offers. Broker said ignore list prices and make offer. He said pricing is so different from early contracts, but they are adjusting prices/deals to people already in contract "to be fair". I'm not sure I believe that. Be skeptical but if there's a time for low bids this may be it. I would guess the pricier the apartment to start with the greater percentage discount possible. No harm in lowballing. Have a back up apartment in another development and be aggressive and patient.

asdasf1234-- offer more than 15% off then work up. One way is offer 15% off and have sponsor pay closing costs up to 6% of purchase price. Then adjust either price or closing cost demands (or both) till you get your desired discount.

Got an accepted offer on a 2br in the north tower facing south. Not much view but direct sun. Got about $740/sf plus closing costs. About 12% off asking. Some lines seem more negotiable than others.

The only 2br in nsp are listed at over 900K. Granted they are larger and have great views, but even going 10% down are still 100K+ more than this.

Congrats crazy and good luck. I agree that for 2BRs, the edge has a lot more options than nsp. In particular at the 600k - 700k price point; starting prices for 2BRs are a lot higher at nsp.