Looked at another place with "possible" rights to the roof space directly above the unit. Another top-floor apartment has already acquired and built on their portion of the roof (deck, plumbing, electrical, new stairs from the unit), which gives me some optimism that we may be able to do so as well. In order to acquire the roof, the other apartment had to take on all responsibility for maintaining... [more]
Looked at another place with "possible" rights to the roof space directly above the unit.
Another top-floor apartment has already acquired and built on their portion of the roof (deck, plumbing, electrical, new stairs from the unit), which gives me some optimism that we may be able to do so as well. In order to acquire the roof, the other apartment had to take on all responsibility for maintaining that portion of the roof, and we expect we'd have to agree to the same.
Assuming it is in fact buildable (we'd have an inspection done) and the board agrees to development plans, what would be a fair price per square foot for undeveloped roof space that can currently only be accessed through a very tall (external) hallway ladder? It's no more than 400 s.f. of space total with decent but not spectacular views.
Thanks for any guidance. Have no idea how to value this.
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Response by Topper
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 1335
Member since: May 2008
I find roof space pretty desirable. But there are also a lot of uncertainties here. The space would be probably reduced in size if you were to put your own staircase in to this space. (The public staircase may have to be maintained for fire regulations.)
I'll take a stab at $100 to $450 per square foot. I'd certainly offer much closer to the low end of this range than the high end. I'm guessing that the space is inherently most valuable to that owner rather than any other tenant.
Would be nice if you could find out what the other owner paid. (Send them a letter with your contact info?)
Seems to me that your purchase would be basically gravy for the coop/condo which could lead to a low bid being accepted.
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Response by wellheythere
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 166
Member since: Dec 2008
To clarify, are you talking about building a terrace/outdoor area on the roof, or a penthouse (habitable space), or both?
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Response by lad
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 707
Member since: Apr 2009
Just a terrace/outdoor area.
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Response by spinnaker1
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 1670
Member since: Jan 2008
Look at it this way: what is it worth the board to not have maintenance responsibility? Seems reasonable they would be glad to hand it over for next to nothing. That's how it should work but given there is precedent with the other roof dweller, the board already has put a number on the value. Agree with Top, send a letter.
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Response by alanhart
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Hide in your contract terms that allow you to install a garden-hose spigot, electrical outlets and lighting, a wetbar/fridge structure, a hardpiped gas grill (check re: fire code), and of course a dumbwaiter.
Invite all of us over for sidecars when it's all built out.
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Response by ab_11218
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 2017
Member since: May 2009
i wouldn't pay much for it because:
1 - you don't know if you can utilize the space.
2 - if the board allows you to use the space, how much will it cost you and will your maintenance go up by issuance of additional shares?
3 - there will be a significant cost in a creation of a stair case leading up to it and all of the other work that will be required to make it usable. you will lose internal square footage to the stair case. you will also be responsible for the roof. if it's in bad condition/end-of-life, you'll have to first replace the roof and then build the terrace.
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Response by wellheythere
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 166
Member since: Dec 2008
AB_11218 is right. These roof rights are potentially a good perk, but they shouldn’t be worth much to you as a factor in your offer to the seller, because they are too uncertain. Assuming you are granted the right to expand onto the roof, you then may still have to pay the board for the privilege, pay for the construction and permits, and assume responsibility to maintain the roof. This last point will be a major liability for you down the line.
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Response by 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 9880
Member since: Mar 2009
How much is a potentially winning Lotto ticket worth?
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Response by lad
almost 16 years ago
Posts: 707
Member since: Apr 2009
I agree that the potential roof rights are worth basically $0 in the offer to the seller.
But if we're presented with the option to separately purchase the roof space from the coop (and the agent thinks we will be), what kind of cost should we be looking at?
Here are the facts as we know them:
1) Existing roof dwellers do not pay higher maintenance or have more shares
2) We think they acquired and built several years. The agent was able to ferret out a total cost (not split out by roof v. construction) that seems absurdly low.
3) There is a potential conflict of interest that may make talking to the other roof dwellers inadvisable.
I find roof space pretty desirable. But there are also a lot of uncertainties here. The space would be probably reduced in size if you were to put your own staircase in to this space. (The public staircase may have to be maintained for fire regulations.)
I'll take a stab at $100 to $450 per square foot. I'd certainly offer much closer to the low end of this range than the high end. I'm guessing that the space is inherently most valuable to that owner rather than any other tenant.
Would be nice if you could find out what the other owner paid. (Send them a letter with your contact info?)
Seems to me that your purchase would be basically gravy for the coop/condo which could lead to a low bid being accepted.
To clarify, are you talking about building a terrace/outdoor area on the roof, or a penthouse (habitable space), or both?
Just a terrace/outdoor area.
Look at it this way: what is it worth the board to not have maintenance responsibility? Seems reasonable they would be glad to hand it over for next to nothing. That's how it should work but given there is precedent with the other roof dweller, the board already has put a number on the value. Agree with Top, send a letter.
Hide in your contract terms that allow you to install a garden-hose spigot, electrical outlets and lighting, a wetbar/fridge structure, a hardpiped gas grill (check re: fire code), and of course a dumbwaiter.
Invite all of us over for sidecars when it's all built out.
i wouldn't pay much for it because:
1 - you don't know if you can utilize the space.
2 - if the board allows you to use the space, how much will it cost you and will your maintenance go up by issuance of additional shares?
3 - there will be a significant cost in a creation of a stair case leading up to it and all of the other work that will be required to make it usable. you will lose internal square footage to the stair case. you will also be responsible for the roof. if it's in bad condition/end-of-life, you'll have to first replace the roof and then build the terrace.
AB_11218 is right. These roof rights are potentially a good perk, but they shouldn’t be worth much to you as a factor in your offer to the seller, because they are too uncertain. Assuming you are granted the right to expand onto the roof, you then may still have to pay the board for the privilege, pay for the construction and permits, and assume responsibility to maintain the roof. This last point will be a major liability for you down the line.
How much is a potentially winning Lotto ticket worth?
I agree that the potential roof rights are worth basically $0 in the offer to the seller.
But if we're presented with the option to separately purchase the roof space from the coop (and the agent thinks we will be), what kind of cost should we be looking at?
Here are the facts as we know them:
1) Existing roof dwellers do not pay higher maintenance or have more shares
2) We think they acquired and built several years. The agent was able to ferret out a total cost (not split out by roof v. construction) that seems absurdly low.
3) There is a potential conflict of interest that may make talking to the other roof dwellers inadvisable.
Any kind of "comps" would be greatly appreciated.