As a BUYER : One broker, several or none...

I am currently working on a contract & board package. My search began last summer when I was in a bidding match on an apartment. At that point in time I was not working with a broker. For my situation, I believe that going it alone was a mistake. Here we are 9 months later and I am signing a contract and working on the board package. The broker who I am dealing with was someone I met through a listing that was hers. It's been a pleasure. She was a good personality fit for me - when I found something I was interested in I would send her a note and she would schedule the appointment. Her inside knowledge of how the process evolves, from bidding to board requirements, have provided me with a comfort level missing last summer when I was going it alone. It's been a pleasure working with her as she has helped make the process easier. Best of luck in your search.

I would find the apt on your own, then bring in a broker to help with all the heavy lifting from initial bid to closing.

It won't make any difference in price, especially in this soft market, when most brokers are just looking for a deal. That's because REBNY members *must* co-broke, meaning they must split the commission with a broker on the other side, and nearly everybody you run into is at a firm that is a REBNY member. So brokers have to co-broke or they can be fined by REBNY.

Estimates I hear are that 75%+ of all sales in Manhattan involve two brokers. But I don't know the source of that number (except REBNY, but how would they know? I'm not sure)

If you end up with a co-op, the buyer's broker will act as your secretary to put together the board package that you simply must have to purchase. It takes hours and hours to do this, you will be grateful to have someone else doing the collating and double-checking. If you end up with a condo, this is much less of a factor.

I'm the buyer's broker for a Brooklyn deal that was just signed. I was able to answer a lot of questions and negotiated a better price than I personally believe this particular buyer could have obtained going solo. (However, please note there is no way to run that experiment.)

That particular apartment never appeared on Street Easy, by the way, because it was a For Sale By Owner deal. Street Easy, so far as I know, only lists broker exclusives.

All that said, if you're self-directed and search the web thoroughly for what you're looking for, if you've done extensive homework so that you know what the process is like, you will do just fine without a broker.

Look on your own first. When you see something you like, get a broker to help with the bidding and contract. The most benefit I got out of my broker was his help in preparing and submitting the board package since he had the experience and the know how.

Consider using a buyer broker that will rebate sone if the co-broker fee...
That is not advice that you will hear from most brokers... For the obvious reason

if you have a broker, the seller will most likely be less flexible on the ask because they have to pay the brokers fee. in my experience, a lot of brokers are worse than useless (though some help a lot). go it alone if you are finding the units you want. the real estate lawyer you'll hire before going into contract handles most of the leg work from there.

do you or anybody knows a good re lawyer, who deals a lot with sutton 's coops?

On the same page, how true is it that among several buyers for the same unit, ideally with identical offers, mine will be more attractive to the seller's broker as he or she will have no one to share his/her commission with? Sounds quite logical...would you say it happens?

My firm has recently been in the situation of seeing multiple offers for the same unit, and I swear to you, the candidate we urge the seller to favor is not the one who came in without a broker, or the one who bid the highest number, but the one who looks cleanest in terms of passing the board. The lousy economy has made boards stricter, and I'm not sure all buyers' brokers (I work both the sell and buy sides) have gotten the message.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

With regards to the buyer’s brokers, Proy1426 raises a interesting point, and front_porch is dead on in its response. To give you a realistic example, I currently has a listing in contract (see profile) in Chelsea that had multiple offers that ended up in a bidding war. (the unit is currently in contract above listed price) Within those multiple offers, we had a few candidates that were direct (no buyers brokers) and a few that were represented by a broker.

We fielded accepted offers from both direct buyers, as well as appointed buyers brokers. Long story short, all of our direct buyers lost out because the clients who came with a broker had their clients prepped and was ready to aggressively put together the deal.(orchestrating all communications with their mortgage broker, banks, lawyers, accountants, managing agents, board package procedures, etc.) As listing agents, we look to maximize the value of our client’s property, we will still dedicate our time in scheduling showings, holding open houses, and fielding other offers as they come in. Our time cannot be dedicated to direct buyers who may not be as knowledgeable and aggressive compared to those who come in with brokers.

Buyers oftentimes get confused as the listing agents are not hired by direct buyers, we work on a contractual basis with the seller's, and ONLY represent their interests. (not the buyers) Yes we will get a higher commission if buyers come in direct, but our main goal is to get the deal done with the highest price point possible, and finding the most probable way to close in the quickest amount of time.

As much as we'd like to have the direct buyers be prepared as those clients who come with brokers, we feel much more comfortable working along with an experienced broker who knows the ins-and--outs as much as the listing agents.

We can’t hold everybody’s hands!

One would assume you are speaking of a co-op purchase. Is this the case? If you are looking at condos then Proy's point is a valid one. If you are looking at only co-ops(extremely likely in your target area) then Ali's point is pertinent.
so....condo purchase-no broker
co-op purchase-one broker
browser with no intention of buying-many brokers

I'll write about my experience as an unrepresented buyer in a multiple-bid situation for a co-op -- and how I believe it worked to our advantage in several ways, both during and after the offer process -- once our deal is done. (Could be awhile.) Suffice to say that I think it's certainly possible to be the type of prepared, aggressive candidate takk mentions even without a broker.

As Ali said, we were the "cleanest" offer. Didn't matter that we were unrepresented. We came prepared with a mortgage preapproval letter and a REBNY financial statement (with backup documentation for everything on the financial statement, if necessary). If you want to be unrepresented, do your homework, and you'll be fine. There are some advantages, as well as some disadvantages. Do what feels right for you, and don't get caught up in any fear-mongering that you need a buyer's broker for a co-op.

Yes, ONLY looking for CONDOs...
In my personal experience, few to no advantages at all have resulted of asking a broker to help me on my side with my search: they have ALWAYS come back with either listings that I had previously heard of and that I had discarded myself or -even worst- with units out of my well-defined (and well-explained to them) scope of search, with a deceiveing waste of time for both sides.
On the other hand, when I have identified an interesting unit and directly contacted the seller's broker to ask for an appointment, as soon as he or she understands that there is no broker on my side, I ALWAYS perceive an extra-interest that reflects in fast appointments, etc.
As a bottomline, it seems like if the added value of a broker on the buyer's side is mostly about people who want someone else to do the search and plan visits based onkly on broker's suggestions. Also, for those who buy at Coop's a Borker on their side seems mandatatory...not my case.
Does someone disagree?

I don't disagree with proy1426, except with your idea that you get more attention as a direct buyer, instead of as a buyer with a broker.

There's something in psychology called selective perception, and it's easy to misinterpret what you think you're observing when you're caught up in that. Somebody needs to do a controlled experiment.

When a direct buyer contacts me (that is with me acting as a listing broker), too often they can't afford the apartment. (One of my co-op listings has a 30% down payment requirement.) I try to figure this out as quickly as I can, but it's a delicate thing to discern sometimes. I was fooled this past weekend by a middle-aged couple who, at the end of a detailed showing and discussion, finally confessed that they really couldn't afford the place, not even close, because of pending legal matters.

But when a broker contacts me, I ask them flat-out about the buyer's money, and they tell me--and that means no wasted time.

So if you're flying solo I hope you're either all-cash or have your pre-approval letter from a lender. I never ask to see the letter, by the way, so I'm doomed to get burned by this sooner or later....

Proy: What if your broker understood your situation and offered you a rebate based on the level of service you required?

Interview a few agents and find one that understands your needs. Pick a good one. You are not buying a sweater, you are about to spend a bunch of money. Remember, it is all about you, not the agent. Yet many don't get this. I just taught a class at REBNY for fellow agents on bringing value to the buyer. When you find an agent that get's it and you, you will save not only time and money, but the process may surprise you be quite pleasant. ANYONE can find an open house or apartment for sale, that's easy. But, you want someone that can lead you through the process without leaving any money on the table. Look at their track record, ask questions to access their knowledge,and if they bug you, even a little, find another... you'll have plenty to choose from. It is all about the match. It's a matter of relationship. You may be attached to them for months. Vickey Barron, SVP - Prudential Douglas Elliman.

Vicky - you are absolutely on target when you discuss the relationship that you have with your sales agent / broker. I met my broker through a listing that she was representing. The way she handled herself and discussed the merits of the property impressed me and that is why I hired her. I had met other sales agents / brokers at open houses that I had attended and felt that none of those would have been representing my interests above their own. A good broker can help make the transaction easier - a bad broker can make the process hell (or so I've been told by others who have had a bad experience!)

Some great advice here.

One minor correction: there are plenty of non-REBNY brokers in NYC. More each year from what I hear. They are not required to co-broke. Most of them will. Generally, they are not REBNY members for other reasons.

Based on what KeithB says, let me ask: can it be done? Aren't there any restrictions to that, so it might be considered ilegal? Thanks

proy1426: Yes it is legal in New York as well as 40 other states and this is addressed on the DOJ website. It is also considered an adjustment to price by the IRS, not taxable and no 1099 or other paperwork has to be filed.

I have been offering rebates for over a year, with our firm the rebated amount is determined based on the level of service the client requires. The rebates run from 33%-67% of our buy side commission and you receive your check at closing(as long as we are paid).

First thing I would like to clear up is that we are not a discount broker and our model is NOT based on Foxtons. We are a full service company that offers the client choices. We don't have a fancy office or any exorbitant marketing costs, we do use current technology to make our business model highly effective. This is what allows us to operate the way we do. I actually don't earn less money, on the contrary I am earning more due increased business. On most deals I earn the equivalent of my counterpart in the transaction due to the way the commission is split among agent and firm. But this model allows me to share the commission with my clients without disturbing the "normal" flow of the commission.

There are other firms that utilize this model and at least one that is in Manhattan. What I can offer is 20 years of experience in Manhattan Real Estate, I have done transactions from $300,000 up to $3.6mm with a variety of clients in business and the entertainment world. It is this experience that my clients come to rely on as well as honest, transparent service. My clients are cc'ed or forwarded all emails that are exchanged with either the listing or buy side agent/broker. You can also terminate our relationship at ANYTIME with no hard feelings or grief.

Last week I wrote a check out for $21,150. I can assure you the client not only thanked me for the rebate but also for being their "voice of reason" and helping them successfully navigate a smooth transaction (that was not always quite as smooth as we all would have liked.)

Sorry this got a little long (:

Keith (Broker)
http://theburkhardtgroup.com/agents_details.php?agent_ID=7619

Thanks Keith. One more question, do you previously document that agreement with your client-buyer, so you both know the rules you are playing by? Tks

Yes proy1426 we do put the terms in writing.
I would like to add that although we are offering an alternative to a traditional model, I have nothing but respect for the many very competent brokers serving Manhattan. We are just trying to offer customers more choices when they decide to buy, sell or rent here in NYC. I don't view it as an "us against them", but after doing this for about 20 years, I felt it was time to try something different to complement, enhance the process.

So far so good.

Keith (Broker)