Which is the Best Fringe Neighborhood?

so basically you are too broke to afford to live in the mecca of white power, therefore you are looking for the next frontier of urban gentrification but are too blind or lazy to lead a scouting party yourself?
go back to flyover country son

There are merits and disadvantages for all of these neighborhoods. It really depends on whether you are looking to buy to live or for investment purposes. Of the neighborhoods you described, Hoboken has a good balance of quality of life and investment potential (some would say it's already overpriced). Williamsburg is looking like another East Village and, personally, I'm not convinced about the quality of constructions there. LIC has a generally industrial feel other than the Hunter's Point area (which is quite nice). Some parts of Harlem below 125th are excellent from an investment and livability perspective - but just note the proximity to some public housing projects. If you're on the conservative side, pick Hoboken. If you're more speculative, pick one of the less established neighborhoods for upside potential - eg. East Harlem

Welcome to Metro-North, ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaahahahahahaha.

Enjoy the one hour commute, sucker.

If you can't find a place on the UES, you probably can't afford the newer, better buildings in Williamsburg or LIC either. Flatbush, Fort Greene, maybe, they are a little cheaper.

Ya hear that OP, before you get on the subway and go exploring, try brushing up on your math.

Hey OP, are you expecting the posters of Streeteasy to start a collection so you can afford a place that breaks the $1000 psf barrier? If so, you're in the wrong place. The people on here are either doing their best to get away from poor people (the minority that actually have cash) or are too busy scrimping their down payments together so they can pretend too live the high life.

Geez, don't you have a trust fund or some rich uncle if your parents wont help you?

I think he'll be passing the bucket around and post his paypal address pretty soon, Bonzo.

Passing the bucket around for? A plane ticket to Atlanta where everything is cheaper, or for that $1000 psf apartment? I doubt he'll even get the plane ticket.

Metro North? Try the LIRR and head for Great Neck. Its a commute, but still the kind of snooty, gentrified, snobbish area your looking for. You can be with all the posers like yourself and feel at home.

If he is heading too Long Island, might as well go all the way. You can find a nice trailer in Riverhead, ahahahahahhahhahahahhahahahahahhahahaha.

Quality of life means different things to different people, do you like camping out under the stars? Its beats the horrible, polluted, big city air. Its' waaaaayyyyyy cheaper too.

Maybe you should post your paypal address OP, some people here might feel guilty if you dont get that plane ticket and have to hitchike all the way to Atlanta. Even Paris Hilton would be nowhere without daddy's money. I am sure some people will sympathize, you'll at least get the money for a bus ticket if you post a good sob story.

If LIC, and Williamsburg are fringe, what do you call the area's beyond them OP?

Am I missing something about OP's post that was particularly offensive and deserving of the bizarre mocking that resulted?

Welcome to the internet baby, if you cant see whats up with the OP's post, you are just as clueless as he is.

Yeah #17, how would you like if you lived beyond "the fringe"?

When you wake the f*ck up #17 and realize the total land mass of the earth is 57+ million square miles and some city dwelling morons consider almost eveything beyond the 24 square miles of Manhattan as "fringe", you'll understand what is "particularly offensive".

Have a nice day!

Bonzo has an inferiority complex because he lives in Jackson Heights. Perhaps fringe has an unnecessarily harsh connotation. The denotation is meant to express "distance from Midtown". I think OP has an honest question that many people are struggling with -- namely since the neighborhoods which are most convenient to the Midtown central business district (UWS, UES, downtown) are the most expensive in North America, what alternatives to these are the most appealing? The goal of this conversation is to have folks who live in these other neighborhoods discuss their pros and cons. Any other neighborhoods not mentioned can join in too (even Jackson Heights).

I think #21 has it right. All OP is asking for is some help in figuring out where to move since he can't afford UWS, UES, downtown, but still wants a good neighborhood close to work in Midtown, with as many of the conveniences of those neighborhoods as possible.

The ironic thing is that OP clearly doesn't mean "fringe" as a major insult, since he's planning to move to one of these neighborhoods (that's why he's asking for advice about which one) and some of the people here are to hypersensitive to recognize it.

Don't think it is considered a "fringe" neighborhood but Murray Hill is REALLY reasonably priced - not a "hot" neighborhood but very centrally located and basically very nice. Take a look at what you can get in a full service building like the Carlton Regency. You won't do much better than that in the neighborhoods outside of manhattan and you don't have to commute. There are a few buidlings like this and 1 BR's/studios are really a bargain. If you have a little more cash there are some very nice buidlings on PArk between 34th and 40th street that also trade below what other comprables in the city go for.

Hello OP,

I have spent time in all of these neighbors except Flatbush and Jersey, which I don't know.

LIC is deserted at night in most areas. There are several music rehearsal/recording studios there, which is why I've been there late. Cafe Grumpy is a great spot, however, and if I were moving there I would try to get close to Cafe Grumpy. Still, it's a little spooky even there.

Billyburg is too expensive methinks, relative to what you get in terms of Q of L. That's just my opinion. I considered buying there actually and changed my mind. If you were even thinking of UES and UWS, you would might agree. I'm not sure it's even fringe anymore. And I don't care for Greenpoint's public transportation situation, I hate the G line, although it's fine with a car and I always find parking.

I love Harlem, and I have seen some great deals on new renovations there. If I had extra money right now I would invest there without hesitation. I work as a volunteer at 132nd St two days a week. There's terrific food, interesting night life, I park my 2006 car on the street day and night. Lots of arty types are moving up there. The biggest problem to me is the longish train ride to midtown, and it can be impossible to get a cab. But the trains are good.

PS: Please just ignore the nasty posts from jealous people who wish they had what you've got.

guilty til proven innocent OP...this board unfortunately is full of a lot of bitter people, perhaps that commute a looooong way.

Go further downtown..vs the neighborhoods you mentioned. LES near chinatown. East Chinatown. Some areas around WTC are still trying to bounce back block by block. There's great transportation in these areas. Some without lots of noise or bar lines streets for now.

Get some searches going on Elliman, Corcoran, Craigslist and start hitting open houses to see the hoods. I'm not sure I would call any area in Manhattan inexpensive, but there many not fully gentrified. To me that is fringe, just beyond the priciest stable areas.

After you have seen 10 or so places, make sure your finances are ready and be preapred to pull the trigger.

Good Luck.

just ignore that guy, he appears now and then just to stir up the pot. He posted several times in a row having a conversation with himself.

I think there may actually be more than one provocateur. It seems it takes one to get it started and the others at times quickly follow and try to pile in.

OP - I too am looking for a reasonable deal in an interesting neighborhood. Last weekend I started looking at DUMBO, Brooklyn Heights and some of the Downtown Brooklyn area. While the prices in these areas are high (perhaps surprisingly high in DUMBO), it would allow me to establish a baseline. It also gave me a chance to check out DUMBO, which I had never explored before, and liked. I plan to continue up through Williamsburg, Greenpoint and maybe LIC, and then look at Red Hook and other Brooklyn points south of the bridges.

Fort Greene looked a lot better than it did when I went to school there in the 1970s, but based on a very quick look it still seemed depressing and lacking in interesting cultural infrastructure. I have not yet checked prices there, but know they aren't giving those Brownstones away. I’ll give it another look before drawing a conclusion.

A quick look at the subway map points out some problems with Greenpoint.

As I walked east from Brooklyn Heights the neighborhoods seemed much less interesting. Safe, but dull.

You might want to walk around too – it gives you a better feel for what the areas are like (especially at night) and you are probably less likely to be attacked in Fort Greene than by rude people on this board.

Good luck!

O please, you people complain about the nasty comments (and I admit sometimes they can be a little too cutting) and yet when the moderators delete them, you bitch and whine, wanting more and more. You keep coming back for more and more scandal, because you like it. Yes, it does go overboard at times and many people are down right nasty but a lot of the posters here open themselves up to it with the outright snobbery. So snobbish in fact, it takes a rude awakening for you to notice. I lived and worked in Manhattan for a very long time and I never had the kind of arrogance regularly displayed on this board. Maybe it was because I had many friends and family who lived in surrounding areas and it to a large extent immunized me from developing a 100% Manhattan centric worldview. If you cant afford it, you cant afford it, no need to tiptoe around the obvious with all this coded language like:

"namely since the neighborhoods which are most convenient to the Midtown central business district (UWS, UES, downtown) are the most expensive in North America, what alternatives to these are the most appealing?"

Which means "I am really, really unsure of myself, so I must have that Manhattan address to make up for the perceived lack of genuine talent or self esteem. I want to be a part of that exclusive crowd and raise my nose to the masses, but I am really one of the masses at the moment and I just cant seem to find a cheap way to live the lifestyle of something close to a billionaire. I dont even have time to wait and make a billion, I have to have it all before the age of 35 or 40. Preferably I would like to have that multi million dollar pad, right out of law school, med school (forget the trip to that poor village in Africa to mend the wounds of the worlds most desperate and needy for a year or two, I have to bilk the health insurance of the poor here first and get that prestige address, a med school degree is a dime a dozen these days and no longer enough to give me the social status I deserve) or the day after I earned my MBA. If I move to the Boroughs, Long Island, Westchester, or Jersey, Ill have to face the fact that I may be like everyone else, even multi million dollar enclaves, like Garden City, Bedford, Todt Hill are not good enough of me. Who wants to live next door to a guy that made his millions as a roofing contractor."

If the above is not the case and you truly and genuinely are clueless as to what lies beyond Manhattan and have no problem living elsewhere but need a quick commute to work my question always becomes:

How did you get the high paying professional job in the city when you can't read a map? (If you came to me to get hired, lived in NY for 2+ years and didn't know what was in the city beyond Manhattan, Williamsburg and LIC, you wouldn't have a chance. Your lack of so much practical knowledge would be an indicator of no common sense and who knows what else.) You want an area that is relatively safe, clean and a quick commute? What kind of expedition does it take to find a place like Astoria? Astoria has been a nice place to live for the last 30 or 40 years (don't like Astoria, how about Staten Island, the ferry ride is a nice, relatively, quick trip downtown). Where the hell have you people been? When I lived in Manhattan, I went to Astoria at least 5 or 6 times a year to try out some of the ethnic food there. I used to go into Greek or Italian restaurants in the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens, that had much better food than places in Manhattan. I thought you all prided yourselves on your great sense of culture and how worldy you all are. Even if you are a frequent world traveler, you have to go to/through Queens or Brooklyn to get to Laguardia or JFK. Ever look out the train window to see what the neighborhoods are like (It would give you at least some idea where to get off if you were too scared to pick a stop at random)? Or did you just skip the train and pay the $100 cab fare to the airport. Luggage? What? You mean you have tons of luggage. I thought you were going to London, Paris, or Milan to get all the latest fashions there and bring them back with you. When you were in the cab, did you think to ask the cabbie about the areas nearby? Don't believe many cabbies can be fountains of local knowledge (want to know if an area is safe, ask a local cabbie, they deal with customers all day and use to be frequent targets of crime...... which makes them very aware and in tune... and many like to talk and share their knowledge.)? Then what the hell kind of New Yorkers are you? You don't have the street smarts to even ask the cabbie on the way to the airport. If that's the case then even though I grew up in New York I don't know what its come too. All the very wealthy people I know personally, (most) have a very deep profound knowledge of the city and its history (they know LIC, because they owned warehouses in LIC). Even Bloomberg takes the subway. Where this latest crop of clueless, trendchasing, HNWIs (some of them seem to be formally savvy city dwellers who have had some form of lobotomy) comes from is more and more of a mystery.

Anyway, in the end, I am too humble and it would be wrong to claim credit for all those witty, down to earth, sarcastic, reality based comments posted above in this thread (as implied by #26).

(and to #21, nope I don't live in Jackson Heights, not that there is anything wrong with it even if I did. I simply made that comment about Jackson Heights in the other thread because the woman was asking about the neighborhood. No inferiority complex on my part, I am just trying figure out the basis for your obviously unwarranted superiority complex.)

>> So snobbish in fact, it takes a rude awakening for you to notice.

And ironicly Bonzo, you show no snobbiness or arrogance in your post...

So Bonzo, Why do you no longer live in Manhattan???? You sound bitter about something - down on your luck a little and can't quite afford the city now that you aren't living with mom and dad???? Maybe that bad attitude got you bounced out of your last job? Or maybe your wife oculdn't stand your negativity any longer and those alimony checks are just too much on your wallet? C'mom, give us the real reason for lambasting those that are just looking for a little advise.

Bonzo, you seem to have a bizarrely particular view of the sorts of things one ought to have done in order to be a worthwhile individual. I have to say, it's hard to see how ones tendencies to strike up conversation with cab drivers on the way to JFK is at all related to the value they'd provide as employees.

Bonzo, you are one warped Dude with a lot of anger. Try a therapist instead of the message boards.

How have the fringe neighborhoods done?

anonymous has been smoking WAY too much crack and has WAY too much time on his/her hands. Honey, there is probably a nice rehab center in your neighborhood, wherever it is. Good luck!

The best fringe area is by far the high East 30s between 5th & 6th Avenues.

There are a number of fabric & button places (though fewer than years ago) that carry fringes of all styles, materials & colors.

By all means, run down there & take a look; you're sure to find what you're looking for. Good Luck!

OMG...I'm not gray anymore! ("Lucy, wha' happen?")

Wow...my postings look 10 years younger ;)

Many thanks, SE - & best wishes for a healthy, happy & prosperous Holiday Season & New Year!

Oh wait...never mind...I'm still gray after all; I didn't realize I was still signed in, which is when it appears black (probably only to me).

Oh well...my best wishes to all remain nonetheless!