Kids In The Hall - unfortunately, not the TV show

tthe coops i live and have lived in strictly prohibit this intrusion on others. When the problem has cropped up from time to time when inconsiderqte parents inflict their screaching, stomping spawn on others, management has posted a notice restating the policy forbidding it and the offenders either stop out of shame or threat of fines and dirty looks. Another reason I prefer coops to condos.

I live in a coop and have a baby who screams with delight every time we are in the hallway/elevator/lobby. I am very conscious of this and as a result the ONLY time I let her in those areas is at 5/6 in the evening when I know no one is sleeping and only for about 10 mins at a time. I would NEVER dream of doing it at any other time, how rude! As a parent, I think you should speak politely to the offending parents and let them know the noise is disturbing you. If they have any decency, they will either keep their kids in the apartment or take them to the park.

If you live in a condo (or co-op for that matter) you can always put in a complaint to the Board of Managers.
I had teenage kids playing SOCCER in the hallway. Of course, their mother allowed it since she was always at home. I have to admit that there are people that refuse to follow common curtesy rules...therefore, those people are now fined for their infractions.
If they don't pay the fines, they accumulate and will be held against them when they decided to sell their apts.

reallystate - It's not the fault of the people (yes, kids are people too) for being heard inside your unit for doing just normal, everyday stuff. Most units in the City have code compliant 1 1/2 hour rated fire doors which are usually cheap metal-hollow-core doors with cheap 1 layer of drywall on walls facing the hallway.

What's next, requiring tip-toeing in the hallways because you can hear footsteps? You should step-up and soundproof your walls facing the hallway and add layers of soundproofing material to your door (replacing hallway door is probably unlikely and too expensive.

I used to hear chatter out in the hallway as if they were inside my unit, until I ""soundproofed" or more like "sound reduced" my entry door and walls.

@10OneWon: You are really off here. You misread the problem. It isn't "just normal, everyday stuff" as you so dismissively attempt to recharacterize the problem. It is residents improperly using common areas as play areas for their children. Common halls are not for children to have play dates in. Passing through is one thing. Even a child acting up in the hall and elevator I find no issue with (how could anyone) because I don't expect parents to gag and bind their children when they are coming and going. But to use the halls as bowling alleys, race tracks, and rec areas is not right. It is selfish and inconsiderate.

i have a similar issue--the kids use the hallway exactly as kyle has said--it is their baseball field, race track, soccer field etc. and they seem to like to do this at just about every hour of the day. the real issue here is that i have seen my neighbors respectfully say something to the mother, and the mother has done nothing but snap back at them. our building has a large playroom too. i just dont get it.

"If they don't pay the fines, they accumulate and will be held against them when they decided to sell their apts."

In our co-op, the fines are added onto the monthly maintenance. If you go past 60 days without paying the fines, the co-op takes legal action.

Place speaker in front of door and play loud porn...problem solved

Reallystate, it always pays to try to handle it directly with the folks involved, and to do it politely and respectfully.

I would try to speak to the noisemakers personally, and say, non-confrontationally, you probably dontt realize that the sound carries, but it does, I hear it all, and it's really distracting.

I suggest trying this first because the noisemakers are people you have to live with, run into in the hallway, at the mailboxes, etc. And it will be more comfortable for you down the road if you try to handle it in a civil manner from the get-go.

Yeah, recently, that's happening in the lobby of my bld. WTF! The lobby is not a playground. Parents are entitled narcissists.

many parents take the path of least resistance with their children. it takes time, energy, and effort to set rules and follow through.

So that's an excuse? explanation?

absolutely not an excuse. possible explanation. it's also possible that they just don't care, but that's probably less likely.

solution: move to NYCMatt's co-op where children are neither seen nor heard, so that you are not disturbed while listening to the Victorola as you go through that day's telegrams.....

seriously, though, 1st try to approach it that they don't realize how loud the noises are, and aren't trying to be a difficult neighbor. If they don't apologize and change the behavior, I would approach a board member and let it move from there. I have little kids so I understand the temptation to just let them run about in the hallway, but it is not acceptable behavior.

"many parents take the path of least resistance with their children. it takes time, energy, and effort to set rules and follow through. "

If your "path of least resistance" includes prolonged annoyance of other human beings, property damage, etc...

Time to rethink your parenting abilities.

If you want a quick solution... find out when they're asleep.... and then play outside THEIR door. Bang it a few times for good measure.

"1st try to approach it that they don't realize how loud the noises are, and aren't trying to be a difficult neighbor. If they don't apologize and change the behavior, I would approach a board member and let it move from there."

DON'T approach a board member.

I get this all the time. Individual board members are not building managers, nor do they have any real authority on their own. Go through the proper channel: Call or write the managing agent. The managing agent will then deal with the problem, or if need be, it will be raised with the board as a whole.

"move to NYCMatt's co-op where children are neither seen nor heard, so that you are not disturbed while listening to the Victorola as you go through that day's telegrams....."

Actually, children are seen and heard only during the briefest of moments during transit in the hallways between their apartments and the outside.

And I listen to the STEREO, thank you very much, while doing my correspondence.

why the labelling, dwell? some of the elderly are entitled jerks, some college kids who vomit in elevators, some childless people who have no tolerance for the normal behavior of children, some parents who have no respect for the rights of others.

this is a situation. and the OP should deal with it. but saying that parents are entitled is a bit much.

swe, have any kids? and btw, as an economy and society we really do need the babies.

> and btw, as an economy and society we really do need the babies.

Agreed.

We also need people to properly raise them.

The children of entitled retards are entitled extra-retards.

that's so wrong, but so funny!

swe, it's not that i categorically disagree with you. parents need to be parents. i also agree with uswmom, people frequently take the path of least resistance. which is wrong. but walk a couple of miles in a parent's shoes and you might see why so many people fuck up one of the most important jobs out there.

it is a huge slog. day in and day out battling with a damned two to seven year old. if you spend those years actively in battle you likely will have success, but it's like willingly submitting yourself to war. in the end it may be worth the battles, but during them sometimes you'd just like some peace.

being one of the parents who has fought her battles, i agree on many levels. but we should always be careful when using labels. for every family who annoys, there are probably ten who are telling their kids that no they can't run like heathens in the hallways.

"And I listen to the STEREO, thank you very much, while doing my correspondence."

is that a quadrophonic stereo, or is that too advanced for you?

the board member will direct you to speak to the managing agent if that's appropriate. usually if you go 1st to the managing agent it won't get anywhere - i doubt if they do anything other than give lip service. in my building the members are fine if you casually approach them about a matter - if they prefer you speak to the managing agent they'll tell you.

I appreciate all of your replies and suggestions folks. It ran the gamut, as expected!
I will speak to the neighbors in as affable an exchange as possible - maybe when I see them outside - just to remind them that early AM might not be the best time to release the kids into the wilds of the halls (in the name of safety; all that elevator traffic!)
Uwsmom - appreciate the honest comment. It was something that def occurred to me.
10neWon - my doors are thick as f**k and child shrieks apparently can permeate lead!
And I would not talk to the Manager or a Board Member. It's not that huge of a deal.
Cheers!

I think part of the problem may be that people decide to raise kids in the city, or decide how much room they need to do without totally thinking out the issues. Unless you are mega-rich, chances are your city kids will not have a playroom...they will have to play in their room or the living space.

The other option is to have them go outside and play. When I was a kid, this was a very acceptable alternative from about age 5...your parents put the fear of God into you not to run out in front of cars and there was enough of a vibrant street life including older people, older kids, storekeepers and others to make sure you didn't get into trouble and tell your mother if you did. I guess today anyone who let their 8 year-old for example play outside their building alone would probably get locked up (although my niece did it Queens that's different). Nobody ever let their kids play in the halls (even though noise wasn't exactly controlled as no one had air conditioned so we all kept doors open in the summer).

If the parents do not want kids playing in the allotted space within their apartment then the apartment is not appropriate for their needs. I am sensitive to the fact, especially given my own situation, that the parents may indeed want desperately to move but may be hindered by economic circumstances. In that case unfortunately, the parents must suck it up and allow their living room couch to become a train track and western fort once again.

Ana one should have live like that. Now that the weather is nicer, let the parents or caregiver take them outside to run off the energy. And if the building does have a playroom (an excellent idea btw...not only for parents but for confirmed non-parents who can avoid those buildings and the maintenance that comes with playrooms), why aren't you using it?

AR is absolutely right parenthood is a really tough job, and one you can't quit no matter how tough it gets. But it is a choice you made and the fact that its tough does not make it right to force others to deal with your difficulty.

When I am on an airplane and a selfish parent let's their kid run up and down the aisle I find that subtly sticking my foot out just as the annoying kid runs by and causing him/her to trip usually causes the offending parent to pick up the child and have him/her sit in his/her seat.

Of course most parents are narcissists. That's why they reproduced to begin with, duh. There's no "need" to have children. No compelling requirement to do so. It is a complete elected choice. In the past people did it because it was expected. Today--especially among well-to-do Manhattanites, children are conceived and spawned to fulfill the parents' wants; they think it will bring them pleasure; it will please them; it will give them purpose; often they are bored with their lives and kids gives them a permanent activity and focus. The kids don't exist before conception, so parents certainly aren't doing it for the then-non-existent kids. That kind of altruism might cover adopting abandoned babies, but it doesn't explain having your own. You create them because you have a narcissistic desires. And then you inflict the monsters on everyone who chose not to engage in this indulgence and tell us all how hard it is. Blech. Keep those germy screaming damage machines locked in your own apartments. I don't want to hear or deal with them in mine.

Puppies on the other hand...now THOSE are friggin CUTE! Why can't we see more puppies in the halls? I'm gonna write the Board a letter about getting more puppies.

^--- Really? Wow... just wow...

True colors are finally out....

Heh-heh. Wanted to see what everyone's take on this was. In light of the data article, it would be interesting to make a note of exactly when the noise starts, how long it goes on for, parties involved, and how many times/week.

I find that the hours when the kids are the craziest are exactly the times it is impossible to have them outside or in playroom. Early in the morning, and right around dinnertime - just when the neighbors would like peace and quiet.

Lizyank: I think this (allowing kids to go outside) changed sometime in the 70s. I was not allowed to go out by myself until early teens (lived in burbs).

KW: yes, breeders are narcissists.

Downtown: there is a terrible stage between 1 and 3 when the alternative to running up and down the aisle is non-stop screaming for hours. I guess the airlines could impose a prohibitive "tax" on people who travel with kids. That is a hard situation for people like me with far-flung extended families.

I have long suggested that the airlines designate certain flights as "family" and others as "business". If you travel with kids on a business flight its up to you to keep them quiet by any means necessary short of outright abuse, and the movies might even be targeted to grown ups (nothing like four crazy days of meetings on the West Coast and then getting on the plane and being informed the movie is "Shazzam" or some such crap). Family flights would have activity kits, flight attendants who are especially kid friendly, kid oriented entertainment and a tolerant attitude for the myriad ways kids can mis-behave mid-air. Personally I would pay somewhat higher fare, the "somewhat" depending on the distance maybe $50 to Chicago $200 overseas, to be a assured a child free flight.

One thing I think the airlines really should do is forbid kids in business/first class. Many people in those cabins are there because they have to be actively working en flight or because they have a particularly brutal schedule to adhere to (as in West Coast and back in less than 24 hours, New York to Bejing and back in 48 hours ) and their companies are allowing them to upgrade as slight compensation for their comfort and of other sleep. Nothing like boarding the Red Eye in business class and finding yourself across from a baby!

If children were allowed to play in the street like nature intended, the smart ones (who probably aren't the ones dripping snot on me as they run around the elevator rubbing their infectious contagions all over the buttons) would survive and the throngs would be thinned out--all Darwin like. Children playing in the streets...hmm...I like it.

@1OneWon: there's no "finally out" here for me as the regulars well know.

"yes, breeders are narcissists"
That's okay. But extending, or projecting, the narcissism to the product of the original narcissism is just obnoxious.
I think in a polite society an individual's narcissism, be it the screaming inconsiderate children or a soprano at 5 am, doesn't trmp the rights of everyone else.

kylewest... That diatribe was very funny.hahaha Thank your mother for not thinking the same as you.

10023 - have you been drinking again? agreeing to such gross generalizations.

I think anyone (ages 0-115) who annoys anyone (ages 0-115) should be banned from being anywhere that such annoyance could take place. i come across plenty of annoying children, teens, adults, and elderly on a regular basis.

come on people!

My mother? Oh no you just di'n' !!!

i had to take the amtrak recently, and happily found myself seated in the 'quiet car'. no cell phones, no children, no loud talking. in my opinion, they should have a quiet car on the long island rail road, metro north, etc... common areas in coops/condos should also have a small sign designating it as a 'quiet area.'

Hey, uwsmom. Nope, COMPLETELY sober. I told my parents when I was 10 that breeders were narcissists. Thus far, I haven't been convinced otherwise by anyone. I am not so far removed from the childless state (and never EVER thinking about children except to think that they were annoying) that I don't understand the particular blinkers that parents have on viz-a-viz their kids. Sure, there are annoying people of all ages, but I think reallystate is referring to a very NYC apartment living conundrum where one IS sympathetic to families with kids and yet one also would appreciate the hallways not being used for playdates/ruckus.

Lizyank: I do feel for people who travel biz and find kids in the cabin. Having said that, I haven't been altruistic enough to decline a free upgrade to biz on an overnight transatlantic flight on Sunday (!) with kids.
My kids are quite good on planes, but should the toddler choose to scream, I'm not sure that there is anything I could do. Bribes don't work on kids that age. Nor do threats or yelling. Not comfortable with dosing them with some sleep aid or spanking (which probably wouldn't work). Luckily, haven't had to resort to anything like that.

Looks like babies and kids are the new underclass for everybody to openly hate. Nowadays, one would be pretty tackless and much more for openly hating on blacks, hispanics, asians, jews and even fat people now...but not babies and kids. Well, the babies haven't formed an anti-baby defamation league yet.

Yeah, they're so horrible. I really hate how short they are. (rolls-eyes, shakes head)

Good point 1onewon. Kids can't vote and have no power so the typical victim crowd picks on them. The weakest link.

1One: i suspect "wry" is not a word your friends would use to describe you.

i totally sympathize with reallystate. i KNOW kids are super annoying. I wanted to throw one of mine out the window today. but, i also think some people just have a very low tolerance for children, period.

and it doesn't sound like reallystate is one of them.

C'mon. Am I the ONLY breeder who's on the side of childless folks? I have kids, I lurve 'em to bits. But. People have the right to some peace and quiet in their corridors. Not pin-drop silence, but IMO, it is unreasonable to use the hallway to play while the grownups chat. I'm taking reallystate's word for it that it is longer than a few minutes and more than once a week (right, really?) Of course, there are exceptions - say, a birthday party in one's apt on a weekend afternoon (bound to be some noise coming and going). And if said noise level were maintained INSIDE the kids' apts and transmitted to the hallway and through really's door, that there would be nothing really could do. But as it is, it's in the hallway, so I think really has the right to complain.

I agree with graffiti. You politely inform the parents that you are trying to work, sleep, etc and the disturbance is probably beyond their awareness.

If they ignore your polite request and the noise continues, then on an early morning when the children should not be in the hallway, run out in the hall completely dazed and confused -- and totally naked-- and shout "Is there a fire, why is everyone screaming?". If you can manage it, add some disgusting bodily noises. The parents will get the message. The children will have to go to therapy. A cost no parent wants to incur. And, you are covered in case the parents file indecent exposure charges-- screaming in the hallways at ungodly hours would only suggest emergency to someone awoken from a dead, ambien-induced sleep. The "ambien made me do it" is a noted defense. I think the problem would end after the first, certainly the second exposure.

1OneWon and finallyjoy, come on. I don't have to like or love or think about your children. You wanted to have them, fine. How is it of anyone else's concern but yours?
Look around. ALL those people (and others) were born. No miracle.

apt23 - unless it gets interesting.

Commoner. You were born. Less than a miracle. Liz, you try to take business class from me I'll come after you with pitchforks. the rudest people I've encountered on flights haven't been children

yes - i absolutely agree that childless folk have a right to peace and quiet. i'm so overly sensitive to the fact that my kids may be annoying people when we're in public (restaurants, etc) that my husband often has to tell me to relax.

From personal experience, your kids are good in restaurants.

Anyways, reallystate, I think everyone is concurring that you should bring it up with the neighbors first. If the behavior doesn't change, then go to the board/management whichever is more appropriate. Then, if nothing works, go naked in hallway.

Uhmm, I don't have babies, kids, or even pets. I just think it's so ridiculous how people actually and truly hate them. Hates them like nazi's hate jews. Hates them like the way the kkk hates blacks and everybody else. Just ridiculous, pathetic, and sad.

uwsmom, you're a delightful exception. Cheers!

1OneWon, get your meds. Now.

ah, but it may be purely narcissistic as i'm most likely concerned about how their behavior will reflect on me.

reallystate - sorry i haven't explicitly stated it - i absolutely think you should speak to the parents directly.

reallystate, I'm in the minority here: I think that the parent already know what's going on and they just don't give a rat's ass. So speaking to them directly may create open hostility, and it'll complicate your life even more.
I'd just let the management company know. Besides the obvious, the kids running in the public areas are a huge liability. If something happens to a child, the building is in deep shit.

commoner, i'm not sure how you and 10023 think that you're in the minority here. just about everyone has been calling for parental accountability. and saying that the parents should be addressed. and the situation isn't correct.1onewon just pointed out that there does seem to be a bias against children. nasty children are nasty children, just like nasty adults are nasty adults.

reallystate, actually I think it's the most neutral approach: it really is a liability to the building. History tells us that the most obnoxious/indulgent parents are the first ones to sue.

what about the ones on terraces?

go naked. only recourse

Don't worry AR, my proposed ban on children would end at age 10 or 12...so you wouldn't be affected.

liz, my child travelled to london and back business class (paid for by the husband's company) at the age of four. she was delightful, and quiet. not so some of the adult passengers.

I never blame children. You watch the parents of impossible children for 10 minutes and you can see why in 95% of cases. And fwiw, and after all my diatribes, I actually like normal kids. I love playing with them and talking to them. I just don't want to own them. I'm the "favorite neighbor" on my floor, the three kids know my name and I know theirs, they say "good morning" and "how are you" from the time they were 3 and ask me to feed their pets when they are away. We have wonderful talks and I look forward to seeing them. Their parents are lovely and loving and somehow never look frazzled when spending time with the 3 small ones. It is the way I remember things (perhaps fogged over the years) from when I was a kid. Carrying on in a public place would have been unthinkable and not tolerated. Somewhere along the decades spawn acting up in public became tolerated along with bad manners and parents who dismiss it all as kids being kids. My mother could take us to a restaurant or department store without a nanny from the time we were toddlers and we acted like we were actually born in civilization and not act as if we'd been rescued from the jungle where we'd been suckled by a pack of hyenas for the early years of our lives. Ok. Enough. Tell those people to get the kids out of the halls. If they don't tell the kids themselves that everytime they play in the hall God drowns a puppy and those dead puppies will come to them as zombies when they sleep and chew off their toes.

nyc10023: "...should the toddler choose to scream, I'm not sure that there is anything I could do. Bribes don't work on kids that age. Nor do threats or yelling. Not comfortable with dosing them with some sleep aid or spanking (which probably wouldn't work)."

In a public situation like that, you can try to redirect her attention instead of focusing on the screaming. Of course only you will know the best way to distract her. For my kids, depending on the age I have tried the following:
1. Start talking to her in a cartoon like / funny voice.
2. Show her pictures on my phone.
3. Start asking her questions like what are her favorite toys, favorite food, etc.
4. Give her something to drink and ask her some questions while she's drinking

She will be properly punished for the bad behavior when we get home of course.

AR: ? I was enjoying everyone's visceral reaction to the picture of tots roaming the hallways. I would be the first to say that I do go about in a semi-oblivious haze 99% of the time outside (can't blame alcohol or drugs) with the kids (rich interior life). If I were the guilty party with the loud kids, I would immediately correct the situation and I would not necessarily be aware that I was being evil. I can say with some confidence that many parents of my acquaintance would also be mortified and correct their kids' behavior and not let it escalate.

Sunday - there is a painful stage when the kid is too old to redirect, too young to bribe. Trust me. They are just MISERABLE because they've spent 2 hours being good on a 7+ hour flight and there's nowhere to go. Punishment when you go home or land - if you're going transatlantic, the time you land on either end kinda works against you. Once you let 24 hours lapse (I'm talking toddlerhood, not a 3yo), the punishment doesn't make sense because they barely remember what it was about. And what are you punishing them for exactly? Not being able to sit still for more than 2 hours in a chair at 2.2?

If you don't have a kid like that, it's because your kid just isn't like that. I have 1 kid who isn't like that and was never like that. Endured 7 hours in the air, 5 hours on the ground w/o needing any kind of entertainment, distraction or conversation.

yes, kw and sunday and 10023, you're all right. but every parent has had one or two truly horrible moments, at the least, they're normal. and they are memorable. to the parent and others who have to view.

and if you happen upon one of somebody's horrible moments don't be so quick to judge. if those horrible moments occur in your hallway with any regularity, that's different.

10023 my comment referred to your comment about being the "only" breeder... no you're not. many breeders have sympathy for others' issues. but it should be balanced, no?

p.s. I'm not talking about < 5 hr flights. They are a walk in the park.

AR: as you know, we humans are not-so-blessed with ability to be in each other's shoes.

The good news is that if you are willing to create fear, you can quickly solve this problem with unruly children. Open the door real quick, scream loud at the children while holding or waiving a hammer or bat, etc., and a quick slam of the door is enough to send the children running to their parents and tiptoeing past your door in future years. A cockeyed glance can help reinforce the silence as needed later down the road.
kylewest also has a good idea for the younger children, the image of drowned puppies is sufficient to give nightmares.

AR, I am sure your child behaved with complete proprietary on a plane. I'm not being facetious I know you and I'm sure you have raised her to be considerate of others even when she was very young. And we also all know drunken assholes, or just plain assholes, who could use some lessons in etiquette, not to mention human decency, 101 (anyone on this board come to mind???) Unfortunately, sometimes the minority pays for the sins of the majority.

Absolutely agree there are meltdown/"truly horrible moment" that any parent will experience and that others are sometimes forced to share, in the elevator, the hall, and yes, even on a plane. In our global world, sometimes grandma's house is 15 hours away and as 10023 says you can't exactly expect a 3 year old to sit still for 7 hours (well I can but that's just my tough luck, and why I'm a firm believer in spay/neuter). But there are situations that don't have to happen based on the judgment of the parents.

For example: when you go to an EJ's or Patsy's pizza another "kid friendly" restaurant you know it will be full of kids and some of them may not be behaving especially nicely. Fine. Many years ago, I took my mother to Gotham Bar and Grill for her 80th birthday, special restaurant for special birthday all of that. Well there were two kids, about six I think, running back and forth through this four star restaurant screaming like banshees. NOT ACCEPTABLE. If you think your children can't behave properly for an upscale restaurant, go somewhere else or leave them home with a sitter. If they are there and won't behave, leave. Don't ruin other people's dinners that they are going to be leaving $150 or more per person for not including the wine.

Play dates in the hall is another example of inconsideration. Meltdowns are unplanned and uncontrollable. There was a girl about 1-2 years old who lived on the floor below my Mom. Cutest thing ever but she would totally go off and scream loudly for hours. Made everyone crazy but you knew the parents were probably getting the worst of it...there was no point and no reason to complain. Playing in the hall can be controlled very easily...don't do it.

And Kyle...I suspected you weren't the child hater you may sometimes appear to be. I think I recall some niece/nephew references that made me think "Uncle Kyle" was hardly a stranger or an antagonist.

Glad it's not my hallway.

You know, we who have no kids are not utterly unreasonable. I know a baby cries on a plane because its ears hurt. And knowing that makes me not want to punch a hole in the plane wall so I can get sucked out and away from the noise. I usually smile at the parent and say, "Relax. Babies cry on planes."

But then there's the hallway garbage in this thread. And as for restaurants, ever eat at a normal place--not Choo Choo Pizza--and the couple with a 2 year old is next to you. The kid is tossing everything in sight on the floor for 45 minutes while the two parents coo over and over at the kid how saying how amazing s/he is for every little insufferable thing the kid does including breathing and swallowing. And when it is time for them to finally leave, beneath the table is a horrific mess. Someone has to clean that mess up. And it is disgusting. Yet, I've seen parents just up and leave without even trying to scoop up the mountain of food/crayons/spoons/cheerios laying all over the place. Or apologizing. As if it is their right to do it because they left an extra tip or something. God knows they don't apologize to anyone for it. A couple recently tried doing that in front of me and I suppose they saw me give them a death stare that the mom made the attempt she ought to have to made earlier to make a poor busboy's life a little easier. That kind of self-absorbtion and/or state of being overwhelmed by raising your own kid drives me nuts.

Not saying ALL parents are narcissists. I said that parents who allow their kids to use the lobby as a playground are entitled Ns. There's a big difference bet the two. Please do not put words in my mouth.

dwell, i didn't put words in your mouth. you wrote "Parents are entitled narcissists."

not some, not these.

and btw, i agree with you all. kids using the hall as a play area is entirely unacceptable. i never implied otherwise.

It's called pediaphobia - the fear and hatred of infants and children. Some of the people have here have embraced their pediaphobia and are proud of it. I'm just glad I'm able to ignore them all.

http://encyclopedia.tfd.com/Pediaphobia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophobia

I stopped back to check on the thread after a night of activities we childless people of NYC freely indulge in (theatre! nightclub/bar!). Some further thoughts:
Commoner - you voiced my deepest, secret fear there, kiddo. I think the 'rents may well be ultra self-absorbed. That's my only concern with approaching them directly. They won't care/notice/get it and I've just created a monster that I have to live with for a long time. Gonna have to think it over and craft a really good script! I am ultra considerate, but as a native NYer, I am also a beyotch.
Various Posters - the nudity suggestions are awesome!
Just a comment on the behavior issue; growing up in the 60s/70s, my siblings and I were taught to act appropriately when out in public. My parents told many stories of people coming up to them in restaurants to compliment our deportment. And it is clearly not the way many children are expected to conduct themselves in this day and age, including some of my own nieces and nephews.

swe kind of nailed it. clueless and entitled parents will raise clueless and entitled children. it's a pretty simple equation.

kyle, you nailed it: when ignorant and rude people feel that they actually blessed the world by spawning. For some reason, it seems like this attitude/problem is most obvious in the US.

reallystate: that's why just go to the management. They're paid to deal with problems.
I think that, unfortunately, with neighbors like these, it's easier to have a "cold war" (dry nod in the elevator?) than to apply to what's not there. In other words, let them hate you as long as they behave.