Pensions killing NY

ah, no doubt you were against vouchers - i am not particularly disposed one way or the other. but charters are going to bust through the limits being imposed on them by the uft and the circus known as albany and its ironic that its mainly will be done by the will of the people. how you reconcile that one?

"Look, it makes no sense for a Yonkers policeman to be able to retire at 40, collect a $110,000/year pension for the next 35 years, and likely not even have a college degree. If that was the deal, you would have had lines down the block to take that job 20 years ago."

Exactly.

Yes folks in support of the unions have this bs claim of "well, that was what was agreed to when they took the job". It wasn't.

"Yes, he deserves a pension but he also needs to work like the rest of us until he is at least near 60."

Agreed. He doesn't have to still be a cop, but the idea of retiring at 40?

And before folks do the "how can they" fake outrage stuff, consider that a HUGE chunk of cops have second jobs already? I can't tell you how many I know that do contracting and such.

"If he has any abilities whatsoever, he should be able to find another job to supplement his pension from this point forward."

Bingo.

If he's disabled, thats one thing, but perfectly healthy folks retiring at 40 is insane.

Somewhereelse,
Another way of asking the question is can Yonkers attract New police without such a generous retirement package. I'd say yes. and if there was some initial problems it could more than be met by reducing the back-end adn increasing the front end(pay while working) Let's be real, Most people are not so forward thinking that they base their career choice on the retirement package.

It is amazing how liberals distort the truth. Military spending is 54% of the budget- if you don't count the massive entitlement spending. Pathetic.

U.S. military spending is 5% of GDP. This for the military that is needed to keep peace all over the world.

Paying healthy people lifetime pensions after 20 years is a disincentive to work. Not too hard to understand.

"and if there was some initial problems it could more than be met by reducing the back-end adn increasing the front end(pay while working"

Of course. Problem is, the unions are against it because the senior guys who run it don't want that.

They were the ones who asked for starting salaries for NYC cops to go DOWN so the back end could go up, increasing pensions. The folks getting MORE than they signed up for are rewarding the city not only by pushing for more, but screwing the new cops as well.

not to mention, they like having the intro salaries low so they can scream "look what THE CITY did to salaries".

Its time for citizens to take a long hard look at what the unions have done.

Conservative Rag New York Times (magazine) did a great piece on the the teacher's unions... made Mulgrew look like the fraud that he is.

Now alan is trying to say that an application process is somehow wrong. More twisted liberal logic.

Perfectly healthy folks retiring, at taxpayer expense for the rest of their lives, is INSANE.

Correction- Perfectly healthy folks retiring in their 40s, at taxpayer expense for the rest of their lives, is INSANE.

come on --- time to fess up. you're still reeling from the circumcision.

97% of MTA/LIRR employees apply for and receive disability pensions. how can any sane person argue that is justified? its no different than the CEOs who pack their compensation committees with cronies to award themselves outlandish option packages, and as if that weren't enough, backdated them.

The place to watch is NJ. I can't remember a high ranking politician so aggressively taking on the union pay structure as he has. And the voters, as evidenced by the widespread rejection of school budgets, are behind him. If he can't push through reforms during this economic / fiscal environment, we are doomed.

I find it outrageous that LIRR employees no longer walk through the cars singing out the station-stops: Maaaaaaaaaaastic Shirley, Speee-onkh next!

Instead, a monotonous synthesized voice.

Crappy union.

We also need guaranteed benefits for domestics -- vacation, sick days, etc.

Don't worry fellows, Obama and the left wing boys will bankrupt us soon. All pension contracts will be invalid.

obama....look what he done us

yes, indeed. obama has been secretly in power for the last thirty years.

"97% of MTA/LIRR employees apply for and receive disability pensions. how can any sane person argue that is justified?"

Its called the Democratic propaganda playbook. Whether its insanity or corruption, I'm not sure.

do the republicans even have a playbook any longer? other than saying no. to whatever.

the dems aren't making me too happy, but the republicans are. they are more disorganized and factionalized than the dems could hope to be, and that's REALLY saying something.

bring on rand and sarah. hellyeah.

'Don't worry fellows, Obama and the left wing boys will bankrupt us soon. All pension contracts will be invalid'

so true, so sad.

When the Dems are pushing policies harmful to this country, I'm glad the Republicans are saying no.

The Dems are just as factionalized or more than the Republicans. You are naive if you think they are not.

ar, took a look at the link. catchy title on the act but alas no traction for the bill. think we all knew that anyway but really dug his tie. oh, and looks like licc didn't combust either. was food for thought, will give you that and good theatre too.

Maaaaaaaaaaastic Shirley, Speee-onkh next!

rf, usually i like substance, but a little theater never hurts. i doubt grayson will be reelected (although i haven't seen any numbers, maybe i'm wrong), but love him or hate him he does provide food for thought.

> do the republicans even have a playbook any longer? other than saying no. to whatever.

Why is "republicans suck too" the ONLY answer the democrats can come up with?

They both suck, simple.

But the democrats are IN POWER. Why can't they come up with anything other than "not bush" and "republicans are worse".

They have horrible, horrible ideas and too much corruption... perhaps its time they start looking at themselves, not the folks who aren't in power.

""97% of MTA/LIRR employees apply for and receive disability pensions. how can any sane person argue that is justified?"

And the MATA wastes millions of dollars on security cameras that do not work. Instead of blaming unions, why not blame management?

"And before folks do the "how can they" fake outrage stuff, consider that a HUGE chunk of cops have second jobs already? I can't tell you how many I know that do contracting and such."

So what? Maybe they need the money. NYPD cops make 25% less than the average suburban cop, FYI.

"No I'm not. Overtime is extra pay for EXTRA WORK. If overtime is killing the budget, management's solution is simple: STOP WORKING EMPLOYEES OVERTIME."

It's cheaper to give overtime than it is to hire new workers. Less benefits this way. Your only paying 1 health insurance premium instead of 2.

"we are paying our civil servants the most - i know teachers who make over $150k/year"

Who? According to the DOE website, the max salary for a teacher is $100k. Please give names or shut up and stop spewing anti union nonsense.

The leader of the regime, Obama will just print more money to pay off the union thugs.

>And the MATA wastes millions of dollars on security cameras that do not work. Instead of blaming unions, why not blame management?

The answer is - BOTH are to blame. The management are state employees also?

>So what? Maybe they need the money. NYPD cops make 25% less than the average suburban cop, FYI
FYI we talk about NY cops, not NYPD specifically. The article mentions Yonkers cops as an example.

"The management are state employees also?"

Management is NON UNION, non-civil service. They are cronies appointed by the governor, Bloomberg, and the suburban county executives.

I will be in a perfect position when everything is reset to zero! Yessss!

>Who? According to the DOE website, the max salary for a teacher is $100k. Please give names or shut up and stop spewing anti union nonsense.

Cold Spring Harbor Central Schools Cold Spring Harbor Central Schools (Professional) Andrews, Michael A Ndr $156,445
Amityville Union Free Schools Amityville Union Free Schools (Professional) Andrews, Scott J Ndr $173,403
Copiague Union Free Schools Copiague Union Free Schools (Professional) Andrews, Todd J Ndr $152,245
Sewanhaka Central Schools Sewanhaka Central Schools (Professional) Angelillo, Valerie E Ndr $156,473
Yonkers Public Schools Yonkers Public Schools (Professional) Angresano, Michael J Ndr $152,248
Elwood Union Free Schools Elwood Union Free Schools (Professional) Annucci, Robert A Ndr $171,104
Bayport-Blue Point Union Free Schools Bayport-Blue Point Union Free (Professional) Annunziato, Anthony J Ndr $233,160
Farmingdale Union Free Schools Farmingdale Union Free Schools (Professional) Anselmo, Carol E Ndr $153,091

and 1800 more over 150k

http://www.seethroughny.net/Payrolls/EmployeeSearch/tabid/69/Default.aspx

Random check on Andrews, Michael A:

http://www.ratemyteachers.com/michael-andrews/98885-t

History teacher

Those Andrews boys ain't dumb!

>Management is NON UNION, non-civil service. They are cronies appointed by the governor, Bloomberg, and the suburban county executives.

They were appointed by politicians? Wasn't that the point of the discussion also? Crooked politicians paying off crooked unions?

darkbird, point taken: NYC needs to pay its teachers more to stay competitive with the burbs.

There was no data for 2009, here is the data for 2008 and looks incomplete to me. These are base salaries.

130k + 1% annual increase over 2 years would hit 150k?

Education, Department of Baris, Rita Teacher Annual $110,759
Education, Department of Bye, Bridgit Teacher Annual $130,828
Education, Department of Edwards, Brenda Teacher Annual $110,759
Education, Department of Firat, Erika Teacher Special Education Annual $110,759
Education, Department of Fleischman, Heidi Teacher Annual $110,759
Education, Department of Flores, Mary Teacher Annual $110,759
Education, Department of Glazer, Judith Teacher Annual $110,759
Education, Department of Klingsberg, Joan Teacher Annual $130,828
Education, Department of Kouriampalis, Georgia Teacher Annual $130,828
Education, Department of MacConnell, Christine Teacher Special Education Annual $110,759
Education, Department of Marcell, Christine Teacher Annual $118,341
Education, Department of Michelena, Adaleza Teacher Annual $130,828
Education, Department of Napolillo, John Teacher Annual $110,759
Education, Department of Nizam, Laura Teacher Annual $110,759
Education, Department of Parker, Doris Teacher Annual $110,759
Education, Department of Rosen, Elissa Teacher Special Education Annual $110,759
Education, Department of Soviero, Kathleen Teacher Annual $110,759
Education, Department of Williams, Esther Teacher Annual $110,759

oh and there are over nyc 7.5k teachers with base salaries of 100k in 2008.

>130k + 1% annual increase over 2 years would hit 150k?

oh and i am too tired to do math .for some reason i started to calculate 10%. night.

darkbird, why are you so hung up on what these small towns pay their teachers? Get over it.
This is how it works. Those towns want the best teachers so they offer to pay more and hire those that they perceive as the best. The have to charge higher property taxes on their small pool of residence to cover this. However, its worth it in the end because the people don't pay an extra 34K per student sending them to unnecessary private schools. Also the towns become desirable to live-in because they have a reputation of having excellend schools. Actually it makes a lot of sense to me.

@mmarquez110

Are you saying that nys doesn't pay these people pensions? I wonder why NYS taxes/fees/charges keep rising?

Why don't you enlighten me about that? What would be New York State Teachers Retirement System for?
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/New_York_state_spending.html

Nice debt increases. Does it make sense to you?

There is a very strong possibility in my mind that the Federal Government will assume a great deal of the unfunded state and union pension obligations and then either the tax the hell out of us or depreciation the currency.

@the President- HELLO do you read- the other post clearly stated that most of Westchester and LI pays their teachers up to that amount. And believe me those teachers are not good- they sit in these rich neighborhoods collecting their absurd pay and then complain -the average salary for a teacher in some of these places in over $100k and some make up to $150k. We should be paying our teachers like they do in CT in keep the property taxes down. I know people whose property taxes have DOUBLED over the past 10 years because to keep the teachers cushy salaries rising.

The Bankrupting of America, by Mortimer Zuckerman
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703315404575250610059801620.html

And From the other post which you obviously did not both to read:

And it does matter- these teachers pay/benefits/pensions are also part of the NYS budget which is going bust

In LI, and Westchester- take a look at Scarsdale, Great Neck, Jericho, Hewlett-Woodmere,Briarcliffe, Bronxville, etc :

http://myshortpencil.com/newyorkteachersalaries.htm

myshortpencil - nice title. However it has one of the most misleading sentences on the page that I've ever read :"In 2007-08, 47% of NY teachers worked in school districts paying teacher salaries exceeding $100,000."
What does that even mean? That at least one teacher in their district makes 100K? What are you supposed to conclude from that?

5thgen - don't these towns vote their own budgets? They can spend the $$ on whatever they want. I grew up in a small CT town that voted by budget referendum every year. Every single freaking year they wasted 10s of thousands voting down the budget repeatedly and then ended up cutting education funds. My high school actually went on probation for their accreditation, thats how crappy the school was. Ridiculous. This was in fairfield county.

Anyways, I've just been arguing about teacher salaries. I'm not going to prentend like I understand how the pension system works, who pays what, etc. It seems like if a town has higher paid teachers than they should pay more $$ towards the pension fund.

Yes youre right about the budgets- i know two districts right next to each other one where they've voted down the budget pretty much every year and the teachers are still paid more than in NYC. I know 30 year old teachers in some of these districts making ~$100k.

And to answer your question about the "47%...." although i obvisouly didnt put that website together, you can go to this link and search by school district and see that in many school districts a lot of teachers are at over $100k (per district).

http://www.seethroughny.net/Payrolls/StatePayroll/tabid/69/Default.aspx?BRANCHID=6

A great many teachers work six hour days, have summers off, and recycle old lesson plans and tests. So we end up having a system where parents who care and are of means send their kids to private schools and te teacher's union works to protect the perks of the public school teachers. A system of high pay and low performance of teachers is a joke.

100% agreed with you RS.

20 years ago when i was in HS many teachers I had did just that- they had their old, yellowed, lesson plans that they still used from 20 years before that. And they only taught 4 out of 9 periods per day which was less than 3 hours/day.

marquez- those suburban teachers drain the NYS pensions. You missed the point on that one.

And those salaries are not so high because they need to attract the most talent. That may be part of it, but a major part is union manipulation of the politicians.

"And believe me those teachers are not good-"

Then explain why these schools in the wealthy subrubs are among the best achools in the country.

Peer group. Socio-economic background. Culture. Take your pick.

"We should be paying our teachers like they do in CT in keep the property taxes down. I know people whose property taxes have DOUBLED over the past 10 years because to keep the teachers cushy salaries rising."

Your such a fool. In the burbs, the bulk of the money goes to pay COPS, not teachers. Unlike teachers, cops can work virtually unlimited overtime. In northern NJ, there are cops who make more money than the county prosecutor. And teachers... they are at the bottom of the pay scale. I know of several districts where the starting salary is in the low 30s.

And believe me those teachers are not good-"

"Then explain why these schools in the wealthy subrubs are among the best achools in the country."

Because the parents actually give a damn and don't treat schools like a babysitter service

"A great many teachers work six hour days, have summers off, and recycle old lesson plans and tests."

Now we have idiot #2. First off, teaachers do other things than teach, like grading exams, re-vamping the curriculum. So even when they are not teaching, they are working. And they don't just work 6 hours a day. Many teachers coach sports after school, hold detention, grade assignments, and attend meetings.

When I went to HS, we had a 7 hour day. Some teahers came in 1 hour before school started since the honors kids had an 8 hour day. And at the end of the day, many coached. So they essentially worked 9 hour days, not 6.

nyc has bled the sh*t out of social programs and laid off tons and tons of civil servants, and will only continue to do more of the same. and then we take away meals for the elderly so we can build big stupid "citi fields" that are ill-timed and totally unnecessary.
the problem is that the government is in bed with corporate america and we are subsidizing our future away for the sake of power and greed. the richest companies and people get sweetheart deals and everyone else gets choked. the politicians get bankrolled and it's a never-ending circle jerk, this is destroying not only the economy but the whole country.
i would feel the same regardless of my familiy's history, as long as it was still a respectable history, meaning that i was not raised as a rich spoiled brat with no concept of reality. i guess i'm a bleeding heart liberal. sue me..
do you know how much money the city p*sses away on cosmetic crap like new bus stands?

The new bus stands don't cost the city anything - CEMUSA pays the city.

thanks glamma, for telling it--too busy here at work to write

nyc matt said it too ( im shocked to be able to say )

President- you are wrong again- the majority of the property taxes on these houses go to the schools.

Go to www.mnynassauproperty.com and pick an address in Nassau and go to the General and School taxes tab and you'll see.

My friends in a nice suburb on LI pay nearly $33k in property taxes, of which $26k is SCHOOL TAXES WHICH PAY THE TEACHERS and $7k of GENERAL TAXES WHICH WOULD PAY FOR THINGS LIKE THE COPS.

And of the top 100 high schools not that many are in these high-paid districts:
http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/high-schools/2009/12/09/americas-best-high-schools-gold-medal-list.html?PageNr=1

Which since the US has such a low ranking among develped countries in turns of education rankings, wouldnt say much anyway:

http://teachersunionexposed.com/international.cfm

And this article also proves you are wrong about NJ property taxes:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704113504575264663842523880.html

The education comparison is important because so many public schools depend on property taxes for funding. In many New Jersey towns, for example, school spending consumes more than two-thirds of the town's budget. That makes the public school budget the de facto municipal budget.

I just got out of my orientation for my new nyc teaching program. And gues what,not a single person said anything other than it will be extremely difficult , especially the firsf couple years. And that many of us will fail at first but we need to learn and to keep going. Do I beoieve them or the ppl on the se board? Let me think about that one.

The people on the board will say that the people in your program are stupid and lazy and greedy, because they are teachers. And that it wouldn't be extremely difficult for normal hardworking people, only for teachers who never work and live the life of Riley.

>I just got out of my orientation for my new nyc teaching program.

You should be developing your own programs, not just following them. The program give you direction, but you must make interesting and go in-depth in the matter of the subject.

You graduated with MS in social work, do you think I'll believe you that the new program is hard? Hard what? To learn? To explain? To teach? To calculate?

So let me really think about it?

"You should be developing your own programs, not just following them. The program give you direction, but you must make interesting and go in-depth in the matter of the subject."

Yeah, just try veering one iota from Boston Bloomberg's mandated "teacher development" and see what kind of "performance" review you get.

"You graduated with MS in social work" ... what do you think you are, an engineering Ph.D. or something?

The leader of the regime is bankrupting the country. The union thugs and the corrupt politicians will drag this once great country into socialism. If you don't understand the leader of the regime's philosophy, you are as guilty as the fools promoting it.

>what do you think you are, an engineering Ph.D. or something?
I am the one who can do your job better then you.

>just try veering one iota from Boston Bloomberg
Who cares what someone mandates, its about results. If results are bad, there is no one but YOU to blame. Do you think it was because I was quiet that I was rising quickly in corporate ranks? Or because I was making the right calls AND made them a reality?

Use your own brain, stop blaming others.

"what do you think you are, an engineering Ph.D. or something" ... I was using your voice, talking to mmarquez, not "you".

"If results are bad, there is no one but YOU to blame." Not when one of El Generalisto's "auditors" removes you from your classroom for not completely towing the line.

If you didn't notice I have a very low opinion of the US public education system, telling me that its HARD to learn a new school program makes me cry. I'd understand its hard to solve the poincare conjecture, understand the structure of sub atomic particles, develop a new drug treatment, write a great poem or music that will be remembered 300 years later.

Darkbird I. Can't tell if you're being dense on purpose. The challengr is in making math interesting to a clas of 20 or 30 when many of them are already far behind. That is called teaching.

"Math? What does a social worker know about math?"

I have a friend who gave up a highly-paid career to become a teacher in the south bronx. harder than anything he had ever done.

"The people on the board will say that the people in your program are stupid and lazy and greedy, because they are teachers."

No, the people here think that the people in your program are stupid and lazy and greedy because they are in a union.

""You should be developing your own programs, not just following them. The program give you direction, but you must make interesting and go in-depth in the matter of the subject."

How about you don't tell someone how to do their job and they won't tell you how to do your job?

Teaching is hard work.
Many civil servant occupations are essential to our well being.

Gaming the system should be a crime.

darkbird perhaps you could try doing a week teaching 3rd grade in brownsville.
nyc10023, good point, does anyone have a link to the actual nyc budget breakdown or something that even approximates it?
looking at what capitalism is doing to the world these days, socialism is looking better all the time...

>How about you don't tell someone how to do their job and they won't tell you how to do your job?

I already proved so many times on this thread my dear friend. Scroll up.

I am paying your salary? Correct - my taxes.
You're providing bad results? Correct - us ed systems lags behind.

I have all the rights to tell you what I think about you. Don't like it? Quit and work for someone else

>Gaming the system should be a crime.

Oh that's the point of this conversation, teaching right is HARD. But who teaches right in NYC?

> darkbird perhaps you could try doing a week teaching 3rd grade in brownsville.
Useless argument, what do you mean try? Anyone can try.

> nyc10023, good point, does anyone have a link to the actual nyc budget breakdown or something that even approximates it?

http://www.nyc.gov/html/omb/html/publications/finplan06_09.shtml

It's mostly not about the teachers. It's the students and the parents. Might I make a suggestion that the people on this board and other boards are not the parents of the vast population of NYC public school students and have absolutely nothing in common with them.

glamma "looking at what capitalism is doing to the world these days, socialism is looking better all the time" Just about the dumbest comment ever.. Greece...SOCIALIST Europe... SOCIALIST America... A social welfare state... Please glamma tell me where is the capitalism?

"Just about the dumbest comment ever.. Greece...SOCIALIST Europe... SOCIALIST America... A social welfare state... "

Somalia and Haiti are capitalist. They are a teabagger's paradise... limited government, no taxes, and no regulations.

>It's mostly not about the teachers. It's the students and the parents. Might I make a suggestion that the people on this board and other boards are not the parents of the vast population of NYC public school students and have absolutely nothing in common with them.

Can I continue your thought, what happens if these "bad" students grow up and become teachers? And lets get a couple of cycle of that? Now who's fault is that, the teachers who were the bad students or the bad students?

Oh please. You know what the graduation rate is? Exclude the selective high schools. These kids are not finishing HS let alone 4-year colleges.

the president "Somalia and Haiti are capitalist. They are a teabagger's paradise... limited government, no taxes, and no regulations. " Great: Americans don't even know what capitalism is. Must be that nyc public education.

That aright, dat ok, u gonnah pump my gas sumday

The_President...Hey Einstein.. Haiti and Somalia are dictatorships. Please look up capitalism and educate yourself.

Hey finallyjoy/julialrg, you still don't know shit about economic systems.

greece? the place where capitalist goldman sachs and banks made a fortune facilitating over-leveraging, along with greece, spain, portugal--there's capitalism at work in the world--makes me damned proud!!

and finallyjoy, in case you hadnt noticed, the US aint at all about free-market capitalism--we are a system of socialism for big corporations and the rich, powerful and too big to fail

the redbaiting rhetoric just dont fly given recent events--you and roy cohn would make a great couple

capitalism in the us has become a place where the weak and the poor get to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps"...lest they rip off the wealthy as unions seek to represent them---our problems are really all about the overpaid under and working classes--lazy, greedy, overpriviledged that they are

what 10023 said. this system is a disgrace but the reasons for that are both simple and extraordinarily difficult to remedy.

yes, blame ms. smith the seventh grade NYC teacher for our woes. I'll look to Greenspan and paulson. choices, choices.

[ finallyjoy takes a big slug of Milwaukee's Best and power-belches for thirty-seconds, then lets out an SBD ]

Wbottom.. aboutready.. alanhart.. larry... moe...curly

They should just put hormones to regulate ovulation cycles in the drinking water.

> this system is a disgrace but the reasons for that are both simple and extraordinarily difficult to remedy.

No, not simple at all. Can't blame students, really you can't. Of course it isn't just the 7th grade teachers...

Lets see in no particular order:

a) religion, like texas new books
b) corporations, printing books, provide equipment, whatever.
c) politicians, bribes, idealogical, etc
d) corrupt systems because of the above: teachers wanted to abuse it. Who lead school principals, admin positions that earn incredible sums of money?

there are probably a lot more reasons on various levels.

finallyjoy pitiful. how's your health insurance working out for you? I love the smell of redistribution of risk in the morning.

I think a big part of the problem with the US education system is the babysitting/jailkeeping approach. A couple of generations ago, relatively few people graduated from high school, and quite a few didn't even begin it. But with automation, and now overseas outsourcing, we need to keep lots of people out of the job market.

The emphasis is on preventing dropouts and truancy, and with good cause: federal education dollars are directly tied to daily attendance. School systems like federal education dollars.

Add to that the fact that it's not just a raw numbers game -- those who would otherwise get menial jobs for life tend to come from homes that don't stress education. So not only do they glut the schools, but they struggle (or fail to struggle) to keep up, diverting teachers from teaching to level, and bringing other students down with them.

I'm thoroughly convinced that the only thing that could make a dent against that key problem is tiny class size, and that ain't gonna happen even if teachers were young unmarried women who get paid subsistence wages, living in boarding houses and occasionally dining as guests of their students' families, until they meet a sad but upstanding widower, get married, and (of course) stop teaching.

That's what blackhawk wants.

finallyjoy, you're pounding forties of Milwaukee's Best, aren't you?

Darkbird I totally disagree. the problem is simple. teachers aren't allowed to teach. all of the things you list are part of the remedy.

I started out my life in NYC in educational publishing. didn't last long but learned a huge amount. states could break the Texas stronghold quite easily. but they don't. fuck Texas should be a national motto.

I think the expectation is that in this electronic age it's easier for publishers to create separate editions for Texas and for the free world. But those poor kids in Texas. Now's a good time to open a chain of for-profit private schools in Texas, for those parents who don't want post-apocalyptic schooling.

>teachers aren't allowed to teach.

We should have a new motto then?

The leader of the regime should tell all teachers how and what to teach.

Uh, yeah killjoy ... El Generalisito Boston Bloomberg does exactly that.

Whole-heartedly agree, alan. But I don't think we as a society are ready to let 12 year olds loose on the streets without their "jail". Hmm.