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The Inevitable is Coming

Started by ukrguy
over 15 years ago
Posts: 142
Member since: Jun 2009
Discussion about
By Oshrat Carmiel June 4 (Bloomberg) -- When Richard J. Bailes and his family paid $4.1 million in March for a four-bedroom apartment in the glass and steel Georgica on Manhattan’s Upper East Side, just eight of the building’s 58 units were occupied, he said. Bailes and his family had plenty of places to choose from. About 8,700 new condos sit empty in Manhattan, with 75 percent not even listed... [more]
Response by ukrguy
over 15 years ago
Posts: 142
Member since: Jun 2009

Looks like we are in for some interesting times in Manhattan real estate.

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Response by dcorreale
over 15 years ago
Posts: 99
Member since: Feb 2009

This is the key line, it has been a stalemate for 2 years now. The Equity holders (developer), have no incentive to cut prices below a threshold in which they fail to make any money, they are essentially holding options right now. And the debt holders are more worried about appearances on their books rather than cutting prices and getting most of their money back. The result is they will be forced to sell at a further discount in the future...unless of course the market does comeback, but I fail to see any support for that option

“The original developer isn’t interested in any pricebelow the value of his interest and the lender isn’t interested
in writing it down until they’re forced to for regulatory
reasons,” she said. “That accounts for the paralysis right
now.”

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Response by NYRENewbie
over 15 years ago
Posts: 591
Member since: Mar 2008

Meanwhile, I keep waiting for this reality to set in. In the meantime, bought a great place in Miami Beach for 43% of the price it originally sold for. Wouldn't it be great to be able to do that in NYC?

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Response by bob_d
over 15 years ago
Posts: 264
Member since: May 2010

There's a huge difference between Miami and Manhattan. There are huge numbers of people who would like to live in Manhattan but can't afford it. In Miami, they have condos that are almost free compared to a Manhattan condo.

And I don't see the rents in Manhattan being so cheap as the article says.

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Response by squarefoot
over 15 years ago
Posts: 49
Member since: Oct 2008

bob- i negociated 3 months free plus parking in my lease. so listed rents may not be reflective of actual situation.
and your right, their are huge numbers of people who cant afford it- so they dont live here. also, there are huge numbers who want to leave too. not trying to be a party pooper, but the market will stabilize until it doesnt, and we can keep saying its different here, and it will be different until it isnt. it seems like fundementals look bad.

i know, i suck at spelling

not looking so close at rentals anymore, but just in my community of friends/acquaitances, either they bought before end of april, or they are not buying.
43% sounds pretty high, but if we've already come down 20% (?), it may not be such a stretch.

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Response by aboutready
over 15 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007

It's obama's fault. he forced them to overbuild and he neglected to create enough high-paying jobs. it's obvious.

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Response by alanhart
over 15 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007

And then he pushed through offshore oil rigging, just so it could explode and then he can FORCE communistic energy, like wind and solar and tidal, on us.

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Response by Wbottom
over 15 years ago
Posts: 2142
Member since: May 2010

dont forget that he bought drugs and prostitutes for minerals and mining folks

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Response by glamma
over 15 years ago
Posts: 830
Member since: Jun 2009

AND he has nightly satanic rituals in the backyard of the white house where he prays to mephistopheles and sacrifices kittens. can you believe this guy?

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Response by w67thstreet
over 15 years ago
Posts: 9003
Member since: Dec 2008

Isn't he Muslim? And not born in the us? I demand to see a birth certificate!

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Response by aboutready
over 15 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007

I heard he brought bedbugs into the white house

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Response by alanhart
over 15 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007

He's too skinny ... probably doing horse. In fact, didn't he have a big dinner for a big Mexican drug lord recently?

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Response by w67thstreet
over 15 years ago
Posts: 9003
Member since: Dec 2008

Now that palin chick. She's my kinda daisy duke milf.

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Response by printer
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1219
Member since: Jan 2008

so Georgica, a much maligned high end condo in the supposedly doomed for disaster upper east side, which is right in the 2nd ave subway construction zone, which only started marketing units after the peak and after Bear failed, has 70% of its units either in contract or already closed. sounds pretty impressive to me. i don't know much about new condo economics or the specifics of this building, but at 70% I'd say they are pretty close to bread even already. hardly a great example of impending doom.

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Response by glamma
over 15 years ago
Posts: 830
Member since: Jun 2009

ooooh yeah palin. that chick knows the score. she knows all the dirty environmentalists are the ones who really caused the oil spill. spread the word to the herd palin, educate america. i love republicans! so rich and powerful, plus they love jesus

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Response by Topper
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1335
Member since: May 2008

Another hijacked thread.

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Response by alanhart
over 15 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007

Topper, stay on topic. I'd go lezbo for that Sari Palin' ... them workin' girls is hot!

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Response by apt23
over 15 years ago
Posts: 2041
Member since: Jul 2009

Printer: I count 26 apts closed at Georgica -- not counting the commercial unit. 8 in contract. So, possibilities

a. SE info is woefully wrong
b. since this number would not make 50% of building, broker is assuming that when they hit 50% in sales then at least 20% of the building will be sold instantaneously to the people waiting for that moment when they can get loans. And in broker business terms you should be able to count the people who mentioned to you that they would like to buy.
c. the broker lied to the press

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Response by printer
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1219
Member since: Jan 2008

absolutely apt23. we could either assume that a prestigious news organization like bloomberg does absolutely no fact checking and is a complete shill for some random broker, take the numbers reported in a piece that is clearly negative on new development sales at face value and analyze them as such, OR
we could assume a nefarious plot by all involved and manufacture numbers which better suit our agenda to then analyze. it is up to you.

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Response by aboutready
over 15 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007

How long did district claim to be 80 percent sold?

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Response by itsik
over 15 years ago
Posts: 7
Member since: May 2010

i agree there is a huge diff between miami and manhattan
miami has 2 i's 2 m's and 1 a manhattan has only 1m 3 a's !! and NO i's

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Response by SkinnyNsweet
over 15 years ago
Posts: 408
Member since: Jun 2006

OMP is still SOLD OUT!!!

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Response by apt23
over 15 years ago
Posts: 2041
Member since: Jul 2009

Printer: I have found that many RE reporters are quoting SE numbers. I know that SE numbers are not necessarily 100% accurate particularly since it sometimes takes a couple of days to make it from acris to SE. But the diff between 26 and 32 apts sold (closed) is fairly substantial. And yes, I would bet bloomberg did not have a separate fact checker on this story. My husband is a journalist and editor and knows that fact checking depts have been cut to bone. He is mortified at the number of reporters that don't check or double check facts. Happens all the time . I would be surprised if that building is 70% sold

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Response by maly
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1377
Member since: Jan 2009

I agree, knowing media organizations' bare newsrooms, the likelihood this article was fact-checked is slim to none.
So printer, the alternative should be, what is more likely, that a broker lied or that a journalist checked all facts independently?

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Response by w67thstreet
over 15 years ago
Posts: 9003
Member since: Dec 2008

I agree. The media is not fact checking how hot palin is. It is absurd that we middle Americans have been denied our liberties! Damn these here lane markers! And stop signs!

Back on topic, you are welcome.

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Response by alanhart
over 15 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007

Stop signs are not authorized under the Constitution of the United States of America.

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Response by nyc10023
over 15 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008

Eeh, W67. Didn't figure you for a white-fleshy-mama-loving-boy.

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Response by aboutready
over 15 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007

Yes. Those glasses are sending way too many mixed signals. Do her once? Maybe. Anything more? Doubtful. And that seems low on the milf scale to me.

She's an milf most would like to do and move on. Although what do I know? Maybe that's typical milfness.

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Response by cccharley
over 15 years ago
Posts: 903
Member since: Sep 2008

back to the original topic - it's about time and it will take more time but I think it's coming = especially with the strength of the dollar coupled with unemployment

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Response by aboutready
over 15 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007

ok, ok, if you insist. azure, isn't this a tempting offer? no units listed in contract, wouldn't you like to go where no one has gone before? do hsbc and jpm's shareholders know about this? who said the bubble is dead? at least they're not option arms, just IO.

What’s New at Azure????

Financing is new at Azure! HSBC Mortgage Corp. and JP Morgan Chase are now on board as preferred lenders providing mortgages up to $5MM. HSBC is providing mortgages with NO Presale Requirement (once Azure declares effective)! Interest Only 5 & 10 year ARM’s along with 30 year fixed are currently available at competitive rates! Loans are available up to 80% of Value.

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Response by sidelinesitter
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1596
Member since: Mar 2009

If I understand apt23's conspiracy theory (or perhaps it's simply an incompetence theory) about reporters and brokers, the difference between 26 closed sales (actually 26 + a couple of weeks of closed sales not yet in ACRIS/SE) and 32 is fundamental. OK, so let's change printer's 70% to 60%. Everyone happy now? Any more nitpicking on the numbers, or shall we return to the actual point...which is that printer's argument still makes sense and Georgica still fails to qualify as a herald of impending doom? To give credit where credit is due, it looks like aboutready and Skinny figured this out well before I did, so they just skipped the Georgica discussion and went straight to actual troubled buildings like District, OMP and the Azure.

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Response by sidelinesitter
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1596
Member since: Mar 2009

w67, I just wanted to know what you meant by milf. I liked this definition myself:
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/04/matthews_and_maher_discuss_app_1.html

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Response by ukrguy
over 15 years ago
Posts: 142
Member since: Jun 2009

By Bob Willis
June 9 (Bloomberg) -- An index of mortgage applications in
the U.S. fell to the lowest level since April as purchases
declined for a fifth straight week and refinancing plunged.
The Mortgage Bankers Association’s index decreased 12
percent in the week ended June 4. The Washington-based group’s
refinancing gauge dropped 14 percent while the measure of
purchases fell 5.7 percent to the lowest level since February
1997.
The expiration of a buyer tax credit at the end of April
may be reducing demand, indicting home sales will struggle
without more jobs. With millions of homeowners owing more than
their houses are worth, fewer Americans are in a position to
refinance even as borrowing costs approach record lows on
mounting concerns of sovereign defaults in Europe.
“There is anecdotal evidence suggesting housing demand is
weakening after the expiration of the tax credit,” Julia
Coronado, a senior economist at BNP Paribas in New York, said
before the report. “This is a golden opportunity to refinance,
given risk aversion in global markets, but there are not thatmany people who are still eligible.”
The share of applicants seeking to refinance a loan
declined to 72.2 percent last week from 73.8 percent the prior
week.
The average rate on a 30-year fixed loan fell to 4.81
percent from 4.83 percent the prior week. Rates reached a record
low of 4.61 percent in March 2009 after the Federal Reserve
expanded a mortgage-purchasing plan aimed at reducing lending
rates. The program ended in March of this year.

Monthly Payments

At the current 30-year rate, monthly payments for each
$100,000 of a loan would be about $525, down $47 from a year ago
when the rate was 5.57 percent.
The average rate on a 15-year fixed mortgage rose to 4.26
percent from 4.24 percent, and the rate on a one-year adjustable
mortgage declined to 6.94 percent from 6.96 percent.
The tax credit for first-time homebuyers, which was
extended in November to include some current owners, required
contracts be signed by April 30 and settled by June 30.many people who are still eligible.”
The share of applicants seeking to refinance a loan
declined to 72.2 percent last week from 73.8 percent the prior
week.
The average rate on a 30-year fixed loan fell to 4.81
percent from 4.83 percent the prior week. Rates reached a record
low of 4.61 percent in March 2009 after the Federal Reserve
expanded a mortgage-purchasing plan aimed at reducing lending
rates. The program ended in March of this year.

Monthly Payments

At the current 30-year rate, monthly payments for each
$100,000 of a loan would be about $525, down $47 from a year ago
when the rate was 5.57 percent.
The average rate on a 15-year fixed mortgage rose to 4.26
percent from 4.24 percent, and the rate on a one-year adjustable
mortgage declined to 6.94 percent from 6.96 percent.
The tax credit for first-time homebuyers, which was
extended in November to include some current owners, required
contracts be signed by April 30 and settled by June 30. Homebuilders remain cautious. Pulte Group Inc., the largest
U.S. homebuilder by revenue, reported a narrower loss in the
first quarter after it combined operations with rival Centex
Corp.
“We’ve gotten off to a solid start in a year that may not
be as robust as some had expected,” Richard J. Dugas, the
company’s chairman and chief executive officer, said on a
conference call with analysts on May 5. “While unemployment is
high at roughly 10 percent, that still means that 90 percent of
people are working, but not many of them are buying homes right
now.”

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Response by Wbottom
over 15 years ago
Posts: 2142
Member since: May 2010

http://www.cnbc.com/id/37575536

"housing's double dip"

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Response by keithw
over 15 years ago
Posts: 22
Member since: Jul 2008

i bought at georgica and can attest to 32 closed. i believe a few more closings scheduled in next couple of weeks and apparently 7 or 8 contract signed.

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Response by somewhereelse
over 15 years ago
Posts: 7435
Member since: Oct 2009

Like we didn't know this was coming.

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Response by printer
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1219
Member since: Jan 2008

no doubt KeithW is just part of the Hamas propaganda machine....

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Response by aboutready
over 15 years ago
Posts: 16354
Member since: Oct 2007

no, a union member able to buy new construction solely due to his cushy salary and benefits

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Response by printer
over 15 years ago
Posts: 1219
Member since: Jan 2008

So now SE lists 42 closed out of 58 available (I'm taking out the commercial unit), which is 72%, with another 3 in contract. What say you now, conspiracy theorists? They appear to have done a very good job finding the right pricing for this building.

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