Lincoln Towers

I vote for demolition via mass implosion. The ugliest buildings on the upper West Side. There is one building along Amsterdam Avenue that is 3 full blocks long from 66th Street to 69th Street. I mean, really, Staln had better architects. Yech! Those buildings are hideous. And the people who live there are octagenerians and nonagenerians. Yeesh, really. Do not pay more than $600 psf form this hideous, disgusting complex. Oh and by the way, the NYCHA Amsterdam Houses are right next door, home to the murderer who just killed his NYU girlfriend.

I saw a couple of apartments in there, studios and jr. one bedrooms. I think they are good for the value, and pretty big, and the location is very convenient, short walk to the 72nd St. subway. If you can live with the co-op rules of the building then I think it's a good buy.

thanks for the comments. Nycgal, are you aware of any rules in particular for this building or do you mean just co-op rules in general?

There is a land lease on the building

I recently purchased a pied e terre in the Lincoln Towers and couldn't be happier.

Our building has a 24 hour gym, library, kids playroom and a private 5 acre park. The board interview process was a breeze (15 minutes - very pleasant), the managing agent has been very accomodative of our move in/deliveries/renovations etc.

The area is close to Lincoln Center, Riverside Park, and easy to leave the city on Friday. It is also in one of the best public school districts on the West Side.

Our building does not allow dogs larger than 50 lbs - but that is not an issue for us.

The only downside is that you effectively cannot rent out the place - of course, this is not uncommon for co-ops in general. (Technically you can rent your place out, but the rules are strict enough that effectively you might not be able to find a renter who would qualify)

I have been looking at apartments in the buildings and am getting varied prices per sqft - anything between 850 - 1000 depending on the apt condition. What would you say is a good rate to buy at? thanks in advance.

I don't care how nice the building is - I would never, under any circumstance, buy in to a NYC coop/condo building that did not worship AND own the ground it sits on. A land lease is a ticking time bomb. Do you even know when the land lease has to be next negotiatiated?

It is not a land lease. I am looking at the offering plan. Each building owns its own plot of land.

Okay julia #5 - what's up?!?

On their web page they talk about it.

Where on their website does it say that it is a landlease building?

I meant co-ops in general, I at first thought that Lincoln Towers had slightly easier rules, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

pseudonym: julia, did you tell us this building is a land lease when it really isn't?
nyg: Uh oh. You're in for it now, julia.
julia: pseudonym and nyg, I'm feeling a lot of shame right now.
pseudonym: I'm hearing that you feel a lot of shame.
julia: And I feel that you hear my shame.
pseudonym: I'm feeling annoyance and frustration, but also tolerance.
julia: I feel validated by that.
pseudonym: Good! I'm glad we had this talk.
julia: Me too. [walks off whistling]

NYG: (In a stage whisper, hoping to be heard over the whistling) : But I'm feeling neither tolerant nor validated. So what about me?

Of wow...am I under oath. I did read it somewhere. I remember reading there is a second mortgage. sorry if I was wrong.

pseudonym: don't worry nyg, I'll try to help you as well. I'm often asked about my qualifications. Well, I may not have a lot of "CREDENTIALS" or "TRAINING", but I can tell you one thing: I've got a Ph.D. in emotional pain. Now let me show you how you can change your life.

[Pseudonym steps to a blackboard and grabs a piece of chalk]: nyg, this circle is you.

[pseudonym draws a circle]

nyg: My God, it's like you've known me all my life!

NYG:Oh My God I can finally whistle! How can I possibly thank you, Pseudonym????!!!!!

pseudonym: You know, nyg, my course can help you with every personality disorder in the "Feel Bad Rainbow." Let's look at the rainbow - what's in there?

[pseudonym reads list]

Depression, insomnia, motor-mouth, darting eyes, indecisiveness, decisiveness, bossiness, uncontrollable falling down, geriatric profanity disorder (or GPD), and chronic nagging...nagging...nagging...

nyg: That really opened my eyes. I can see that I'm just a passive-aggressive co-culprit. By nagging people when they do foolish things, I just enable their life script.

pseudonym: And that sends them into a shame spiral.

nyg: Exactly!

pseudonym: People, nyg *IS* the inner child I've been talking about! What's important here is that nyg has fully developed ego integrity with well-defined boundaries. People, I am excited. I can sense a change in the air tonight. You are all going to start living, really *LIVING*.

everybody on streeteasy: Yay! [chanting] Living! Living!

pseudonym: Be like nyg!

everybody on streeteasy: Be like nyg! Be like nyg!

pseudonym: Just the 'little black arrows' folks.

little black arrow folks: Be like nyg! Be like nyg!

pseudonym: Just the 'little red arrows' folks.

little red arrow folks: Be like nyg! Be like nyg!

pseudonym: Now, the seniors in the back.

seniors in the back: We like the DOB! We like the DOB!

(with apologies to Al Jean, my Harrison High School classmate...please don't sue me!)

Are you the unicorn guy, pseudonym? :-)

Axj40: Regarding your post #7.

There is no easy answer as to the price/sq foot - due to the the monolith nature of these buildings. You can have different layouts (even within alcove studios), views, terrace, condition of apartments etc. Having said that here are approximate prices:

Alcove studios: $360k - $420k
Jumbo studios: $450k - $575k
One bedrooms: Not sure - around $700k
Two bedrooms: With terrance - Around $1.1 mln - I think
Three bedrooms: Around $1.4 mln - $1.7 mln.

I thought it was a good value given the area. You have to put down 25-30% and no mortgages where the rate reset is less than seven or ten years (can't remember the exact number).

Hope this helps.

nyg:

I WAS the unicorn guy. Good call!!

Aahh-- I feel somehow the better for having been drawn in--however incidentally-to a corner of a mental landscape so rife with those mythical creatures. I can only hope Julia feels similarly fortunate.

As for land lease - it sounds unresolved OP. Make sure your lawyer does the diligence. Also make sure you are content with not having the flexibility to rent out the apartment if your life changes.

The apartments are relatively cheap for the area - and maintenance appears high - which usually implies land lease. . .look into why maintenance is relatively high.

The apartments are relatively cheap for the area - and maintenance appears high - which usually implies land lease. . .look into why maintenance is relatively high.

The reason maintenance is high is that included in it is electricity. Additionally, the complex offers a security person that sits in a booth at the entrance which makes maintenance higher.

If it's not a landlease (and I don't think it is) the coop owns lots of land aside from the buildings' footprints. Either way, grounds landscaping, maintenance and security add operating costs. (It's a "towers in a park" setup.)

Additionally, it might have an unusually large underlying mortgage . . . tax-deductibility percentage would provide a clue as to that. It's an ex-Mitchell Lama rental, so things were probably tweaked in a different manner from the usual rental-to-coop eviction/noneviction conversion plan . . . lower unit purchase prices (for initial unit owners) but bigger underlying mortgage. Just my guess.

And btw, its parking spaces are condo or coop units unto themselves (purchase restricted to Lincoln Towers apartment owners), which adds appeal to some apartment buyers. I think the monthly maintenance on those is under $100. With more and more nearby open-air parking facilities being developed into buildings, those spots are probably good investments.

I know it is not a land lease because the offering plan specifically discusses each building owning the land where its footprint resides. While each building is managed and run by its own corporation, having a second mortgage on the building does not make it a land lease. It only makes the 2nd mortgage holder have a second lien on the corporation's assets. A land lease would imply that the building does not own the land on which it was built in the first place.

Maintenance is a higher because of shared space with the other buidlings and the 5 acre private park - as #28 correctly pointed out and 30+ private security force.

The prices are slightly lower because of the 30$ downpayment required and because the complex is a post-war co-op which certain folks (like #2) don't like the look of.