Advice on negotiating lease renewal w/ archstone

what is your increase? from what to what? my understanding is they can raise whatever they want if you are not stabilized (which sucks, i know).)

No, no limits.

Archstone is a weird one, they have a computer program that does the calculations based on the market. They literally change prices based on someone viewing an apartment and not renting it, days on market, etc. Its been described to me like an airline demand model. They raise it based on what they think they can get, assuming that if you don't take it, they can get even more.

That being said, I figure there has to be some human override. Call and be very nice.

It's an 18% rise... is that high? Seems high to us considering the economy, especially. We will try to negotiate but when we tell friends who live in similar apts (by size, amenities) what we pay already, they look at us like we're crazy. Is there a way to find out how many units this building has vacant? Or the median or average rents in our bldg? I just want to arm myself w/ as much data as I can before I walk in to negotiate. Will also be armed with prices of similar units in neighboring buildings... we are surrounded by similar high-rises. Thanks all for the input!

were you paying a "net effective" rent?

i have lived in an archstone building in manhattan for a number of years. all archstone buildings are online and you can see real-time vacancies and prices. www. archstoneapartments dot com. if you just got your initial offer, it means that your lease isn't up for several months, so the thing to do is just wait and not respond. they will contact you again closer to the expiration of your lease (or you can contact them in a month or so), at which point you can look up real-time prices and tell them of prices in neighboring buildings and ask them for a better offer. we have done that the last two years and each time have gotten a much better rate than was initially offered to us. (the first year was a decrease of several hundred and last year was something like a 3% increase) good luck.

i was in the same boat: got a lease renewal with a 19% increase over last
year's net effective rent (which was relatively low). i was nevertheless
pissed that in this economy they would do that. i found a new apt in a
brand new building, much bigger and nicer that what i had (with W/D, hard-
wood floors) and i only pay 10% more than what my lease renewal came in at.
so i said screw you and left and i am much happier for it. the thing is,
i was sort of bluffing when i told them i would move but then i realized
it was actually worth it! there are a lot of deals out there, don't be
stuck with a bad landlord just because you are afraid to pull the trigger.

^^This has to include the cost of moving in any sort of calculation. And the hassle factor. But this is the whole gimmick of "free months" - even with NO nominal rent increase, you have a 9.1% rent increase when the free month is up (if you had one free month per year.) Its a risk you take when renting, always.

Which is why, for better or worse, I have only ever had two year leases, and have been lucky enough to sign them when the rental market was in the shitter.

> It's an 18% rise... is that high?

That does sound pretty high. I'm surprised their system allows that.

"That does sound pretty high. I'm surprised their system allows that."

Huh? What "system" market rate is market rate. Even in rent-stablized buildings like my (newly built one), the ACTUAL rent is half (HALF!!!) the legally allowable rent, so at any lease renewal my LL COULD double my rent. Which I find absurd - why give somone a tax credit for creating "affordable" housing at $7000 PM for East Harlem?

I digress.
Yes in a market rate unit, sky is the limit.

I too have had a lot of success pushing back on archstone (ie about a 10% reduction in rent vis a vis their intial offer). Of course this was last summer when vacancies were quite high across Manhattan. Based upon my experience, the initial renewal offer at archstone should be treated as an opening salvo in a negotiation - and nothing more.

I would absolutely advise you to look at the other comparable buildings in your area and make sure archstone knows you are doing so. Competitive offers (of course adjusted for the hassel of moving) are the best way for you to demonstrate to archstone what your options are. If you find one thats reasonable - tell Archstone you are about to sign the other lease - but want to give Archstone one last chance for a better offer. A little bluffing can go a long way here - even more so if you are serious. Worst case scenario is that you just take the original offer that Archstone has given you (as they have to leave it open for a certain amount of time).

Just like you have the hasel of moving, archstone has the incremental costs of (i) marketing the apartment, (ii) turnover time (ie when the apartment is vacant), (iii) general turnover maintance (repainting etc), (iv) credit risk on the new tennant (assuming that you have been paying bills on time), and (v) incentives needed to get a new tennant in the door (ie free month rent).

Also - it can't hurt to check archstones listings. If your building has a lot of apartments on the market that are comparable to yours - be especially agressive as archstone will (or should) be quite worried about the time it will take to resign the lease.

My guess though is that with an 18% raise, they are certain they are going to fill your apartment quickly. Probably best to focus on your options and proceed accordingly.

""That does sound pretty high. I'm surprised their system allows that."

Huh? What "system" market rate is market rate. Even in rent-stablized buildings like my (newly built one), the ACTUAL rent is half (HALF!!!) the legally allowable rent, so at any lease renewal my LL COULD double my rent. Which I find absurd - why give somone a tax credit for creating "affordable" housing at $7000 PM for East Harlem?

I digress.
Yes in a market rate unit, sky is the limit."

Jason, you missed the point. I was talking about their computerized system of determining asking, not the allowable.

Hello everybody, I'm Dan, the director of pricing for Archstone's communities in our East Region. I was reading this thread and thought I might be able to explain a little more about how our pricing system works. Much like hotels, we use a mathematical model that establishes an appropriate market rent. It takes a number of things into consideration including similar communities, our own availability and recent leasing results. New pricing can change daily, and we typically offer prospective residents a 24-hour guarantee on a price quote so they can have some time to compare. When it comes to renewals, we have to commit to a price offer long before the resident has to decide. The price we offer, when calculated and sent, is based on the residents' expiring rent and what we would charge if that apartment became available at that time. As time passes, the rents can go up (in which case we still honor our original offer), or they could go down. It's also important to note that the volatile economic conditions of the past couple of years has resulted in more dramatic price swings than we normally experience. However, we are always willing to discuss any concern and will make adjustments if market conditions are such that an adjustment is the fair thing to do. We do, of course, expect our residents who choose to give notice to meet the appropriate advance notice requirements, so there is a limit to how long a resident can wait to discuss an offer.

Note to self: never rent from Archstone.

I just took down that note as well. Thanks Archstone for the warning!

The sky is not the limit. The law prohibits "unconscionable rent increases," but it may be difficult to prove and not worth the cost.

Crappy landlord = move. Let them have yet one more vacancy; they have among the highest vacancies in the city, b/c their prices are way over the top.

dskodol-
Just curious... does the 'mathematical model' ever produce a lower rent? If so, would you actually ask a current renter to renew at a lower rate, or would you just keep it the same?

The simple answer is yes—the model can, and does, come up with lower rents, and we do offer and renew at lower rents when that’s the fair answer.

"The sky is not the limit. The law prohibits "unconscionable rent increases," but it may be difficult to prove and not worth the cost."

That is true in New Jersey for sure, but I can't find the word "unconscionable" on the manhattan housing website. Here is what I DID find:

"The City does not regulate rent increases for Market Rate apartments as they are privately owned. Rental rates and lease terms are negotiated between the owner and tenant. "

Period.

The only reference I can find to "unconscionable" rent increases has to do with stabilized units, NOT market rate ones.

Now, I am not a lawyer, so there is a great chance you are right. However, I HAVE asked lawyers about this before, when I lived in a market rate unit, and THESE NYC real estate lawyers said - direct quote - "Sky is the limit for market rate units." As in when my then LL wanted a 30% raise.

So if you get post the link, that would be great.

There is no obligation for the landlord to even provide you with a renewal lease. Certainly no limit on the monthly rent. Market forces, both for the specific building and the greater market prevail 99% of the time. But that doesn't mean you'll find market forces to your favor.Good luck, and do your homework.

Dan, if the rent goes down between the time of the renewal offer and the expiration of the lease, will Archstone come down on the renewal offer? You mentioned that it stays the same if the rent goes up. However, if the current market rate goes down prior to the signing of a new lease, will Archstone negotiate a lower rate with the tenant if they inquire? Or is there a strict, non-negotiation stance?

We have lived for several years in an Archstone property. Every year we receive a renewal "offer" but wait to renew until the last moment in order to more accurately gauge the fairness of the offer. The management in our building has always been more than fair in negotiating downward when we present comparable listings that reflect a lower price than we were offered. One of our neighbors who had been in the building for a very long time even confirmed they had once been offered a LOWER rate to renew (granted, that was shortly after 9/11), but still, that demonstrates that Archstone is willing to negotiate with tenants already in place.

All that being said, in addition, we are very satisfied overall with our living experience in our well-maintained, well-managed building. No plans to move anytime soon!

This is in response to survivor's question:

With market conditions and pricing changing daily, we always encourage our residents to discuss their renewal offers with management at the community. If conditions warrant it, we will make a downward adjustment to the original renewal offer. In all cases, we will still expect that residents will meet the notice-to-vacate requirements as stated in their lease should they choose not to renew.

Long time Archstone renter here, although I am a rather atypical renter. Some things that I have noted from renting with them on both the east and west coast: Archstone, in my experience, does NOT offer a lower renewal rent when the market is down. When I was in CA, at renewal time Archstone requested about a 15 percent increase, although there were vacancies of identical apartments listed online for about 400 dollars less per month than my rent at the time. When confronted with this, the on site staff said that they were unable to negotiate. The issue was escalated to the regional manager, who said the the same thing, that EVEN SHE could not override the computer's renewal calculation! Obviously not true, but absurd that that would be their negotiation tactic. Through several renewals, Archstone's argument has been this, though not stated in this fashion: We know that we are asking you to bend over and take it, but you know what? You probably don't want to incur the expense and go through the hassle of moving, so you'll probably just take it. A lot of tenants do. So why have I rented with Archstone so much? Like I said, my situation is a little unique. I have to relocate frequently for work. I am something of a nomad. I have minimal possessions, and when I say minimal, I mean beyond what you would probably imagine as minimal. So moving for me is no big deal, and there are a lot of Archstones, so I am able to transfer around as needed. Going back to what happened to me in CA, I ended up transferring to the lower rent apartment that was listed online in the same complex. Archstone ended up having to paint and re-carpet my old apartment and then only rented it at the lower market rent to someone else. So they cut off their nose to spite their face on that one. And no, they did not try to charge me any clean up or damage fees or anything, although I was braced for that fight as I had kept up the apartment, the painting and carpet really needed to be done before I took the apartment, but had not. Long story short, Archstone is kind of like a cellular carrier when it comes to renewals. They offer great deals to new customers but then offer nothing to retain customers. Renter beware.

oh wow this is quite scary. I am currently a renter in the north building and my lease is ending first week of september. I am a student so if they add even 20 dollars to my rent i'm outta here..I already pay 2287 for my small studio and we don't have doormen (just concierge) , gym is 75 dollars versus 25-35 in cityspire and the nicole for example. I hope i don't get run over by them in the offices if they try to increase my rent because this is an apartment thats on the far west of midtown and apartments that are actually in midtown west WITH pool, doorman, and gym for 35 dollars everything are actually 2200! so if archstone makes me increase i'll pack my thigns and move to 58th street! closer to everything evn!

Thanks for letting me know abt this "computer renewal calculation".
being an architect as well business major with mba in bus.mgmnt..... that stuff is a bunch of bullcrap :D

Writing from San Diego, and in the same situation. Just received a letter stating that they will be raising the rent $300 or 16.5%. I have been an exemplary tenant, and never paid a bill late.

Good ridence to companies who do not understand the value of customer appreciation and service. It may take time, but you will always and inevitably fail.

Please do your best to make Archstone's lack of customer care as public as possible.