30s suburbanite buying a NYC studio for dating?

@Boss I think you might have a learning disability. Are you autistic?

RE Buffet. The article was published Oct 16, so presumably the price in his head was a recent prior range. Unfortunately, the range on Oct 15 was pretty wild -- here are the closes for S&P:

Oct 15, 2008 907.84
Oct 14, 2008 998.01

So somewhere, between 7.4% and 18.1%. After you add in dividends, it's 5-10% annually. I'm not in the man's brain, but I would imagine that 5-10% annual returns over the long run were in his mind when he made the proclamation. I.e., we're on track with his long-term expectation.

captive - you have stumbled into a hive of negativism. If you can afford it, and it will make you happy, buy the damn studio. Only you know if you have NYC in your bones to the point where it will bring you immense joy to have a place here. You don't have kids or a wife, the 2 biggest money drains out there - easy for so many to crap on your idea without spending a day in your shows.

The opinions on this board in general are about 80% bearish. Mostly disgruntled types who have not owned, and still bitter, coming here to feel better about themselves. You don't need anyone's approval - get the studio and enjoy the bagels, interesting people, pizza, hours of energizing walks, etc. I hope I can always own a NYC apartment...

shows = shoes above...

"I was refuting your delusional notion that everyone loses money in a 2nd home purchase."

The delusion is yours... I didn't say that.

"Other way around? How is paying $700/mo in maint twice as expensive as renting? (Yes, while tying up $250k in a 0% interest rate environment) "

Again, pretending the $700 maintenance is the only cost is the insane part. Thats not even... paying for the apartment!

You're leaving out the biggest cost of all of it.

Now that is what I call delusional.

> The opinions on this board in general are about 80% bearish

After being 95% bullish.

What changed? Oh yeah... the market tanked, and those who thought it was a great investment were burned.

Now more people think RE is not a good investment... surprise, surprise.

Glad you could finally join us.

@Boss I think you might have a learning disability. Are you autistic?

Um, no. I do have a Ph.D. from MIT, though. You?

So the entire debate comes down to buying a studio and renting a woman vs. buying a woman and renting a studio? A wise Brit said that " if it rolls, flies, floats or fornicates" he favored renting depreciating assets, meaning that buying a studio and randomly hooking up is likely a smarter financial move. Now that we've established the roles we each play, we are just quibbling about price.

@somewhere I have $250k sitting in cash, doing nothing, earning 0%. It "costs" me nothing to move that money into shares of an apt building. Bottom line, I write a check for $700/mo, and get to live in an NYC studio anytime I want. Compare this to writing a rental check for $1300/mo.

just buy the studio and be done with it. i own a coop in the village, which i bought late last year, and i am currently in the market for a beach house in east hampton. do i think these will be good investments relative to other uses of the $$? god no. the beach house is not even an investment at all. i can afford it, and i'm sick of staying with my fiancee's parents in east hampton, she wants to go every weekend, i don't feel like renting, etc.

it very obviously makes no financial sense for you to buy a studio. but you want to buy it. so buy it.

captive,

it does "cost" you something. it costs you closing costs. it costs you renovation costs. it costs you upkeep of the apartment. and it costs you the risk that your apartment will decline in value. these are not costs?

it also costs you the risk that taxes and maintenance will increase (although to call that a risk is somewhat generous to your case. those sound like certainties to me).

@Boss In that case, use those brilliant research skills to learn the difference b/w dating and prostitution.

> @Boss I think you might have a learning disability. Are you autistic?

oh jeez, what's with this guy, really?

@happy

Closing costs: Friend does the closing for free, and there is no mortgage/points/etc

Renovation costs are worth it. Updated apt vs. ratty old studio. In fact, this is a big strike against the $1300 benchmark we're using. If that's for a ratty, paint-caked studio, it's not an even comparison. As I stated before, to even be in the game with a weekend studio, it has to be immaculate.

Taxes/maint go up, just as landlord's rents go up.
Nothing exists in a vacuum.

"@somewhere I have $250k sitting in cash, doing nothing, earning 0%. It "costs" me nothing to move that money into shares of an apt building."

uh, sure it does.

you have a very poor grasp of finance.

you're moving dollars into a much riskier asset. If you aren't getting a return, the cost is the interest you would be getting it you put your money into a similarly risky asset.

"Bottom line, I write a check for $700/mo, and get to live in an NYC studio anytime I want. Compare this to writing a rental check for $1300/mo."

This is incredibly lousy logic.

How about this, you give me your $250k and I'll hold it for you. Doesn't "cost" you anything, right?
You may or may not get it back.

somewhere else, i have an even better analogy.

give me 250k. i will have use of the money; you will get back whatever portion of that money corresponds with the rate of return of real estate in new york over the time you live in the apartment. costs you nothing since you are getting no return on it now. then give me 700 a month. then give 20,000 (renovation cost). then give me 36000 (the broker fee when you sell the apartment).

in exchange, i will find you a renovated studio, and i will rent it, and you can live in it for free.

@somewhere

I am curious if you'd have used the same logic 5, 10, or 15 years ago?
Risk actually means volatility in either direction, and you'd have been dispensing terrible advice.

Yes, at the time of M posting, we just happen to be at the tail end of a bull market.
The question is, are you saying buying a studio (vs renting) is a bad idea, ALWAYS?
Or are you saying buying a studio is a bad idea b/c you assume depreciation of prices?
There is a huge difference in logic b/w the two.

m = my

I don't know where you can find a nice studio for 1300 (one that wouldn't make a woman think "ew, frat-boy"). I guess that's why you want to date a girl in her 20's - much much easier to impress than a woman in her late 30's. BTW, your view of women seems rather negative. But good luck with all of that.

"I am curious if you'd have used the same logic 5, 10, or 15 years ago? "

The logic of giving away interest free risky (in not risk free) loans has a cost. Yes! Absolutely!
Would you have used the same bad logic as now 5,10,15 years ago? In the 70s it would have cost you a TON.

"Risk actually means volatility in either direction, and you'd have been dispensing terrible advice."

I know what risk is, and factor it in.... you somehow ignore it.
Thats terrible advice now, 20 years ago, and 20 years from now.

> The question is, are you saying buying a studio (vs renting) is a bad idea, ALWAYS?
no

> Or are you saying buying a studio is a bad idea b/c you assume depreciation of prices?
no there either

> There is a huge difference in logic b/w the two.

so you're big on logic now?

If you think those are the only reasons not to buy, its back to finance 101 for you.

@happy Yes, I get it. You're just taking a spec position on the direction of the market. But, if the market goes up 500%, you've made a retarded trade. So, see my above question. However, the market may go down, stay flat, or go up. You don't know the answer to that, though you certainly may have an opinion on that matter. But yes, buying a studio would obviously be taking a position that I expect prices to stay flat (or that I got a killer deal, with downside risk priced in). If prices drop, renting is better. That is not rocket science.

@kstiles If $1300 only gets a crappy studio, that's actually a reason to favor buying, if a $250k studio is in better shape.

Negative vs. realistic & experienced. You yourself said you're too lazy to date someone who isn't nearby. Not me. And, actually, older women are easier to impress. They have fewer choices. Perhaps, try your schoolyard shaming tactics on a younger man.

@somewhere Again, you only cite bear markets like the 70s. Your logic is entirely predicated on calling market direction. If the market stays flat or goes up, your rental advice is shit. You are giving market timing advice, not financial advice. That's perfectly fine, (in fact, I agree) but you don't seem to be able to separate the two. I just need to see what sort of equity haircut/break-even I am willing to take in exchange for 50% monthly carrying cost. I've stated that several times now.

happyrenter
'give me 250k. i will have use of the money; you will get back whatever portion of that money corresponds with the rate of return of real estate in new york over the time you live in the apartment. costs you nothing since you are getting no return on it now. then give me 700 a month. then give 20,000 (renovation cost). then give me 36000 (the broker fee when you sell the apartment).'

in exchange, i will find you a renovated studio, and i will rent it, and you can live in it for free.

awesome- so you are backstopping a greater than 100% appreciation for this apartment? over what time frame? what kind of counterparty credit are you, and which renovated studio will I be moving into?

> I don't know where you can find a nice studio for 1300 (one that wouldn't make a woman think "ew, frat-boy").

@kstiles Would you rather date a man who lives in a designer appointed 5BR center hall Colonial in Cherry Hill, NJ, or a guy who lives in a dingy frat-boy studio apt 3 blocks away? (Boys, take notes)

@printer. Exactly. Thank you. @Happy is simply saying "prices will go down". His "analogy" is entirely unnecessary, and hardly the no-brainer he paints it out to be. If he put forth that analogy in years past, he'd have gotten destroyed. Market timing assumptions vs. objective comparison of options

>Would you rather date a man who lives in a designer appointed 5BR center hall Colonial in Cherry Hill, NJ,
>or a guy who lives in a dingy frat-boy studio apt 3 blocks away?

There's also a third choice, which is to run screaming from both.

@somewhere

> Again, you only cite bear markets like the 70s.

uh, no i didn't.

You having trouble with the reading? Didn't you just slag someone else on that?

> Your logic is entirely predicated on calling market direction.

No, its not.... at all But, if you didn't read/understand my posts, your mistake is understandable.

> If the market stays flat or goes up, your rental advice is shit.

Uh, nope.

Sounds like you really need that Finance 101 class.

> You are giving market timing advice, not financial advice.

Uh, nope. Try again.

> That's perfectly fine, (in fact, I agree) but you don't seem to be able to separate the two.

No, thats you.

I never mentioned market timing, that was you. Seems you have the problem separating.

> I just need to see what sort of equity haircut/break-even I am willing to take in exchange for 50% monthly
> carrying cost. I've stated that several times now.

And you've miscalculated it several times. Thinking break-even is staying flat on a non risk-free investment is just one of your basic mistakes.

> I don't know where you can find a nice studio for 1300 (one that wouldn't make a woman think "ew, frat-boy").

same place you can buy one for $250k.

@captive - " Would you rather date a man who lives in a designer appointed 5BR center hall Colonial in Cherry Hill, NJ, or a guy who lives in a dingy frat-boy studio apt 3 blocks away? (Boys, take notes)"

I would date neither. But being that I am neither desperate nor easily impressed I don't fit into your theory. My current bf is 28 and lives in NJ - we hang at my place as I don't go to NJ. I'm not "lazy", I am just particular and the older I get the less I am willing to compromise. But that's just me.

@somewhere. My post should have been directed to @happy. Got your two names mixed up.

> what kind of counterparty credit are you, and

Why does that matter? OP is apparently imprervious to risk, and expects the risk free rate.

> Thinking break-even is staying flat on a non risk-free investment is just one of your basic mistakes.

Well, hey, if I can get 10% a year appreciation, that's just icing.
Get it? It goes both ways.

I have not posted in ages, but my head just exploded reading this. First, this is either a broker trying to pump the market, a physiology experiment, or someother sort of joke, but to play along, you keep saying $700 a month, $700 a month, but:

1) Do you plan on cleaning the bathrooms yourself? If not, add $40/wk = $160mo
2) Do you plan on having cable, internet, etc? If yes, add $100mo
3) Do you plan on heat, a/c, electric, etc? If yes, add $100mo
4) Do you plan on tipping the staff every year? If yes, add $300/yr = $25/mo

Right there is $385/mo, or $4,620/yr or $23,100 over 5 years in costs that no buyer will ever pay you back for. And, if you stay in a hotel those are all included in the room rate.

> Well, hey, if I can get 10% a year appreciation, that's just icing.
> Get it? It goes both ways

Yes, and you seem to miss the other way.

Taking 0% return on an asset risky enough to require a substantial return is a significant cost.

You named checked volatility earlier, yet ignored the implication. It can go up, it can go down. but if you aren't paid for that risk, thats a substantial cost.

Otherwise, let me have your $250k and I'll put it in the stock market. I'll give you your money back in 5 years. If the market tanks, you eat it.

"Right there is $385/mo, or $4,620/yr or $23,100 over 5 years in costs that no buyer will ever pay you back for. And, if you stay in a hotel those are all included in the room rate."

Take the $250k, put it in munis, and you have $800 a month for hotel rooms.

@kstiles Actually, it sounds like you'd date the guy in NJ. Duh. Totally contradicts what you said about not dating geog. undesirable men (which I read as, non-NYC) Well, good for you. Tell us about why you're dating someone 15 years younger. This is normally 1 in 100.

@Apt_boy. Good points.
1) Yes
2) No
3) Heat is often included with a co-op. Was figuring $50/mo. electric.
4) Not if I'm there 4x a month. I would pro-rate. $8/mo.

> Take the $250k, put it in munis, and you have $800 a month for hotel rooms.

No, I plan on flipping the co-op for $400k in a few years. ;-)

Exactly which $100/night after taxes hotel do you suggest he stay in?

Why is this taking 139 posts to resolve? It's like arguing over the color variation of a red stop light and what that actually means. We have true NYC real estate connoisseurs here and the chorus is getting louder. No To Shag Pad, Yes To Hotel Room. Both for savings and you actually getting laid.

@somewhere What is "checked volatility"? Never heard this term.

250k for the stock market in exchange for a $700/mo studio... There is no need for your strained analogies, as they add no clarity to a gambit already crystal clear. How's this one? I "buy a studio apt" for $250k, and if it goes down in value, I eat it. We've already discussed equity deflation. It's a calculated risk for $700/mo "rent". I get it. Time to move on.

I'm confused too, kstiles99. You said this:

"As a single woman in her early 40's I can attest that I won't date a man who is not geographically desirable."

And then you said this:

"My current bf is 28 and lives in NJ - we hang at my place as I don't go to NJ."

Now I'm not in the dating scene, and at first I thought I understood the idea of being "geographically desirable", but now I just don't get it. If someone who lives in NJ is geographically desirable, what isn't?

FYI, I'm not asking to be judgemental of you or NJ or anything else. I'm just curious what "geographically desirable" means for you.

Ok, "dating" is not the accurrate term. Let's just say I have someone who does housecalls, its convenient for me. I do date mainly men in Manhattan (and will make an exception for brooklyn and possibly NJ if they have a car). I am trying to convince Mr. 28 that he would be much more successful with the womens if he moved into the city. I've never dated anyone that lived in Westchester or beyond. You ask why I'm seeing someone 15 yrs younger...don't you know?? Same reason you seek out women 15 yrs younger.

> Exactly which $100/night after taxes hotel do you suggest he stay in?

You forgot to add in the $700 maintenance.

@Tallisman,
A hotel room offers nil utility to me. A big part of this is to be perceived as part of NYC. (Where do you live? Midtown) This is the lynchpin of dating in NYC. Period. A hotel doesn't offer that. I'd rather just drive home. Understand, I have dated NYC women for years, but as an outsider. I'm tired of that. I need to zip code, if you will. Hotel room is not even on the table.

> There is no need for your strained analogies, as they add no clarity to a gambit already crystal clear.

Yes, agreed... it was pretty crystal clear that your plan made little sense.... but you didn't get it so we went for other examples.

> How's this one? I "buy a studio apt" for $250k, and if it goes down in value, I eat it. We've already discussed
> equity deflation. It's a calculated risk for $700/mo "rent". I get it. Time to move on.

As long as you are *finally* getting that your true cost is in the thousands.

> a calculated risk for $700/mo "rent".

Btw, it is NOT, by definition, a calculated risk... if you haven't calculated in the risk!

Less willing to compromise right into a cat filled studio.

Captive914, either achieve more and afford a nice pad in Westchester and a true 2bdrm in NYC, or stfu. Cause 2sets of twins will never ever f'king fit into a studio.

Oh, but I have. Either it goes down, stays flat, or goes up. I'll average the 3 and "expect" 0% gain/loss. (But, not really, as I assume prices will head down) Point remains, you ONLY see it as going down. That's false, in theory.

"Exactly which $100/night after taxes hotel do you suggest he stay in?"

Printer, I think you get $800 from the munis, $700 from the maintenance, $250 for expenses (cleaning, electric, tipping, etc.), and $300 from transaction & renovation costs. That's $2000 a month, or $250 a night.

Not suggesting it for this guy, but just saying that it could be a fine alternative.

@Inonada- can see your confusion. NJ is convenience, he comes to my place, I don't go to his. He's not a serious contender anyways so there is more flexibility with me. When I'm dating I do my searches mainly in Manhattan.

@w67th A nice pad in suburbia is meaningless. Hell, it might as well be Versailles, but you're not in the game, either way. In reality, I'm better off in a dingy studio in midtown. But yes, having a better pad in NYC is obvious, just not something I'm willing to squander my time chasing. A studio is "good enough", and yes, some percentage of women will have nothing to do with that setup.

You had me cracking up w/ the twins, w67th. Welcome to the conversation.

Got it kstiles99.

No way I invest in munis for some yield. Sucker's bet Don't overlook that fact that munis can take a big hit in face value. Ratings downgrades, default risk, interest rate risk, etc. They have nothing but fiscal problems right now.

> Oh, but I have.

Actually, no you haven't. As evidenced by earlier posts and this right here:

> Either it goes down, stays flat, or goes up. I'll average the 3 and "expect" 0% gain/loss.

Which, if you calculated the risk correctly, would be a loss.
But you didn't. You think being at the same level in a few years is "break-even". Except its not.
As I said, you haven't calculated the risk.

Finance 101.

> (But, not really, as I assume prices will head down)

then its even worse, and even more of a calculation mistake you are making

> Point remains, you ONLY see it as going down.

You keep repeating yourself, but you are wrong. Not only did I not say it, I don't think it.

You simply just keep making mistakes in RISK CALCULATION.

As I said, you haven't calculated risk.

> That's false, in theory.

I'm sure lots of other things I didn't say that you made up are false in theory too.

Good thing I didn't say it.

But bad thing that you keep mispricing risk.

"Printer, I think you get $800 from the munis, $700 from the maintenance, $250 for expenses (cleaning, electric, tipping, etc.), and $300 from transaction & renovation costs. That's $2000 a month, or $250 a night."

there you go.

@somewhere With cash rates at 0%, I believe I have taken into account the opportunity cost of tying up $250k without regards to market direction. If that's what you're trying to say. So, yes, I view getting back $250k as break-even, b/c that's exactly what I'll have in 10 years. Unless you have a crystal ball and know where interest rates are headed.

Also, we are in a deflationary environment, if you're going to play the inflation argument.

Captive.

1) Your original post resembled half online singles ad and half genuine question.

2) You then chest thumped to all the ladies out there, "More interesting than the average guy, by a longshot". Which is more like a silverback gorilla marking territory and begs the question, really, really, you can't find ladies in Westchester to date, with all that you've got going on. (The gym, physique, non profit work, $750K in the bank, well read, fully paid condo.) I've been to Westchester, I would have no issue hooking up with ladies. (Try getting laid in San Francisco as a straight guy if you want a real challenge).

3) A $250K shag pad won't get you shagged with the caliber of women you desire. My mom used to say, your eyes are bigger than your mouth when I had too much food on my plate. Do we have Big Eyes syndrome here?

4) So, you'll have settle for a less desirable mating partner with a 400 square foot studio, which puts you right back into the caliber of the Westchester dating scene per your comments.

5) I would put hotel room "right back on the table" otherwise, find some matches so you won't have anyone else to blame when the money starts burning.

6) I live in Columbus Cirle area.

"I have dated NYC women for years, but as an outsider. I'm tired of that. I need to zip code, if you will."

I think you're addressing the wrong part of the dilemma here. 35 minutes outside the city is no farther than many parts of Brooklyn or Queens. The problem isn't your lack of a zip code, it's your dates' lack of depth. If they're willing to exclude or include someone based on a zip code, they aren't exactly the brightest bulbs in the chandelier. Invest a little more in finding better people, and save yourself the 250k.

This thread sounds right out of 1960...after watching Mad Men last night you guys would fit right in...

@STF62 You're trying to use logic. However, it's not commute time (spoken like a true logical male) It's what it represents. I would posit you're better off being 1 hour away by subway than 15 mins. by car.

>The problem isn't your lack of a zip code, it's your dates' lack of depth.

I agree, but I don't get the sense here that a lack of depth turns off this particular captive.

"@somewhere With cash rates at 0%, I believe I have taken into account the opportunity cost of tying up $250k without regards to market direction."

again, without calculating the risk. That you keep noting cash rates shows how you don't understand this.

So the best alternative you guys can come up is that this guy spend $200/night (pre-taxes) on a hotel room? You have any idea what kind of crappy hotel you get for that in the city? A shoebox in a mediocre hilton or sheraton - and that's the best case. And then you have to be out by 12pm, and shlep your bags each week, and have to check in/out each time? And no fridge, so you're hitting the mini-bar. Its not even a comparison - not to mention that if I were a girl and hooked up w/a this guy in his hotel I'd automatically assume he was married.

A condo studio would make sense - easily rentable if he no longer wants it, and a nice thing to continue using as a pied a terre if he wants to keep it. If he ends up married/partnered to someone w/o kids, having a place in the city would be awesome and used a lot. Is there downside- of course, but certainly a manageable amount.

And let's not forget that the quality of said hotel will keep going down b/c the interest on the muni which provides about 1/2 the income for this is fixed.

@Tallisman I beg to differ. Dating avenues in suburbia are literally non-existent. You could be Brad Pitt AND Donald Trump, but if you're fishing in an ocean with 3 fish, doesn't matter how good the bait is. Think of it like this: Would you rather have a castle in the middle of the Sahara desert, or a piker studio in midtown? You're better off in NYC b/c you have to be inside the stadium to take a swing at the ball. Even if it's a juiced up Roger Clemens on the mound, and you've got a wiffle ball bat, it still gives better odds than fighting with your petulant camel in the Sahara.

But lets not forget how lousy the competition is. Agreed, suburban women not so hot, but have you seen suburban GUYS?

At least a suburban chick can be hot while being dumb and cheesy. But a dumb and cheesy guy.... ouch.

captive914 Why don't you just pay for your women like the arab princes in the Sahara. The kind of women who would probably like you would want to get paid for their services.

@printer. Yes, a hotel is not even a consideration. It is as relevant as telling me to buy a new camera every weekend. Apples and oranges. But an easy mistake on the surface.

Right now, a condo with a weeknight tenant is the best bet (aside from renting, of course) Even $500/mo under the table would add about $100k in buying power.

@somewhere Correct, I have no idea WTF you're referring to anymore.

> 3) A $250K shag pad won't get you shagged with the caliber of women you desire

True dat. Someone slumming it in a $250k condo can't really complain about suburban trash.

weeknight tenant sounds like a very bad idea - first of all, you'd have to use the same bed - that's just gross to me. And then you have to worry about him being messy, ruining things.

@julia Err, no. I'd simply like to be where lots of single people my age already are. What part of that is too complex for you (or anyone else) to understand? How your delusional mind can convert "wanting to live and date in NYC" to "hookers" is utterly mindblowing. I had no idea that mental patients had access to the internet.

> orrect, I have no idea WTF you're referring to anymore.

You didn't in the beginning, either.

Again, finance 101. Would really help you out a lot.

According to Captive and a couple other men on this board:
1. women in suburbs are "loser types"
2. women that look only in certain area codes aren't the "brightest bulbs in the chandelier"
and 3. If a woman won't compromise she's going to end up a spinster in a 'cat filled studio".

Wow, women really lose no matter what they do.!!!

btw, what about just flipping this? Offering the $1k or whatever to someone with an extra bedroom or such to only use it a couple nights a week.

@somewhere

> But lets not forget how lousy the competition is. Agreed, suburban women not so hot, but have you seen suburban GUYS?

Again, the competition is entirely moot. Again, think of the Sahara analogy. Suburbia could be teeming with supermodels, but you'd never actually cross paths with them. (And it's not, they all move to NYC) Anyone in NYC takes for granted the physical logistics of social venues. Without bars or the internet, you can literally go weeks without actually SEEING an unmarried person, let alone talking to one.

Also factor in a maid to come once/twice a week to clean/change sheets.

> Wow, women really lose no matter what they do.!!!

I think the women in the suburbs are actually better than the men. I think they're more likely to be there because of family, friends... rather than guys who are more career-focused (and likely have lousy careers in the burbs).

@somewhere I already addressed this. I'd rather have my own place. Only thing worse than a shitty studio is renting a bedroom from some old lady. How the F would that work? Com'on. Are you even thinking?

>Only thing worse than a shitty studio is renting a bedroom from some old lady.

Wow, you really do hate women.

Sometimes people ask the wrong questions, but need the right answers. The answer for you, as I've said, is that it's much easier for you to get married and have a gaggle of children and drive them to Little League. Engage in fisticuffs with another father while you're there -- you'll feel much better. In a decade buy yourself a Corvette to feel young again. Your second midlife crisis in ten years.

> You didn't in the beginning, either. Again, finance 101. Would really help you out a lot.

Actually, I did. You just didn't have a point that wasn't simply academic. I already said that I don't view moving money from cash to real estate is a risk I need to get paid for, b/c the risk (aka: vol) is symmetric. I could just as well walk away selling the place for $500k in a few years? Get it? The numbers that are real here monthly outlay ($1300 vs $700) and oppty cost (0% cash). If you meant something else, then you could use a literacy 101 course.

@Alan, Sorry, but your suggestion borders on mental retardation. Maybe I'll just get a job in the city, sell my place, and move into the city permanently. Idiot.

@Boss - that is the sense I am getting too!

@Boss Hardly. I do more volunteer work with women than you do. You must be autistic if you don't understand the nuances of renting a spare bedroom in someone's apt vs. owning your own place. Do you actually, you know, ....date?

It'll be harder to get the kids out to Little League if you live in the city. And more expensive to park the Midlife Crisis II Corvette.

Ok, this is largely turning into a waste of everyone's time. Signing off for now. I do thank the people who offered their advice and analysis today. I will review the entire thread to cull out all the valid points that were made, and go forward from there. If I have more pointed questions about prospective properties, I hope I can send them your way. Thanks again to everyone for weighing on this issue.

@Alan. I don't plan on having kids. Learn to read. Moving to the city to date has nothing to do with a mid-life crisis.

Maybe I'll just get a job in the city, sell my place, and move into the city permanently.

That is a good idea. As a single I can't imagine living in the burbs.

captive and w67..... zeperated at birth

> In 2003, I paid cash ($90k) for my 1BR co-op that is prob. worth $150k today.

A condo worth $150k? Where do you live, omaha? The ghetto?

> Only thing worse than a shitty studio is renting a bedroom from some old lady.
> How the F would that work? Com'on. Are you even thinking?

I'm miles ahead of you.

A friend rented an extra room from a photographer. So much extra ass hanging around that place.

> Ok, this is largely turning into a waste of everyone's time.

Probably because it turns out you don't know much yet won't listen to anyone.

> Sorry, but your suggestion borders on mental retardation.

Lesson for everyone on how to stay dumb... act like this guy, be ignorant, and slag the people smarter than you.

> Maybe I'll just get a job in the city, sell my place, and move into the city
> permanently. Idiot.

Well, you'd be less ignorant then.

> > You didn't in the beginning, either. Again, finance 101. Would really help you out a lot.

> Actually, I did.

No, you didn't. You keep saying you understand it, yet you make the same fundamental mistakes over and over again.

> You just didn't have a point that wasn't simply academic.

Yes, guilty. My points were accurate and academic.

Much preferable to your nonsensical logic that would have been improved by some.... academics.

> I already said that I don't view moving money from cash to real estate is a risk I need to get paid
> for

Yes, we know, you've been wrong on this since the beginning.

> b/c the risk (aka: vol) is symmetric.

And, again, a symmetric[al] risk is still a risk that gets compensated for good reason.

That you are willing to take a stupid deal doesn't mean its not wrong, and that it won't cost you.

> I could just as well walk away selling the place for $500k in a few years? Get it?

Yes, I still get that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Symmetrical risk is still risk.

Seriously, finance 101.

Would help you sort this all out!

> The numbers that are real here monthly outlay ($1300 vs $700) and oppty cost (0% cash).

Uh, sorry, another mistake.

$250k is a real number. The risk factor on RE is real.

That you ignore these numbers is only because you are ignorant.

But they're still gonna cost you!

> If you meant something else, then you could use a literacy 101 course.

suburban boy, time for some college for you!

alan, the feral suburbinites are a threat too, maybe you were on to something....