Converting a Jr 4 into a 2 bed, 2 bath in a Coop

You shouldn't be asking us - we can't answer your question.

You need to inquire withing your building as to what it allows, and what precedence there has been in the past for such changes. If you do go forward, you will also need to have your architect work with the building architect (or whomever the BoD tells your architect to work with) to apply and file for the appropriate city zoning and permits, which is quite a job in and of itself. A good place to start is by asking your neighbors if they know of anyone who has done this kind of work in the building in the past, and if so, chat with those who have. Or, you can hire a lawyer to comb through recent change orders to your building filed with the city to determine if anything has occured in the past comparable to the project you wish to undertake.

It's a building-by-building situation, and no one here can truly give the answer unless you tell us what your address is and someone reading your post also living in your building knowledgably replies.

I think most coop will say no. I have been through six coop renovations, and even for the basic stuff I had to go through a difficult process. What you are suggesting requires a lot of work and impact on the existing building structure. To create a toilet, you need access under the floor plumbing. You might have to ask you neighbor for permission to lower their celing. To move mechanics in a kitchen requires even more work with license electrician and plumber. I personally don't think it is cost efficient to do something like this. This could take 6 months to a year, and a lot of money. You are much better off buying a 2 bed/2 bath.

I know this is not nice and in hindsight - but to other posters - this is the type of thing you need to check up on BEFORE you purchase the apartment rather than after. . . .you may or may not be allowed.

And JimmyT's post really points towards valid reasons why. . .

Its not hindsight. I got a great deal on an apt that is almost 1000 sf. Its pretty amazing considering most brokers I talked to told me I could barely afford a straight studio! It is just me so I dont need a 2 bedroom. I was just thinking that it has the space and it would be worth so much more if I could convert it. The bathroom has a big space next to it that would fit another bathroom and I was thinking I could do something with the plumming because the bathrooms would be right next to eachother. I guess I will wait till I close and have different contractors come and take a look.

It's not just about your contractors. . .if you can't put wet over dry etc. . .you simply won't be allowed to do it.

But I am glad that you are flexible and dont necessarily need it to happen for the investment. Congrats on the good deal. I am a big fan of value!

great question and follow ups responses....

generally speaking, it's a matter of:

1. the co-op board rules / board approval / building engineer approval
2. the location of risers, air ducts, and electrical infrastructure - they are where they are for a reason
3. do you really want to raise your floor (if permittd) and lose ceiling height? - i've seen it done in manhattan - not pretty - may hurt re-sale value
4. is the kitchen bigger than the dining area? wont it make more sense just to put up a wall or french doors and enclose the dining area - does the dining area have a window and hvac?

just my 2 cents

- r

Hi Rudy,

generally speaking, it's a matter of:

3. do you really want to raise your floor (if permittd) and lose ceiling height? - i've seen it done in manhattan - not pretty - may hurt re-sale value
I've seen that too and its really ugly. I was thinking the 2nd bath could be right next to the first bath so if I can go thru the wall and get the plumbing that way, i might be able to do it without rising the floor.
4. is the kitchen bigger than the dining area? wont it make more sense just to put up a wall or french doors and enclose the dining area - does the dining area have a window and hvac? I don't think the kitchen is bigger. It's that the kitchen has a window. The dining area does not. So the kitchen would make a real bedroom, whereas if I enclosed the dining area with french doors, I could call it a den/study/library, but it is not a legal bedroom with a window. That's a possibility (if they dont let me put wet over dry I have to stick to the original floorplan) but I think I would rather just leave the space open that way, and maybe open up the kitchen too for a massive living/dining room (like a great room in manhttan).

just my 2 cents

hi op!

even if the room is adjacent, you would still most likely have to raise the floor for the toilet.

a room without a window is not a legal bedroom.

opening up the kitchen can make the space breath for sure. i've had some of my past clients incorporate this into their renovation plans and the results were fantastic.

it's really fun to think creatively about renovating a space, but sometimes, we have to remember that one day we will want to sell our home. that's the rub....

happy renovating :)

In addition to the window, are there other requirements for a "legal" bedroom? Does the distinction matter to buyers? I own a JR 4 with a windowed dining area. If I enclose it and call it a bedroom, won't buyers still consider it a Jr 4?

If there is no natural closet there etc. . .I think people would still view it as a Jr 4.

It also depends how it looks. Many converted apartments look like hodge podges. I think this would look good given that it is almost 1000 sf. I have seen apartments that are 750 sf converted and they just look ultra tiny and not like true 2 bedrooms. You can always build a closet if you have the square footage.

Mine's also almost 1000 sf. I've noticed that many Jr 4's (some without even a wall added let alone a closet) are listed on StreetEasy as 2 bedrooms. What's the real difference between a "legal" 2 bedroom and a converted Jr 4?

OP -- congratulations on your new place, your seem so excited. :) I'm curious as to how you were able to get this place when you say most brokers told you you'd be looking at studios. Did you change neighborhoods, or does your apartment need a gut renovation?