Apex Condominiums, 2300 FDB, Harlem

I will greatly appreciate any advice

Massive housing project going up next door. 2/3rds of 124th street btw 7th and 8th will be section 8 housing. I think its something like 200 units. I'm sure they will wecome their new upscale neighbors.

Thanks PH, how did you get this information?

It's public information. Abyssinian Development Corporation is the developer - it's been in the news. You need a good broker who works in Harlem?

I think Apex will be fine place to live. More people, mean more services and facilities. 200 more families should bring in a starbucks, a diner, restaurants, etc.

What is the pricing for these places? 2280 FDB still seems like a rip off.

2280 seem to be asking about 750 psf, Livmor is asking around 600 psf, while Apex seem to be asking around 550 psf, which is more realistic. I think 2280 FDB has to lower prices.
Do you know of a good broker?

There are no prices posted anywhere on this building. What is the source of your information?

For 550 psf, i could see the condos selling well. That price could be a catalyst for others to drop their prices. If I was the developer for 2280, I wouldn't want the next 40 buyers to walk across the street to by units with a competitor.

Norman Horowitz and Todd Stevens are two of the more significant brokers.

Compared to most of the condos on the FDB strip (and I think I've seen nearly all of them), 2280 has nicer finishes at a higher price point. It's a Lexus in a Toyota world, if you will.

Unfortunately for the developer, the buyers up on the strip seem to be Toyota buyers. However, I don't know if it's in their game plan to lower prices anytime soon.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

To pay more than $650 psf in Harlem (and I love Harlem) is foolish. But people do what people do.

Ali - have you seen Apex?

2280 can hold out for a while in a zero rate environment. If rates tick up, they pressure will build.

Ali as someone who looked at 2280, part of the problem is there are no amenities and also the parking leaves something to be desired. They have an elevator that takes your car down, there is no lobby entrance so you are stuck outside, etc. They just seem to charge a hell of a lot for not so much in return. Sure they have higher end appliances in the kitchen, but is that worth so much more? Judging from the fact that all these buildings started sellin around the same time and 2280 is not really selling well, it tells you something.

PH, I have not seen Apex; what do you think?

Mikev, good point on the parking; the customers I visited 2280 with don't have cars.

And don't get me wrong; I like the building you ended up in quite a lot!

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

I sent Apex an email and never got a response. Must be so easy to sell condos in harlem that you don't need to respond to inquiries.

Does having 2/3rds of your block as an 8 story section 8 housing project impact value? Does this also impact 2280?

I know the TH owners on 123rd and 124th are mad as heck. Clearly this is not becuase this is going to improve the block / values.

do you have a link to the apex listings

No listings yet. USW27 is probably the in-house broker, perhaps she / he can provide them.

I am not the in-house broker :)
I visited all the condos in the neighborhood last week. I agree that the finishes at 2280 FDB are much nicer than other condos in the area, not sure if it is worth paying so much more. If 2280 FDB can match prices at Apex (don't see that happening), I would prefer it over other condos in the area. Ali and PH, you seem to be very familiar with the area, which condos seem most cost-effective to you?

I'm looking for a TH, actually. I have not viewed any condos. If you want to know what is priced best, just look at how many deals are closing. Markets vote with their feet...

I'm considering buying a 2 bedrooms in this area and would like some advices/feedbacks.
SQF at the APEX seems the best value but C.C/maintenances start at $1,700/month!!!
What are your thoughts on the DOUGLASS and the 2280FDB?

Carrying charges are excessive and will prohibit sales there despite very favorable pricing.

Sales agent mentioned they are working on these charges... Let's wait and see.
Would you agree that the Douglass seems to offer the best deal ?

how do they work on charges? Either you cut amenities, doorman hours if there is one, etc. There is nothing you can do for fixed costs of running the building. Also keep in mind that a lot of times these amounts go up, not down, as they are budgets based on expectations of a building that has never been operated before.

What exactly are you looking for, to say what is the best deal? Asked in anoter thread did you look at the other condos in the area of douglass, ie parc standard, livmor and soha118, also there is the fitzgerald.

correct: she mentioned they might cut the doorman hours (instead of 24h). But still $1700 is crazy.

I answered in the other thread. I haven't seen the fitzgerald. Thanks Mikev, I'll have a look.

Lets see: on a block with massive housing project, high-end condos, no doorman past midnight... Somethings don't add value...

I was given a much lower maintenance figure by the sales agent. $ 1700 is crazy. I like 2280 if they come down on the price.

Again, if they lower to between $500 and $600 psf they will sell. Higher and it will take a very long time.

The fitzgerald is worse re: maintainence versus services. That is NOT an option. Fitz has part time doorman, no valet, no gym, no common outdoor space, yet charges maintainence far above most full service condos in harlem (see 5thonthePark for comparison - totally full service, including pool, for half the monthly.)

Just visited the Apex (2 bedrooms). Very nice apts, lots of large windows, good finishes and layouts.
Parking spot is $75K, storage room is $20K!!
But the big dealbreaker is the Maint/C.c going from $1700 to $1900 (for the 2bedrooms). Agent mentioned again that it should come down...
I liked 2280FDB but yes, still too expensive. 43% is sold though.

Also 15 year tax w/421A for the APEX versus 25 years for the other dev. Not sure why?

those prices for parking and storage are crazy. the douglass was asking 50k which i thought was high, but storage was free. that is the one thing wish the livmor had, storage that is.

as to abatement i think at some point rules changed or possibly they only qualified for the 15 year abatement. I know the rules state how you qualify for what.

Until they adjust the maintenance at Apex, they will be tough to sell. They are just too out of whack.

Didn't 2280 have some lottery units? I don't believe 43% have paid at the prices they are asking. But there are suckers out there.

yes it is possible they are including the lottery units. 2280 just makes no sense to me with no amenities, but that is just me.

Apex never saw but i will agree that if their maintenance is so high it will be a tough sell.

We saw the 2 br apts and they're nice. However, we cannot figure out the common charges. They're asking for over $1900 for a building with a part time doorman and a small gym shared by the hotel. I have friends paying $1000 for a full time doorman/gym in a more expensive part of Manhattan (similar # of units in the building) so I can't figure out where that additional money is going. I'm concerned that it's being used to subsidize the Hotel in some manner, thought the realtor said that was not the case. No developer would ever OVERestimate the common charges knowing the property will be harder to sell, so something doesn't add up. I don't know much about the condo/hotel combination and would love to hear other's thoughts on the pro's/con's of this combination as well as their thinking on the common charges.

I have also given up on Apex till I find out more about their high maintenance charges. I like 2280, but they are not willing to negotiate even a little. I would buy it if they agreed to 650 psf. I guess I will wait for another stock market crash :(

Yup, the common charges are a killer here. Who, in their right mind, would purchase a unit with the existing common charges?? 2280 will sit until they realize we are in a deep recession.