Fake Buyer & Offer - ethical? Illegal?

life is way too short.

find a similar unit for a similar price and stop payment on your check.

since you're waiting, they see no reason why they should jump on your contract.

give them x days to sign or return the contract. this way you will not be in limbo.

ny re is unethical. until both parties signed, there's never a deal. a few months back, my friends had a buyer that had 3-4 contracts sent to them while they were discussing which one to buy. they then back dated the contract to get their $8K on a $400K contract.

If i could find a similar unit for a similar price - I certainly would. But it's just not out there.

Until they hand you a counter-signed contract, both you and they can do whatever you like. If I were you, I would tell them / have my lawyer tell them, "Look, I'd really like to buy the place, but it doesn't look like you're serious about selling it. If not, that's fine, it's your perogative. However, if you are actually interested in selling the place, send me the counter-signed contract in 24 hours. If you do not do so by that deadline, I revoke my signature on the contract and consider it void and expect my check to be returned immediately."

FYI, a little theory of mine: unethical people put up with interacting with other unethical people. Ethical people tend to walk and find an ethical alternative.

"If i could find a similar unit for a similar price - I certainly would. But it's just not out there."

You should treat this deal as if it's not "out there" either. Heard the anecdote about the lamb chops, ya? Guy goes into a butcher shop, where they're selling lamb chops for $12 a pound. He says, "But the other butcher shop sells it for $6!". Butcher says, "Why don't you buy it there?" Guy says, "Because they don't have any."

Ha. I'm familiar with the Lamb Chops saying. And If I could raise my offer, I would. Has anyone ever done what I've described? it seems underhanded - but what's NOT underhanded about NY real estate?

You had nothing until there was a signed contract.

Nada's approach is good. If you really like the place, wait 10 business days and if they're not in contract, offer $833K and give them 48 hours on that.

truthskr10,

that's good advice and a decent idea - in terms of decreasing my offer over time. Might scare them into signing while the other buyer figures out they're probably unqualified.

A

Well thing is if the other offer's legit, your already in the situation anyway, and though I sometimes think the way you do in certain situations, acting on it is another manner (HIGHER offer other party idea).

Anyway, after 10 business days, if it's not in contract with the other party,there are likely issues with the other party and you coming back and with 2% less says A) your ready to close and B) your not going to pay more.
But I would Inonada's suggestion first, then this, 10 biz days later.

You may have enticed the sponsor to be a dick by spending ahead on inspection,etc. signaling your on a hook.

Never doing anything you don't have to until you have a signed contract.

First of all, you did nothing wrong, but you can't force the sponsor to sign the contract if they don't choose to do so.

Your options are either to walk away immediately, give them a certain number of days deadline or to wait indefinitely - your option.

Buying RE in NYC isn't a simple financial transaction in many cases. All kinds of games are going on and it can be very annoying. I try (often unsuccessfully) to look at these transactions from the seller's point of view since I'm a buyer, but the process is frustrating.

It's not that hard, really. You can pretty easily tell if someone is really interested in doing a deal with you, or if they are considering you along with others and maybe will shop your deal around to others. When you are in the latter situation, acknowledge it to yourself and the other party. Tell them that they are being non-committal, and that you will proceed as if there is no agreement on terms for the deal (because there isn't). No big deal, you're just calling it like it is. If they are interested in doing an actual deal at a later date, you'd happy to re-open discussion and terms with them at that point in time.

If they move, great. If they don't, say adios politely and let them know they should feel welcome to contact you later should you still be in the market. If they later come back, use this and their non-committal behavior as leverage. For example, you could say "Well, you obviously couldn't find anyone else to pay as high as I was willing to pay in all this time. Obviously, my bid was too high, I didn't know what I was doing. I'm probably being an idiot, as the next guy was probably 4% lower, but I'll deal at 2% lower." If you do come to terms, at whatever discount or not, then use their non-committal behavior as reason for requiring that they adhere to a tight timeline.

Just to clarify from my earlier response - IMO you did nothing wrong by inspecting the apartment before the contract was signed. Many consider that spending money prematurely, but I see nothing wrong with inspecting an apartment at any point in the process if you want and the seller permits, especially a new development. Spending $500 on an inspection doesn't seem like a lot of money to me when you consider that apartments in NYC cost so much. Even if you end up paying for 2 or 3 inspections, IMO, it would be worth it if you end up with the right apartment.

It's important to look at these RE transactions as between you and the seller and not worry about real or possible other buyers beyond your control. Do your part correctly and eventually things will work out with an apartment.

Well said, my bright red friend.

I am not sure that ethics and negotiations are correlated. I recently was in a similar situation on a piece of land. I gave an offer with 72 hours and was told that the owner is away for 2 weeks. I told the broker that my offer is withdrawn and can not be use for shopping the property around. Two weeks later they came back interested in pursuing the deal. I lost interest. If they have another higher offer you already lost the deal. Taking "revenge" by sending a friend with a bogus offer will not help because psychologically they will be convinced that the apartment has a higher value than what you offered. If they do not have a higher offer, and do not believe that they can make another 20K by waiting a month, they will come back, But it is clear that they are not there and feel that the apartment has a higher value than your offer. Sending someone to raise the offer is self defeating.

Thanks inonada, your suggestions to the OP were excellent. I do hate my streeteasy name - it was a poor choice.

I disagree, it was a great and colorful choice.

I agree with Nada - your name is cheerful and memorable. It's a great choice!

Jimmy:

1. I agreee with the posters who've said that sending in a shill to make a higher offer
could lead the seller to conclude rthat your offer is too low.

2. what I would do - and have done in similar circumstances - is to have my shill call to see
if the property ti still available, and at what price

3. the answers your shill gets could tell you a great deal about your seller's tru state of
mind and intentions

Until you have a signed contract, nothing is binding. Having said that, most reputable developers take a property off the market once you and they agree on a price. On a related note, don't believe the developer that there is another offer. I can't tell you how many times I would make an offer and have a broker tell me there is another bidder who will pay more. When I said I wasn't interested in raising my bid, the broker would call me back 2 weeks late and say the other bidder backed out. Must have happened at least 7 times over the course of a year. Making up another bidder with a higher offer is a trick that sleazy brokers use (and far too many of them are sleazy).